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OK, the time has come...

post #1 of 15
9/18/08 at 8:01am
Thread Starter 
I have $2500 to buy an LCD and I would like a 52" Sony. I've narrowed it down to the following:

52XBR4
52W4100
52XBR6
46Z4100

Here's my reasoning:

52XBR4 is arguably the best LCD last year. From what I've read there have been a couple of issues, but nothing really too frustrating.

52W4100 is a great TV and used to have the sprkles issue but now that's been fixed. Still not as great as the 46Z4100, but pretty close.

52XBR6 - from what I've read has been a disappointment and is really just a 52" Z that is overpriced.

46Z4100 is a great TV as well, and the sparkle issues have been resolved, but the largest is 46".

Should I get the XBR4 because it's still the best TV on the market, or are the problems it has cause for serious concern?

Should I get the W4100 even if it's not as great as the Z4100?

Should I save money and get the real 52" Z4100 that is the XBR6?

Or should I just get the Z4100 and be done with it?

Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 15
9/18/08 at 10:06am
Thread Starter 
Anybody?
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post #3 of 15
9/18/08 at 10:22am
XBR4
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I bought a 52XBR4 last year. The ghosting gives me headache when watching 1080i material. People also reported smearing of colors with the set. Although some people don't have either of this issue. I can't say who's right or not, I can only say the ghosting was a deal breaker for me (gave me major headche, returned the TV).

Z4100
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Did some eyeballing in it at stores, doesn't look much different than W4100 except the bezel size (not calibrated probably). Since it only comes at 46", i'd say skip it unless it provides a significant difference in picture quality (which from what I've read, does not). Personally I would sacrifice a bit of picture quality for size (unless that PQ quality is huge of course). I.e.: I would get a 50" Sony XBR4 (assuming there is such a size) over a 52 Sharp D64.

XBR6
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Can't comment on it as it's not out yet so can't do a comparison. You can't buy based on spec and numbers. They are deceiving. Choose what looks good in your eyes. If you can wait, wait until 52XBR6 come out.

W4100
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If you can't wait for XBR6, between 46Z4100, 52XBR4, and 52W4100, I personally chose 52W4100. Better blacks, much better motion handling then 52XBR4, $400 cheaper than Z4100. XBR4 does have better picture detail/sharpness, but it's a slight difference. The 52W4100 is a good balance between PQ, size, and price for me. Keep in mind I own this set so i might be biased. But this set looks pretty close to the sets mentioned in my eyes, with the best price point I want.
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post #4 of 15
9/18/08 at 11:46am
Are you absolutely set on Sony? They are overpriced in my opinion. Why don't you look at the Samsung 52" 630. This is comparable to the w4100. The 630 def. has better colors than the 4100 and would be a lot cheaper.
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post #5 of 15
9/18/08 at 11:56am
I'm comparing the same models. The last of the XBR4/5 stock is dwindling and prices are coming down slightly. It may be a great time to snag on of the best TVs around before the crazy XBR7/8 prices.

However, I'm waiting until I can see the XBR6 and see what the prices do ON or AFTER Black Friday. I would buy a Z, but I also want 52".
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post #6 of 15
9/18/08 at 12:02pm
SONY XBR4 is the best out of those.
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post #7 of 15
9/18/08 at 12:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cram10 View Post

Are you absolutely set on Sony? They are overpriced in my opinion. Why don't you look at the Samsung 52" 630. This is comparable to the w4100. The 630 def. has better colors than the 4100 and would be a lot cheaper.

I cannot stand that TOC those sets have. Plus I game a lot and I've heard that Sammy's aren't as responsive when gaming.
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post #8 of 15
9/18/08 at 12:17pm
Thread Starter 
What about the reported clouding and smearing issues? I've also read that a black line will all of the sudden show up 3 months after purchase and you'll need to replace the entire panel. I don't want to deal with that.
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post #9 of 15
9/18/08 at 12:46pm
Clouding - any LCD could have this issue. Some have it worse, most have it, but not noticeable with the right settings.

In regards to XBR4 being best of the bunch. If you are referring to picture detail - yes, but not by much. Ghosting and smearing was definitely a problem for the set that I returned. From memory the difference between XBR4 and W4100 is slight in picture detail, but W4100 has better black levels. Some people in the XBR4 owner's thread have reported problem free set. I can only speak from my experience.

For the people who's suggesting XBR4 (or any models) - please explain why you are suggesting XBR4 over the choice that he has. "XBR4 is the best" hardly gives any insight to why he should pick it over the rest of the models mentioned.

