AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › Guide To Building A Media Storage Server
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Guide To Building A Media Storage Server - Page 104

post #3091 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

Which of the above would be your choice?
I dont mind buying a graphics card or using on board gaphics

Is this a pure "server", or is it gonna be used for desktop functions as well?
post #3092 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

Is this a pure "server", or is it gonna be used for desktop functions as well?

95% Server
post #3093 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

Hi Guys,

I recieved confirmation that the 3Ware card will work with the 1.5TB drives.

A review on newegg ( link below) stated that "single I/O streams (drag and drop) still chug along at 30-60 MB/s"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816116046

This really worries me and I am puzzled why it is so slow.

Can someone shed some light please.

Help is much appreciated.

The reviewer also mentions 6TB with 18 disks. Not sure what config he's running, but may be smaller older drives or a mix as another poster mentioned.

I'll check on mine at home. RAID6 is likely slowing things down since you have the double parity calc. In either case, I don't really have too much of a need to sustain high write rates, so it hasn't been much of an issue for me.
post #3094 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by donato View Post

The reviewer also mentions 6TB with 18 disks. Not sure what config he's running, but may be smaller older drives or a mix as another poster mentioned.

I'll check on mine at home. RAID6 is likely slowing things down since you have the double parity calc. In either case, I don't really have too much of a need to sustain high write rates, so it hasn't been much of an issue for me.

Thanks for checking... Appreciate it
post #3095 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

95% Server

There is no such thing as 95% server... Either this is housed somewhere far away just serving files or processing, or this is gonna end up under your desk and be your workstation.

The reason I ask is because, if it's gonna be used as workstation, even if for 5% of the time, the onboard video is worthless in most server boards. Unless you are just doing management tasks, you'll end up needing a video card, if you're gonna run it connected to a monitor.
post #3096 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

Is this a pure "server", or is it gonna be used for desktop functions as well?

To be more precise, the purpose is to:

• Stream Blu Ray content to 5 rooms at the same time effortlessly.
• Very fast read and write speeds in a Raid 6 configuartion.

I will definatley need it connected to a monitor and it will be rack mounted in a cupboard
post #3097 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

So if I were to use all Seagate 1.5TB drives would could I expect?

My spec is as follows:

CORSAIR XMS3 12GB (6 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model HX3X12G1333C9 - Retail
$219.99

ASUS Z8NA-D6 (ASMB4-IKVM) Dual LGA 1366 Intel 5500 ATX Dual Intel Xeon 5500 Series Server Motherboard - Retail
$359.99

3ware 9650SE-24M8 PCI Express x 8 SATA II Red Hot RAID 6 Controller Card -Retail
$1,114.99

NORCO RPC-4220 4U Rackmount Server Case - Retail
$349.99

NORCO RL-26 26" 3-sections Ball Bearing Sliding Rail kit for rackmount
$38.99

2 x Intel Xeon E5520 Nehalem 2.26GHz LGA 1366 80W Quad-Core Server Processor Model BX80602E5520 - Retail
$379.99 Each

2 x Intel BXSTS100C Passive/active combination heat sink with removable fan - Retail
$31.99each

HP J9028B Switch http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/uk/en...9-3445962.html

20 x 1.5TB Seagate Drives


I know the RAM and dual processors is overkill. But 12GB for $200 what the hell.

Help is much appreciated!

One other comment - I use the drives coming off of my 3ware card as storage array only (currently 10 X 1.5tb in RAID6, but have more drives already on the way) and so I have separate boot drives (300gb velociraptors) direct connect to mother sata ports. You can mount 1 3.5" drive in the chassis and I have the other drive (mirror) just set in the chassis beside the other 3.5" drive, but I want to figure out something a little better than that.

With that many drives, you may want to have an extra 1.5tb drive available as a hot spare just in case (or use one of your 20 as a hot spare). Rebuild time on a 20 X 1.5tb RAID6 array might be awhile. I'm still torn about whether or not to OCE to create one 20 X 1.5TB RAID6 array or just have two 10 X 1.5TB RAID6 arrays.
post #3098 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

To be more precise, the purpose is to:

Stream Blu Ray content to 5 rooms at the same time effortlessly.
Very fast read and write speeds in a Raid 6 configuartion.

