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Akira official release date JP + USA and details - Page 3

post #61 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by paku View Post

And by that you mean more releases that waste huge amounts of bits and space, that could have gone to actually improve video quality, on completely useless 192kHz tracks? No thanks.

The video bitrate is 20mbps, still higher than 90% of Warners releases
post #62 of 272
I'm very happy with this release, but I also would've preferred the space gone to improve the video quality. I have a very decent setup, at least above average I'd say, and I notice very little difference between the 192khz track and the English True HD track. Seems kind of pointless. The video quality seems to vary greatly.

Still though, a very good release... especially compared to other anime releases (original Ghost in the Shell, etc.)
post #63 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by paku View Post

And by that you mean more releases that waste huge amounts of bits and space, that could have gone to actually improve video quality, on completely useless 192kHz tracks? No thanks.


My point also. Extremly stupid according to me.
post #64 of 272
I can't believe anyone is complaing about this... This is not HD-DVD (no flames please). Blu-Ray has a 48mb/s datarate(!), with 8mb/s dedicated to audio and 40 to video. That means if you do not use 8mb/s for audio, you can't re-use it for video, then you can call it 'wasted'... Now granted, Akira probably uses quite a bit more than the 8mb/s dedicated audio-bandwitdth. My guess Is that the Japanese True-HD track alone probably uses between 8~13 mb/s. (I can agree though that the PCM stereo was kind of unnecessary, they could've used True-HD) But then again, the video-bitrate on Akira is far away from bit-starved, the average bit-rate is about 20mb/s! That's more than most WB titles... I haven't seen any reviews that claim compression artifacts. In fact, the screenshots I've seen looks far better than I anticipated. I was afraid they were going to use the 2000 HD-Remaster as source (which had EE from hell). Any 'problems' people might percieve in regards to the video, is probably related to the source and not the bitrate of the video.

Now, 192khz 24-bit lossless might seem like overkill. Especially since the average home Hi-Fi equipment (or high-end equipment for that matter), can't really do it justice, neither can't most people tell the difference between 48khz and 96, let alone 192. But I admire the balls Bandai have to push the format to it's limit. That's great. The bar should be high, if you went by what most people could discern of differences in a blind-test, then most studios wouldn't use lossless tracks at all, DD 448kbit would be 'good enough'. Just like the saying that 192khz MP3 is as "good as CD"...

For the Special Feature fanatics; I don't agree that Bandai should have compromised the audio-tracks or video-track to make space for Extra Features. If they had prepared any Special features, they should have thrown it on a second disc, a dvd even, just like Pioneer did with the US Tin-box release in 2000. And if you like me, allready own the old tin-box release, just get yourself a two-disc Blu-Ray cover and place it together with the Blu-Ray, voila, now you have a 2-Disc Special Edition


Btw, I found these pictures among some old DVD-Audio discussion documents which I downloaded some years ago. They show how different sampling-rates look on a oscilloscope when compared to the original signal. The first picture is the orignal 10khz Square noise signal which is almost impossible to represent properly as a sine-wave. The second picture is how the wave looks when sampled as a 44khz redbook CD. The third picture shows the same signal encoded to DVD-Audio at 96khz, and finally the last picture shows the signal encoded as 192khz DVD-Audio.

post #65 of 272
We understand that there are peaks, but if the audio is using a lot of space, they might have to fit the video in a smaller space, and that could limit its average bitrate. If the audio is actually using more than 8Mbps, you're limiting the peaks for video.

It's not just a case of not doing the audio justice. I could understand people complaining if their receivers can't play the track at all due to the sampling rate. This isn't a title I was going to buy, but if it was, I would have to settle for Dolby Digital or stereo because my receiver can't play the multichannel lossless Japanese track. I realize this isn't a cheap hobby, but I think a lot of people who bought a new receiver for lossless audio a year or two ago would roll their eyes at the idea of upgrading yet again.

It's not the disc producers' fault about the receivers, but they should have included a TrueHD multichannel Japanese track at 48khz. If that didn't leave enough room for a 192khz track, I think a 96khz track would be (God help me) "good enough."
post #66 of 272
The combined bitrate of the audio tracks has on average lowered the peak video bitrate from 40 to 30 Mbps. You're right, in this case the DNR is a far bigger problem than the bitrate. However it still seems like a very poor trade-off, throwing away something that could and is actually used, for what is essentially nothing but an enlarged e-peen. I'm hoping it doesn't catch on, though I don't think it will.
post #67 of 272
I for one appreciate the fact that they put so much effort into making the audio the best they could make it.