Sony being overpriced - The W4100 same ball park as the A750. I'm using Amazon's price as a reference. If you have a store that have a Samsung A750 on sale but Sony's at a regular price, then yes Sony will be overpriced. But judging by the prices on the web, the A750 and W4100 is close in term of cost.

Again the I'm suggesting W4100 because:

1) Much better motion handling than the XBR4, with only a very slight bit of difference in terms of PQ. If you still have doubts regarding the difference between the 2, read up on the posts for the people who have compared the 2 sets. I'm suggesting based on my memory of XBR4 vs what I am seeing now in my living room.

2) Z is only 46". If you want 46" and price isn't an issue, by all means go for it. Otherwise, 52" W4100 as the reported PQ difference isn't great, and I would rather have 6 more inches than minimal PQ difference. Also save a few bills. Some people tell you 10 bit panel is better, but that 's very subjective (if your eye can tell the difference) and depends on the source (I don't think any standard source has the 10 bit color yet, except may be some high end equipment). Again, size vs PQ in this regard. You have to judge how big of a PQ gain the Z has over W4100. From what I've read, it's minimal.

3) XBR6 - wait for in depth feed back from people on this forum, then ask to see if anyone has owned the mentioned sets in order to give to a comparison. Otherwise, buy it and do the comparison yourself. Random people off the web giving you 1 line advice since they saw it at the store (not calibrated) for 5 minutes won't be too helpful.

4) Again I own this set so I may be biased, so read up as much info as possible regarding these sets.
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post #10 of 15
9/18/08 at 1:14pm
The XBR4 has better processing/scaling for non-1080p sources (480i, 720p, 1080i, etc...) If those don't matter to you that much then the W4100 is very nice, crisp, and good blacks.

I'm also worried about future-proofing my $2.5K - $3K investment. The Z and XBR6 are a bit more future proof in terms of x.v.Color, DeepColor, WCG backlight (XBR6). But you can still enjoy a current-generationg TV without those things. But if it's a matter of an extra $500 to hold me over a few more years, then I'll wait a little bit.
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post #11 of 15
9/18/08 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MintChocolate View Post

Clouding - any LCD could have this issue. Some have it worse, most have it, but not noticeable with the right settings.

In regards to XBR4 being best of the bunch. If you are referring to picture detail - yes, but not by much. Ghosting and smearing was definitely a problem for the set that I returned. From memory the difference between XBR4 and W4100 is slight in picture detail, but W4100 has better black levels. Some people in the XBR4 owner's thread have reported problem free set. I can only speak from my experience.

For the people who's suggesting XBR4 (or any models) - please explain why you are suggesting XBR4 over the choice that he has. "XBR4 is the best" hardly gives any insight to why he should pick it over the rest of the models mentioned.

Sony being overpriced - The W4100 same ball park as the A750. I'm using Amazon's price as a reference. If you have a store that have a Samsung A750 on sale but Sony's at a regular price, then yes Sony will be overpriced. But judging by the prices on the web, the A750 and W4100 is close in term of cost.

Again the I'm suggesting W4100 because:

1) Much better motion handling than the XBR4, with only a very slight bit of difference in terms of PQ. If you still have doubts regarding the difference between the 2, read up on the posts for the people who have compared the 2 sets. I'm suggesting based on my memory of XBR4 vs what I am seeing now in my living room.

2) Z is only 46". If you want 46" and price isn't an issue, by all means go for it. Otherwise, 52" W4100 as the reported PQ difference isn't great, and I would rather have 6 more inches than minimal PQ difference. Also save a few bills. Some people tell you 10 bit panel is better, but that 's very subjective (if your eye can tell the difference) and depends on the source (I don't think any standard source has the 10 bit color yet, except may be some high end equipment). Again, size vs PQ in this regard. You have to judge how big of a PQ gain the Z has over W4100. From what I've read, it's minimal.

3) XBR6 - wait for in depth feed back from people on this forum, then ask to see if anyone has owned the mentioned sets in order to give to a comparison. Otherwise, buy it and do the comparison yourself. Random people off the web giving you 1 line advice since they saw it at the store (not calibrated) for 5 minutes won't be too helpful.

4) Again I own this set so I may be biased, so read up as much info as possible regarding these sets.

+1 as I had the same XBR4 experience, not a recommended set
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post #12 of 15
9/18/08 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopin952 View Post

The XBR4 has better processing/scaling for non-1080p sources (480i, 720p, 1080i, etc...) If those don't matter to you that much then the W4100 is very nice, crisp, and good blacks.