Are you intending on doing anything else with it?

If not a Dual Core Celeron E1200 with 4GB ECC DDR2 could manage that as well as the dual socket system you have listed...
post #3099 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

To be more precise, the purpose is to:

Stream Blu Ray content to 5 rooms at the same time effortlessly.
Very fast read and write speeds in a Raid 6 configuartion.

I will definatley need it connected to a monitor and it will be rack mounted in a cupboard

RAID6 is not the way to go for fast write speeds. If you want the speed, go RAID10, but that's probably overkill.

I have a cheap PCI-X graphics card in my server and it is connected to my KVM, but most of the time I just RDP to the server anyway.
post #3100 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

To be more precise, the purpose is to:

Stream Blu Ray content to 5 rooms at the same time effortlessly.
Very fast read and write speeds in a Raid 6 configuartion.

That's a server.

In which case, my personal choice would be either the TYAN S7012GM4NR or the ASUS Z8PE-D12X(ASMB4-IKVM). If push comes to shove even between those two, I'd choose the Tyan.

However, that being said, for your listed objectives, this is WAY WAY overkill.

Blu Ray content = max 50mbps.

x 5 rooms = 250mbps

That's 1/4th of a wired gigabit connection. An Atom 330 could saturate that.

As far as fast RAID-6 speeds are concerned, that's a function of your RAID card (in your case), not the system. The same RAID card will probably offer 98% of the throughput on a system that's 1/4th the size (or even less), than what you have listed.

That also being said, it's your money. Knock yourself out.
post #3101 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

Thanks for checking... Appreciate it

Oh yeah, to other things you want to put on your parts list. One is the battery backup for the RAID card. You also need to buy the forward breakout cables (M8 connector to SATA). newegg should have the cables, but I think I bought my battery backup from provantage.
post #3102 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by donato View Post

One other comment - I use the drives coming off of my 3ware card as storage array only (currently 10 X 1.5tb in RAID6, but have more drives already on the way) and so I have separate boot drives (300gb velociraptors) direct connect to mother sata ports. You can mount 1 3.5" drive in the chassis and I have the other drive (mirror) just set in the chassis beside the other 3.5" drive, but I want to figure out something a little better than that.

With that many drives, you may want to have an extra 1.5tb drive available as a hot spare just in case (or use one of your 20 as a hot spare). Rebuild time on a 20 X 1.5tb RAID6 array might be awhile. I'm still torn about whether or not to OCE to create one 20 X 1.5TB RAID6 array or just have two 10 X 1.5TB RAID6 arrays.

I was going to go with either 2 x 250GB drives in Raid 1 (somewhere in the case) for the OS or a Slim Fujitsu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822116084 because the new Norco cause only has space for a 2.5 hd on top.

I will also have a spare 1.5TB as you suggested.

Thansk for all the help and advice
post #3103 of 7730
Farris, what OS are you going to run on this?
post #3104 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by donato View Post

Oh yeah, to other things you want to put on your parts list. One is the battery backup for the RAID card. You also need to buy the forward breakout cables (M8 connector to SATA). newegg should have the cables, but I think I bought my battery backup from provantage.

It never crossed my mind for a battery backup.

Is this necessary and is it easy to connect?

Can you recommend a good one please?

What OS would you recmmend? I like windows and am thinking Server 2008 or Vista 64?
post #3105 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

I was going to go with either 2 x 250GB drives in Raid 1 (somewhere in the case) for the OS or a Slim Fujitsu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822116084 because the new Norco cause only has space for a 2.5 hd on top.

I will also have a spare 1.5TB as you suggested.

Thansk for all the help and advice

norco takes a 3.5" up top. My velociraptors have the icepack on them so they are 3.5" form factor. Of course, if you really want overkill, you could go Intel SSD...could even go 2xSSD in RAID0 and buy a little supermicro 3.5" case that fits 2 X 2.5" SSD and mount that in one bay available up top.
post #3106 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by donato View Post

norco takes a 3.5" up top. My velociraptors have the icepack on them so they are 3.5" form factor. Of course, if you really want overkill, you could go Intel SSD...could even go 2xSSD in RAID0 and buy a little supermicro 3.5" case that fits 2 X 2.5" SSD and mount that in one bay available up top.