I think they should have included a second special features disc that includes the features that were on the special edition DVD release, but they have done a great job with the main release.
post #68 of 272
Those pics are FAR from the truth! You can reproduce a 10 khz signal with 44.1 without a problem, if you say something else, well, the Noble prize is waiting for your result.
post #69 of 272
I haven't seen the video off this release yet, but wouldn't it stand to reason that animation - no matter how sophisticated it is - should be vastly less demanding of video bitrate than live video or film should be? Even complex hand-drawn animation still principally consists of static or minimally moving backgrounds, fewer colors and large fields of the same color (compared to live action, where even in a still shot there is still a tremendous amount of minor movement and a nearly infinite number of colors). I'd think if we have plenty of great looking transfers of live video/film clocking in at an average of 17-21 mbps, then there's no reason you shouldn't be able to have an animated feature look great in that vicinity.
post #70 of 272
You would think that but then Warner's release of Gotham Knight would prove you wrong, man that thing has issues. And it's all from top anime studios.
post #71 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

Those pics are FAR from the truth! You can reproduce a 10 khz signal with 44.1 without a problem, if you say something else, well, the Noble prize is waiting for your result.

Nobody's claiming you can't. You're reading what you want into it. You can clearly see that the timeframe given is between ~7 and ~29 microseconds (a microsecond is a millionth of a second) Logically the higher sampling rate you have, the more pin-points you'll have, to draw the line or the waveform, hence the "higher resolution" or more "detail", or whatever you want to call it. Just like when you have those childrens books with connect-the-dots where you draw a straight line from one point to another and ends up with a drawing of a cat or something. The more dots you have, the more detailed curves the drawing ends up with. Btw, I did not make those charts, I believe they were made by Craig Anderson of DVD-Audio. They are however not controversial, you can find many examples of resolution changes with higher sampling rate, see f.ex the charts on this sacd page;
http://www.sacd.co.nz/dsd2.php
..or you can make a 192 khz and a 44khz sample in CoolEdit or Goldwave and zoom, zoom and zoom into the wave-for until your arm gets tired and look at the difference.

Now, If you can actually hear a difference is a completely different matter...

Btw, as a fellow scandinavian, I'd like to point out that your countryman is named Alfred Nobel, and not Noble... Just teasing, I don't intend this to be a harsh post I can see why some might find the images misleading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGonk View Post

I haven't seen the video off this release yet, but wouldn't it stand to reason that animation - no matter how sophisticated it is - should be vastly less demanding of video bitrate than live video or film should be? Even complex hand-drawn animation still principally consists of static or minimally moving backgrounds, fewer colors and large fields of the same color (compared to live action, where even in a still shot there is still a tremendous amount of minor movement and a nearly infinite number of colors). I'd think if we have plenty of great looking transfers of live video/film clocking in at an average of 17-21 mbps, then there's no reason you shouldn't be able to have an animated feature look great in that vicinity.

I would also think so. An anime release with 20mb average bitrate should look good (as long as the master is fine that is). What I have seen so far of the Akira screenshots and read in the various reviews seem to indicate that it's a good release indeed. I'm a bit worried though, about the talk of dnr in a couple of scenes. I have to wait until I get the disc myself to make a just evaluation.
post #72 of 272
This isn't coming out in Best Buy Canada or Futureshop Canada. Anybody know if this is coming out in Canada at all?
post #73 of 272
Has anyone received their copy from Amazon yet today? Mine shipped yesterday and is due to arrive today. I just wanted to make sure I'm going to get the first pressing with the book and slipcase. Thanks.
post #74 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazz063 View Post

Hi guys, I have just received Akira but am having an audio playback problem.

I am playing it on a Panasonic BD30 running via HDMI into a Marantz SR7002 AVR.

The problem I am having is with getting 5.1 audio on the Japanese track, I should be getting:

Japanese: Dolby TrueHD 5.1
Japanese: PCM 2.0
English: Dolby TrueHD 5.1
Japanese: Dolby Digital 5.1

but am getting:

Japanese: Dolby TrueHD 2.0
Japanese PCM 2.0
English: TrueHD 5.1
Japanese: Dolby Digital 5.1

Is anyone else having a similar problem?
I am wondering if it is maybe player FW related.

I get this as well, except I only get Dolby Digital 2.0. My receiver is a Denon 3808, so it's not an issue with the receiver (since someone else said he got it right with that receiver). Clearly, the fault is in the Panasonic.

I can't believe that it's incapable of bitstreaming a 192 kHz track...decode I can understand, but bitstreaming bypasses the decoding and mixing circuitry. Looks like I'll have to wait for the Oppo to come out...
post #75 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

I would have been shocked if a film as old as Akira could look as good as the newest, shiniest, digital-domain only HD native anime releases. Such as, for example, Code Geass.

As it is, if they can make it look better than the original Ghost in the Shell, then they are also exceeding expectations for cel-based anime of that vintage.

You are just twisting my words here.

And why are you comparing to gits for some reason. That's not the only cell anime out there.
post #76 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by conceptz View Post

This isn't coming out in Best Buy Canada or Futureshop Canada. Anybody know if this is coming out in Canada at all?

