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Akira official release date JP + USA and details - Page 9

post #241 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rieper View Post

This movie looks awful for what the box art suggest is a "Newly REMASTERED for 1080p HD Blu-ray"... looks almost as bad as Ghost in the Shell.

Who cares about the audio when the image on the screen looks so mediocre.

IMO, it looks like an average DVD fed through a very good scaler (like the Toshiba XA2).

So dissapointed in this Blu-ray.

THIS is CRAZY talk. Nuff said.
post #242 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by poddie View Post

THIS is CRAZY talk. Nuff said.

Agreed. Especially since this is one of the few films to have a 5.1 192khz 24bit audio track. With the right equipment this movie sounds spectacular. And the video is great as well (no unnecessary DNR).
post #243 of 272
Akira: 25th Anniversary Edition was released today. Full review here.
post #244 of 272
I wasn't planning on picking this up since I have the 2009 release, but the review claims they fixed the window boxed presentation, so I guess I have to now. Dammit.
post #245 of 272
I am not sure my version IS picture boxed... I will have to check it out.(I really do not think it is)
if it is, this new version is a must buy.
post #246 of 272
The 2009 release by Bandai is window boxed. It also has a very enveloping 192 KHz, Dolby TrueHD Japanese soundtrack. The version released yesterday does not have the window boxing. I'm not sure if the 192 KHz Japanese soundtrack has been carried over or not.
post #247 of 272
According to the DVD Talk review the Anniversary Edition comes with a 5.1 DTS-HD/MA Japanese audio track versus the 2009 release's 2.0 and 5.1 Dolby TrueHD tracks. Hmm. I'll probably still get this for the Streamline dub (come on, how can you not love the Colonel?) and the lack of windowboxing...
post #248 of 272
Is the window boxing defeated by them zooming the old master, or was the old master simply scaled to feature umderscanning?
post #249 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill C. View Post

According to the DVD Talk review the Anniversary Edition comes with a 5.1 DTS-HD/MA Japanese audio track versus the 2009 release's 2.0 and 5.1 Dolby TrueHD tracks.

The blu-ray.com review says the 192kHz TrueHD track has been ported to the 25th anniversary release. The description on Amazon, which looks like it's ripped from the product copy, says it's there as well.
post #250 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

Is the window boxing defeated by them zooming the old master, or was the old master simply scaled to feature umderscanning?

Probably no way to know for sure, but if you look at the the screenshots of the 2009 release, the edges of the frame are fuzzy and soft. Indicates to me that they downscaled the master. We're dealing with animation though, and not very sharp animation at that, so the observable effect either way is probably nil.
post #251 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post

The blu-ray.com review says the 192kHz TrueHD track has been ported to the 25th anniversary release. The description on Amazon, which looks like it's ripped from the product copy, says it's there as well.

And the dvdtalk reviewer has responded to a post on Amazon confirming that the track is DTS-HD. I guess the only way to be sure is buy the disc. If I knew that the Japanese soundtrack was the same as the 192 KHz one from 2009 release, I would probably go for it.
post #252 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post

Probably no way to know for sure, but if you look at the the screenshots of the 2009 release, the edges of the frame are fuzzy and soft. Indicates to me that they downscaled the master. We're dealing with animation though, and not very sharp animation at that, so the observable effect either way is probably nil.

I would imagine the image quality is basically the same between the new release and the 2009 release (except for the slightly better colors on the new one both reviews mention). The new one will just be a little bit bigger on your screen.
post #253 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimV View Post

And the dvdtalk reviewer has responded to a post on Amazon confirming that the track is DTS-HD. I guess the only way to be sure is buy the disc. If I knew that the Japanese soundtrack was the same as the 192 KHz one from 2009 release, I would probably go for it.

It would be nice if the reviewer confirmed the frequency, because that's what really matters. If it's the same mix encoded using DTS, then it's fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimV View Post

I would imagine the image quality is basically the same between the new release and the 2009 release (except for the slightly better colors on the new one both reviews mention). The new one will just be a little bit bigger on your screen.

More than enough reason for me to upgrade. Window boxing is silly on modern displays, most of which have settings that eliminate overscan. Always bothered me on the 2009 release.
post #254 of 272


what am I going to get... MAYBE another .5% in image size???

hardly seems worth the effort even for a movie as important as Akira.
post #255 of 272
It was worth it for properly translated English subtitles, IMO.

But I do have the opinion, that the window-boxing on the 2009 release, (which I still own), was a non-issue. I can barely see it, even with over-scan disabled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rieper View Post

This movie looks awful for what the box art suggest is a "Newly REMASTERED for 1080p HD Blu-ray"... looks almost as bad as Ghost in the Shell.


Who cares about the audio when the image on the screen looks so mediocre.


IMO, it looks like an average DVD fed through a very good scaler (like the Toshiba XA2).