Even the new Norco 4220?
post #3107 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

It never crossed my mind for a battery backup.

Is this necessary and is it easy to connect?

Can you recommend a good one please?

What OS would you recmmend? I like windows and am thinking Server 2008 or Vista 64?

I was referring in particular to the battery backup that goes on the RAID card for any writes that are cached on the card.

UPS is a good idea too, but honestly, I haven't implemented mine yet either.

I would hands down go Server 2008 (that's what I'm running). Run Hyper-V on the system and you can build all your VMs there. then you can at least start to make use of all your processing and memory.
post #3108 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

Even the new Norco 4220?

ah, dunno about the new one. I bought 6 months ago or so.
post #3109 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by donato View Post

I was referring in particular to the battery backup that goes on the RAID card for any writes that are cached on the card.

UPS isn't a good idea too, but honestly, I haven't implemented mine yet either.

I would hands down go Server 2008 (that's what I'm running). Run Hyper-V on the system and you can build all your VMs there. then you can at least start to make use of all your processing and memory.

UPS?

Server 2008 seems really expensive, dpending on the version and number of clients. Any idea what sort of version and cost I am looking at?

I am connecting the following to the server:

- 2 PCs (both running vista 32bit)
- 5 Popcorn hour A110 for playing movies in different rooms
- 5 Sling Boxes for music
post #3110 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

Even the new Norco 4220?

Quote:
Originally Posted by donato View Post

ah, dunno about the new one. I bought 6 months ago or so.

Call Norco and tell them you have the "old" style chassis (the 4020). Tell them, you broke that top drive cage...and can you get a replacement? They will send it to you either free or for a very nominal amount. Remove the 2.5" plate, screw in the old style plate. Voila, 3.5" drive in the new case.
post #3111 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

Call Norco and tell them you have the "old" style chassis (the 4020). Tell them, you broke that top drive cage...and can you get a replacement? They will send it to you either free or for a very nominal amount. Remove the 2.5" plate, screw in the old style plate. Voila, 3.5" drive in the new case.

Great idea... Thanks
post #3112 of 7730
farris, i ran crystaldiskmark v2.2 64-bit version in default test mode (5 iterations, 100MB) on my server both on my 10 x 1.5tb RAID6 array (I don't recall my sector size though, maybe 128K) off of the 3ware card as well as my 2 x 300gb velociraptor in RAID 1.

All measurements were in MB/s. Server wasn't completely idle, but only lightweight activity on it.

10 x 1.5tb RAID6 on 3ware
Sequential: 911.1 read, 851.2 write
512K random: 831.9 read, 719.6 write
4K: 41.26 read, 5.843 write

2 X 300GB velociraptor RAID 1 off southbridge
Sequential: 104.5, 69.99
512K: 60.89, 44.58
4K: 0.958, 0.666

so, you can see that for large reads (512k or sequential), you should see plenty of performance. The raid array (this with only 10 drives and effectively only 8 with non-redundant data) has an order of magnitude (i.e. almost 10 times) more transfer capability than a very fast single SATA hard disk.

two other thoughts I had for you:

- on my bike commute home, I debated whether or not server 2008 made sense for you or not. It is obviously a more full featured, but complicated product.

- if you're talking about the new norco case with the sas backplane, then obviously you need M8 to mini SAS internal cables rather than to SATA.
post #3113 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

UPS?

Server 2008 seems really expensive, dpending on the version and number of clients. Any idea what sort of version and cost I am looking at?

I am connecting the following to the server:

- 2 PCs (both running vista 32bit)
- 5 Popcorn hour A110 for playing movies in different rooms
- 5 Sling Boxes for music

whoops, meant to say UPS (uninterruptible power supply - battery backup for your entire system) is a good idea (will edit my original message).

I'm using an MSDN license, so i didn't buy server license directly. I just use the license from my MSDN subscription (which I get through work).

side note, I also use a popcorn hour, but find blu ray streaming to stutter periodically. I don't have this problem on my HTPC, so I assume it's an issue with the popcorn hour, but i need to research it a bit more.
post #3114 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by donato View Post

I don't have this problem on my HTPC, so I assume it's an issue with the popcorn hour, but i need to research it a bit more.