I'm curious about that as well conceptz. I haven't seen it listed anywhere in Canada, except on Amazon.ca. It's unfortunate that Amazon.com added the "import" fee, otherwise ordering from the US (even after conversion) would be a better deal, considering the price difference. Perhaps somewhere like HMV will be stocking it, although I'd imagine it will probably be a great deal more expensive than the already high $44.95 that Amazon.ca wants for it...
post #77 of 272
Well I just picked up Akira and when I try to listen to the TrueHD Japanese track I get a ton of static in all my speakers. I'm using a Panasonic BD30 and a Pioneer Elite 92TXH receiver that is capable of playing bitstreamed TrueHD.

Anyone else have a similar issue?
post #78 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

I would have been shocked if a film as old as Akira could look as good as the newest, shiniest, digital-domain only HD native anime releases. Such as, for example, Code Geass.

As it is, if they can make it look better than the original Ghost in the Shell, then they are also exceeding expectations for cel-based anime of that vintage.

HDTV anime including Code Geass are almost never actually animated at full 1080p resolution, they are usually around 720p (with varying resolutions including 960x540) and are upscaled for broadcast and Blu-ray. Even some theatrical anime are animated at around these resolutions.

A properly mastered handpainted cel anime Blu-ray will always look sharper than these, unless the master is based on a 16mm film transfer or other such limitation. Hell, the Blu-rays for Code Geass R2 reportedly look even softer than those for the 1st season.
post #79 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by BdoUK View Post

Well I just picked up Akira and when I try to listen to the TrueHD Japanese track I get a ton of static in all my speakers. I'm using a Panasonic BD30 and a Pioneer Elite 92TXH receiver that is capable of playing bitstreamed TrueHD.

Anyone else have a similar issue?

Yes, read back a few more threads.
Already a couple of us and counting....
post #80 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsguy View Post

Yes, read back a few more threads.
Already a couple of us and counting....

I saw a few people had the same issue but with different equipment. Was looking to see if anyone ran into the issue with a Pioneer receiver and Panasonic BD player.
post #81 of 272
Whew. Got the disc today, gave it a spin, and my player-receiver setup handled it perfectly. My fears, though justified, have been trounced.

I also discovered that the Japanese Dolby 5.1 track is indeed selectable through the English menu. I thought I had read in one review that it was only an option in the Japanese setup, but it seems I was wrong about that. Not that I needed to hear it--I accessed the Japanese TrueHD track just fine. Fairly immersive, it was.
post #82 of 272
Yeah, no playback issues running a PS3 with HDMI to a NAD T175. Definitely engulfed in sound with this disc.
post #83 of 272
Not working right for me with a PS3 and an H/K 247. You can hear everything except there's no center channel resulting in no dialogue. Shows up as 2-channel stereo on the receiver even though you can hear the surrounds, it's weird.

It sounds so much more enveloping than the DD track, but obviously not going to watch it without voices. Too bad.
post #84 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddlesticks View Post

Not working right for me with a PS3 and an H/K 247. You can hear everything except there's no center channel resulting in no dialogue. Shows up as 2-channel stereo on the receiver even though you can hear the surrounds, it's weird.

It sounds so much more enveloping than the DD track, but obviously not going to watch it without voices. Too bad.

What are your audio settings set at on the PS3? Seems odd to me. So long as you're using an HDMI cable it's all converted before it's sent to the receiver so you shouldn't see this problem.
post #85 of 272
Just a reminder - make sure that if you're using a PS3 you need to have the audio output set to Linear PCM. If you don't then you might see it as 2.0 DD or something odd. I just went through this with my friend's PS3 and Denon 3808. I have the same setup and it works fine. (And so does his now that we fixed his PS3.)
post #86 of 272
I'll go over my settings again.
post #87 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by BdoUK View Post

Well I just picked up Akira and when I try to listen to the TrueHD Japanese track I get a ton of static in all my speakers. I'm using a Panasonic BD30 and a Pioneer Elite 92TXH receiver that is capable of playing bitstreamed TrueHD.

I'm getting sound, but not the lossless (or even 5.1) track. The common ground among all of us with the issue is the BD30. Here's the receivers so far that people are pairing it with:
Denon 3808
Elite 92TXH
Onkyo 705

I don't think the issue lies with all three of those receivers. It's probably not the disc, since apparently it works in the PS3.
post #88 of 272
I checked with a HMV here at a local mall (Winnipeg), the kids working there were as useless as tits on a bull and couldn't give me a yes or no answer, just "check back in a few days..." . Maybe Walmart or one of the other large stores will bring it in for us Canucks, who knows.
post #89 of 272
checked the local Walmart today, no luck still.
post #90 of 272
I've got a friend who has a Sony BDP-S350 and an Oknyo 705. In theory, this combo should work (according to the manuals for both devices). The info screen for the BDP-S350 says it's outputting 192Khz. When he presses the display button on the Onkyo the front panel says it's 48Khz. He has sound - is it likely a glitch on the Onkyo display?
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