So dissapointed in this Blu-ray.
Back to Troll School, young fella.
Edited by raoul_duke - 11/14/13 at 2:28pm
post #256 of 272
The Blu-ray is Dolby TrueHD, not DTS-HD. They ported over the tracks. Detailed review here with a look at it in motion:
post #257 of 272
I found the picture quality to be great with no discernible DNR shenanigans. Excellent color rendition, great detail, and contrast looks well balanced, likely accurate to the source.
Also I am reasonably certain that this is a new master struck from the same transfer used for the 09 release and was not scaled from the 09 master to correct the window boxing.

Sound quality is where I greatly disagree with all positive reviews of the vaunted "Hypersonic" 192khz Japanese mix in that it suffers from excessive dynamic range compression resulting in an uninteresting loud and fatiguing audio experience.
The Pioneer 01 English dub provides a far more satisfying and enthralling dynamic audio journey. I would love to have a version with the Pioneer 5.1 mix using the original Japanese dialogue, that would be fantastic.

Disappointed that not all the extras from the Pioneer special edition were not ported to this release, along with the lack of the original 2.0 Japanese track. Would prefer it over the old rubbish original English dub.

Best Regards
KvE
Edited by KMFDMvsEnya - 11/17/13 at 4:31pm
post #258 of 272
Plus most AVR and processors can't apply Audyessy on 24/192 5.1 tracks.
post #259 of 272
so it's basically a straight port, minus the 2.0 HD track?
since I have owned and seen this movie in every release possible(including both the American and original Japanese theatrical release), I think I will keep my 2009 version.

dubbing is useless to me(I'd NEVER watch this movie in English) and subtitles are troublesome because I have read the comic series.
post #260 of 272
Does the 25th Anniversary Edition 192/24 Japanese Track still have the weird new audio changes in the soundtrack in some places?

The most jarring edit for me is the flashback scene after Kaneda beat up the school bullies and has a bloody nose and is talking to Tetsuo at the drinking fountain.

- The original soundtrack has a soft choir singing in the background.
- The new soundtrack has the pipe organ playing in the background.

Really changed the feeling of the scene. I preferred the old soundtrack.

The new soundtrack matches the Requiem track from the original soundtrack verbatim, so I'm guessing that the differently edited original cues weren't available for remaster but the soundtrack release materials were?

It's fun to see the Streamline Dub on there. For nostalgic purposes, that's actually the most interesting thing on this release for me.
post #261 of 272
I assume you mean the scene towards the end at the 1:55:30 mark.

Both the Pioneer 09 dub and the Streamline 88 dub each have the choir music instead of the pipe organ music.

It is interesting hearing the difference and I prefer the more intimate choral version since it serves as a dramatic contrasting prelude to the more grand music of the finale.

Unfortunately, I have not watched the film often enough to be as familiar in the variances found in the 192/24 Japanese mix versus the original Japanese track or the dubs.

Generally I prefer the original language of any film but there are times when dubs really are well executed and I find the Pioneer dub to be one of them; in addition to the superior sound quality and dynamics.
There is one difference that I like in the 192khz version and that is the opening Kaneda theme, when the gang is racing off into the city, in that the levels for the music are more elevated with more bass. Alas it is over done in the mix but it would have been nice in the Pioneer mix to have it a bit more forward, however their mixing prerogative was to be respectful to the original Japanese mix.

Best Regards
KvE
post #262 of 272
I found it weird, that in both dubs, during the scene where the Colonel and the scientists are coming off the elevator, heading into the cold storage bunker, one of the scientists is talking and gesturing as he does. He has dialogue in both dubs and while it'd be easy to say 'Yeah, it's a dub, they just added dialogue for the hell of it', it looks odd on the Japanese track, the fact that he says nothing. He's obviously talking.

This isn't an issue with the Funimation disc, BTW. The Bandai is identical. I've no idea if it's just a flaw with the original audio. Was it always like that?

Strange...
Edited by raoul_duke - 11/19/13 at 12:25pm
post #263 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill C. View Post

According to the DVD Talk review the Anniversary Edition comes with a 5.1 DTS-HD/MA Japanese audio track versus the 2009 release's 2.0 and 5.1 Dolby TrueHD tracks. Hmm. I'll probably still get this for the Streamline dub (come on, how can you not love the Colonel?) and the lack of windowboxing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

Does the 25th Anniversary Edition 192/24 Japanese Track still have the weird new audio changes in the soundtrack in some places?

The most jarring edit for me is the flashback scene after Kaneda beat up the school bullies and has a bloody nose and is talking to Tetsuo at the drinking fountain.

- The original soundtrack has a soft choir singing in the background.
- The new soundtrack has the pipe organ playing in the background.

Really changed the feeling of the scene. I preferred the old soundtrack.

The new soundtrack matches the Requiem track from the original soundtrack verbatim, so I'm guessing that the differently edited original cues weren't available for remaster but the soundtrack release materials were?

It's fun to see the Streamline Dub on there. For nostalgic purposes, that's actually the most interesting thing on this release for me.