The hardware decoder in the PCH is definitely capable of playing BluRay content, but getting the network setup up to scratch can be a bit of a pain since the processor is very slow, everything has to be 'just right'. At the very least you'll need to use NFS or HTTP instead of Windows file sharing and make sure your network itself is decent (good NICs and switches, no wireless).

If you're still having trouble, the forums over there have quite a bit of information on performance tuning as well.Also possible that it's a firmware issue, which they've been quite responsive to fixing, so if everything else checks out, reporting it on the NMT forums might get you some development attention.
post #3115 of 7730
I have one of the new Norco 4220's and I don't think the old 3.5" cage will fit due to the placement of the hold down screws. They are only about 3.5" (on center) apart so I don't see how you could fit a 3.5" drice into that spot without moding the case to provide new mounting screw locations.

I personnaly bought the Supermicro MDB-X7SBL-LN1 yesterday to replace the old "used" motherboard I originally tried. I can tell you that the hit or miss quality of the PCIe x8 or x16 implementations on some of these consumer motherboards (I tried 3 different ones) caused me nothing but headaches. I would definately suggest the server class motherboard but I personnaly don't think you need a high power server for these types of applications. I put a E5200 on this MB and I'm pretty confident that I won't need to worry about the processing power. My usage scenario is very similar to yours and it just doesn't take a lot of horsepower to saturate a Gig ENET connection so why have it.

So far I have to say I haven't had good luck with the 1.5TB drives I've tried. I can't get the WD Greenpower drives to finish initializing a RAID5 array. At least one of them drops out before 30% each time. Maybe I have a bad batch but my 3ware controller doesn't seem to like them at all.

Donato - which 1.5TB drives are you using successfully on a 3ware controller (I have the 9690SA-4I paired with a Chenbro CK12803 expander).
post #3116 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by xuniman View Post

So far I have to say I haven't had good luck with the 1.5TB drives I've tried. I can't get the WD Greenpower drives to finish initializing a RAID5 array. At least one of them drops out before 30% each time. Maybe I have a bad batch but my 3ware controller doesn't seem to like them at all.

Donato - which 1.5TB drives are you using successfully on a 3ware controller (I have the 9690SA-4I paired with a Chenbro CK12803 expander).

I'm using seagate. all have firmware cc1x not sd1x. I heard the green drives had issues in raid arrays since they spin down or something and the controller seems them as offline and fails. not sure if that's true about the WDs, but the seagates have worked fine for me.
post #3117 of 7730
I have a few of the Seagate drives also but they weren't any better when I tried them, of course that was with a motherboard I'm convinced had issues with the PCIe x16 slot I was using. I guess I'll give the Seagates another try. Most had the CC1H firmware but a couple were older units I needed to flash to the newer firmware. I will need to check to see what versions they are running.
post #3118 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_beast666 View Post

Are you intending on doing anything else with it?

If not a Dual Core Celeron E1200 with 4GB ECC DDR2 could manage that as well as the dual socket system you have listed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

However, that being said, for your listed objectives, this is WAY WAY overkill.

Blu Ray content = max 50mbps.

x 5 rooms = 250mbps

That's 1/4th of a wired gigabit connection. An Atom 330 could saturate that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xuniman View Post

... but I personnaly don't think you need a high power server for these types of applications. I put a E5200 on this MB and I'm pretty confident that I won't need to worry about the processing power. My usage scenario is very similar to yours and it just doesn't take a lot of horsepower to saturate a Gig ENET connection so why have it.

Just to kind of prove the cpu power needed to stream to myself, I set up a test this morning using my backup server. I copied a BluRay rip to it 3 times (it normally doesn't serve media so it had no files on it). I then streamed each copy to each of the 3 computers I have that can play a full HD stream (only 3 pcs available - sorry I couldn't test all 5 streams you mentioned). I did play a 4th 720p stream on my laptop though just to stress the server as much as possible though.

All 4 streams played back with no issues or stuttering.

So, the question I bet you're asking now is 'what hardware was in this serving powerhouse to provide such performance?'