I'm also worried about future-proofing my $2.5K - $3K investment. The Z and XBR6 are a bit more future proof in terms of x.v.Color, DeepColor, WCG backlight (XBR6). But you can still enjoy a current-generationg TV without those things. But if it's a matter of an extra $500 to hold me over a few more years, then I'll wait a little bit.

Thank you chopin952 for making a useful suggestion. I don't think the OP has mentioned whether he wants to buy now, or if he could wait (and by how long). Another thing to consider is price. Right now a 52XBR6 cost $3799 on Amazon. 52W4100 is around $2.3k to $2.4k. It will be at least a few more months before the 52XBR6 hit the 3k range. The extra features are not worth 50% of the cost 52W4100. If it is $3000 right now, I'd consider it. Otherwise, I'd rather save the $1.2k, and may be able to upgrade (or get another TV) sooner in the future. It's about Best of the Best VS What's good enough for you.

I for one couldn't wait any longer (been waiting since XBR4 came out), and in my eyes the extra features doesn't make up enough difference for me to justify paying close to full price for a XBR6 (unless you wait). If however you want to be more future proof, perhaps you shouldn't consider W4100 as it only has a 8 bit panel, without the CCFL backlight, etc. Just make sure you understand the difference in those features and what it meant to picture quality. Also understand that sometimes these features may or may not improve PQ in real world environment (marketing BS, misinformation, etc...) Also do a real world comparison first, if possible.

If you want to be the most future proof, I think you should be looking at XBR8 with the LED (if price isn't an issue). The Samsung A950 series looks pretty good too from reading those threads, if you like or can live with the glossy screen.
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post #13 of 15
9/18/08 at 1:59pm
First off, don't get a 46" set when you really want 52", period. The Z needs to be off your list completely, as the biggest mistake you can make is buying a set that's too small. If you really like the Z, then wait to see the 52" XBR6. I would not get the XBR4 since it's last year's technology and the W4100 only has an 8-bit panel.

If you're stuck on Sony, your best bet will be the 52" XBR6 or XBR7, but your price range will need to be more flexible.
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post #14 of 15
9/18/08 at 2:02pm
They have the Sony 52", 120hz, 10-bit panel, 24p at Costco for $200 off right now. Roughly comparible to the 52W4100, but Costco has its own unique model number. Total price is a couple hundred less than what you have in your hand to spend. You could buy that one and have a couple Ben Franklins left in your pocket.
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post #15 of 15
9/18/08 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEFF View Post

I have $2500 to buy an LCD and I would like a 52" Sony. I've narrowed it down to the following:

52XBR4
52W4100
52XBR6
46Z4100

Here's my reasoning:

52XBR4 is arguably the best LCD last year. From what I've read there have been a couple of issues, but nothing really too frustrating.

52W4100 is a great TV and used to have the sprkles issue but now that's been fixed. Still not as great as the 46Z4100, but pretty close.

52XBR6 - from what I've read has been a disappointment and is really just a 52" Z that is overpriced.

46Z4100 is a great TV as well, and the sparkle issues have been resolved, but the largest is 46".

Should I get the XBR4 because it's still the best TV on the market, or are the problems it has cause for serious concern?

Should I get the W4100 even if it's not as great as the Z4100?

Should I save money and get the real 52" Z4100 that is the XBR6?

Or should I just get the Z4100 and be done with it?

Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.

first, let me say i'm impressed with the 'quality' of this thread and the responses.

here's my less than stellar 2 cents.
i almost got the xbr4 but waited so long i figured i'd check out the newer models. imo xbr4 at this point is last year's model. last years's technology.

the xbr6 isn't even selling yet, so any 'disappointment' about it is based on pure conjecture at this point. also, the $3799 is the startMSRP and no one actually has them in stock yet.

i'm looking to get the best set that i can just barely not afford.

so that X's out the xbr8 as being too rich (i hope i don't find a way to justify those prices, anyway)

and so i'm waiting for the xbr6 - xbr7 shootout, with a faint, very faint, openmind to the top samsungs.

i suggest you go to www.sonystyle.com for the MSRPs, and amazon or one of the other onlines, including ccity and bbuy to get a handle on current prices. pricewise, the xbr4 is mostly discontinued, and prices are often actually higher than they were when selling fresh, although i have seen some deals. the w4100 and z4100 are quite mature in the market and available at healthy discount currently. the xbr6 is yet to hit the market at these sizes. (as an aside, there is also the 52" xbr7 which looks like the xbr6 but will be the first with 240Hz refresh rate; currently no msrp yet).

//TVbc
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