The original Streamline dub is there? Thank GOD! I couldn't stand the Pioneer dub. It wasn't the Akira I grew up with; it just felt...off.
post #264 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

I assume you mean the scene towards the end at the 1:55:30 mark.

Both the Pioneer 09 dub and the Streamline 88 dub each have the choir music instead of the pipe organ music.

It is interesting hearing the difference and I prefer the more intimate choral version since it serves as a dramatic contrasting prelude to the more grand music of the finale.

Unfortunately, I have not watched the film often enough to be as familiar in the variances found in the 192/24 Japanese mix versus the original Japanese track or the dubs.

Yeah, it's the 192/24 that has all of the soundtrack changes. All of the others are the same. I completely agree with all of your other observations.
post #265 of 272
@chirpie: I've seen the movie enough times myself to notice some of the differences between the various dubs. I believe the changes made to the Bandai Hypersonic track were intentional--the scene in Tetsuo's memories when he first meets Kaneda does indeed have a different score to it, a later section of the soundtrack score piece "Requiem" that ultimately leads into the movie's grand climax.

One thing to bear in mind is that the audio production (in particular the music) was originally done with surround sound as the main goal, but that the technology of the 1980s did not permit that to be realized then. Naturally, going back in nearly 20~25 years later, the composer and the audio production staff would have wanted to make some changes, to fit their intended vision of what the movie should have sounded like. Personally, I think the score on the Hypersonic track fits a little better; of course, I also have the soundtrack score on CD, which I have heard many times, so I know where the music usually goes (or should go). The progression of "Requiem" used on the Hypersonic track seems more...well, I dare to say "sensible", but only because the track as a whole is so good in itself.

On a related note: Original music composer Shoji Yamashiro is also an audio technician in his own right with his own studio (this from the booklet from the Bandai first pressing of the Blu-ray), so he would have known what to do with his own work on the score. His decisions regarding the work on the Hypersonic track are, as I see it, quite sound, considering he designed the score for surround sound in the first place.

@KMFDMvsEnya: Can your receiver handle 192kHz/24-bit processing on all channels? That may be the reason you had such a problem with the Hypersonic track. If it sounds that bad, your receiver might not be handling it properly, if it's capable of doing so.
Edited by LineWalker - 11/19/13 at 6:54pm
post #266 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by LineWalker View Post

KMFDMvsEnya: Can your receiver handle 192kHz/24-bit processing on all channels? That may be the reason you had such a problem with the Hypersonic track. If it sounds that bad, your receiver might not be handling it properly, if it's capable of doing so.

It is possible but I do not believe it to be the case, the excessive compression was present when I watched the 09 disc on a friend's capable system as well, back when it was released and bothered me to no end then as well.
I am also pretty sure there is clipping in the track as well due to the hot mastering.

I agree that the organ music sounds completely valid to segue into the finale but I prefer the original choral providing a nice contrast.

Best Regards
KvE
Edited by KMFDMvsEnya - 11/24/13 at 2:11pm
post #267 of 272
I analyzed the Honneamise 2009 release and the 25th Anniversary Edition 2013 release.
Honneamise BDInfo
FUNimation 25th Anniversary BDInfo
Using eac3to tool, removed dialogue normalization (except for PCM track), decoded with libav/ffmpeg, encoding FLAC with libFLAC.
Used Dynamic Range Meter with flac files for Dynamics.
Audacity for wavforms. Clipping detection is on and marked as red vertical lines.
RAW/PCM 2.0 Japanese 2009 track has a constant bit depth of 16 bits

Wavform

Wavform dB


TrueHD 2.0 English Streamline original audio track has a constant bit depth of 18 bits

Wavform

Wavform dB


TrueHD 5.1 English 2013 track original audio track has a constant bit depth of 16 bits

Wavform

Wavform dB


TrueHD 5.1 Japanese 2013 track original audio track has a constant bit depth of 19 bits

Wavform

Wavform dB


TrueHD 5.1 Japanese 2009 track original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits

Wavform

Wavform dB


TrueHD 5.1 Japanese 2013 track decoded to PCM is about 3 times larger than TrueHD 5.1 English track, most likely due to the sampling rate (192k vs 96k)
TrueHD 5.1 Japanese 2009 track (Hypersonic) decoded to PCM is about 3 times larger than TrueHD 5.1 English track. The Japanese 2009 5.1 track is only 10 MB larger than the Japanese 2013 5.1 track, after decode to PCM. The dynamic range is about the same between the 2009 and 2013 tracks.
post #268 of 272
Had a feeling 16bit vs 24 bit meant very little in an era of lossless compression.
post #269 of 272
Outputting the Japanese TrueHD track as PCM seemed to have made the audio more palatable and it sounds closer to what it should be with some actual bass to it but it is still not as good as the other 5.1 tracks, including the Japanese 5.1 Dolby Digital track. A 24-bit 96khz 5.1 Dolby TrueHD track - one each for English and Japanese - would have been a better offering for Blu-Ray since that could processed properly by today's audio equipment.
post #270 of 272
anyone have direct screen cap comparisons?
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