A Pentium III. Running at 750MHz, 768MB SDRAM. Single 32 bit 33MHz PCI bus, containing an Intel Pro/1000 MT desktop gigabit NIC and a 3Ware 7506-8 8 channel IDE RAID card with 4x80GB & 4x120GB IDE disks (various manfs) in 2 separate RAID5 arrays.

So if my 750MHz P3 can do it, why do you need 8 cores@2266MHz, with over 10 times the RAM?

Note that I am not suggesting you buy a P3 to do the job, just maybe have a think about the reasons why you want to go with just about the most powerful system you can fit into a single case to accomplish what is actually a task with very low cpu requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

As far as fast RAID-6 speeds are concerned, that's a function of your RAID card (in your case), not the system. The same RAID card will probably offer 98% of the throughput on a system that's 1/4th the size (or even less), than what you have listed.

As stated, the RAID card & disks are pretty much the only things that matters as far as disk read/write speeds are concerned (and to be honest, for these multi-spindle arrays for media serving, even the disks are largely irrelevant). Extra cpu is useless & a waste of money.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

That also being said, it's your money. Knock yourself out.

True. But I just don't feel comfortable letting someone spend ~$2,000 more than they need to for no benefit in order to achieve their aims after asking for advice...

Not trying to tell you what to do with your cash, just to (politely) inform you that you are being a bit silly. If I were in your shoes & had the money available, I would save the cash on the processors, board & RAM and put it towwards a nicer TV or a (lot) of new BluRays instead.
post #3119 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_beast666 View Post

Just to kind of prove the cpu power needed to stream to myself, I set up a test this morning using my backup server. I copied a BluRay rip to it 3 times (it normally doesn't serve media so it had no files on it). I then streamed each copy to each of the 3 computers I have that can play a full HD stream (only 3 pcs available - sorry I couldn't test all 5 streams you mentioned). I did play a 4th 720p stream on my laptop though just to stress the server as much as possible though.

All 4 streams played back with no issues or stuttering.

So, the question I bet you're asking now is 'what hardware was in this serving powerhouse to provide such performance?'

A Pentium III. Running at 750MHz, 768MB SDRAM. Single 32 bit 33MHz PCI bus, containing an Intel Pro/1000 MT desktop gigabit NIC and a 3Ware 7506-8 8 channel IDE RAID card with 4x80GB & 4x120GB IDE disks (various manfs) in 2 separate RAID5 arrays.

So if my 750MHz P3 can do it, why do you need 8 cores@2266MHz, with over 10 times the RAM?

Note that I am not suggesting you buy a P3 to do the job, just maybe have a think about the reasons why you want to go with just about the most powerful system you can fit into a single case to accomplish what is actually a task with very low cpu requirements.



As stated, the RAID card & disks are pretty much the only things that matters as far as disk read/write speeds are concerned (and to be honest, for these multi-spindle arrays for media serving, even the disks are largely irrelevant). Extra cpu is useless & a waste of money.





True. But I just don't feel comfortable letting someone spend ~$2,000 more than they need to for no benefit in order to achieve their aims after asking for advice...

Not trying to tell you what to do with your cash, just to (politely) inform you that you are being a bit silly. If I were in your shoes & had the money available, I would save the cash on the processors, board & RAM and put it towwards a nicer TV or a (lot) of new BluRays instead.

I sincerely appreciate the advice.

If it s not too much trouble would you be kind enough to spec a machine that will comfortably achive my goals without costing me far too much?

I was going for overkill, rather than underkill

I appreciate the help
post #3120 of 7730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farris View Post

I sincerely appreciate the advice.

If it s not too much trouble would you be kind enough to spec a machine that will comfortably achive my goals without costing me far too much?

I was going for overkill, rather than underkill

I appreciate the help

CPU Q9400 more than fast enough. Could replace with E5200 for more savings but would lose the hardware virtualisation capability for the future.

RAM 4GB ECC DDR2 get 2 for 8GB if you want.

Mobo Intel server board S3210SHLC

Other options, just in a bit of a hurry...

Hope this helps
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Home Theater Computers
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Home Theater Computers › Guide To Building A Media Storage Server