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Official Sony XBR8 Series Owner's Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 5433
Can anyone check XBR8 viewing angle and see if the colors hold from any angle?
post #122 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQUOS1 View Post

Can anyone check XBR8 viewing angle and see if the colors hold from any angle?


I saw it, up to 40-45 degree possibly was ok, after that there was wash out effect.
post #123 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpOne View Post

On that note, I believe that Sony's name is pretty strong in reliability and longevity of their products. I've never bought a Samsung anything and I believe they are relatively new in electronics (less than 10/15 years?). How has the life of their products held up over that time? Any one have any ideas on that. I don't plan on buying anything for quite some time after this...along the lines of about 6-10 years.

That statement may be true for their tube series XBR Tvs...and some other items but there seems a lot more complaints about Sony Electronics than ever before in the last few years.

Also, from what I hear in the repair shops...don't expect the new TVs to last more than five years without needing a repair service... Be happy if they do....
post #124 of 5433
Thread Starter 
In the German site AreaDVD there is detailed review of the 55" EUropean equivalent of the XBR-8. Quite detail overview of functions and controls plus praises of picture quality. In short they say this is best TV money can buy, and the 6299 is a real money which they find as the only negative about this set. The review is made rather from the standard user point of view so no exotic tests trying to catch flaws, e.g. no mention about the viewing angle. The review is in two parts, here is english translation of Part 1 and Part 2. The reviewers have not tested yet the 55" from Samsung so nothing is mentioned about their relative performance.
post #125 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo View Post

That statement may be true for their tube series XBR Tvs...and some other items but there seems a lot more complaints about Sony Electronics than ever before in the last few years.

Also, from what I hear in the repair shops...don't expect the new TVs to last more than five years without needing a repair server... Be happy if they do....

Interesting. Consumer Reports just announced that both LCD and PLASMA tv technology had achieved ALL-TIME highs for reliability, with <3% total requiring repair(s) in the first 3 years. Sony was less than 2%, if I recall correctly. I'd say those are pretty damn respectable figures for devices getting used a couple of thousand (or in many cases, more) hours a year. I guess we don't have a "5 year study" on-hand, but you'd have to presume a dramatic declination in the aforementioned numbers to negate their findings from a 5 year perspective, IMHO.

James
post #126 of 5433
I have not seen that issue of CR. However, the repair shops are probably going by figures of TVs about five years older than this current crop of TVs.

By the way, dropping brightness to 25% of new on either LCD or PLASMA is considered a failure in my book, even if the manufacturer says that is not a defect. I know the expectation is something like 60,000 hours to 50% (in reality I think it is shorter due to the power cycling effects).

YMMV.
post #127 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

In the German site AreaDVD there is detailed review of the 55" EUropean equivalent of the XBR-8. Quite detail overview of functions and controls plus praises of picture quality. In short they say this is best TV money can buy, and the 6299 is a real money which they find as the only negative about this set. The review is made rather from the standard user point of view so no exotic tests trying to catch flaws, e.g. no mention about the viewing angle. The review is in two parts, here is english translation of Part 1 and Part 2. The reviewers have not tested yet the 55" from Samsung so nothing is mentioned about their relative performance.

Great review. The only thing that concerns me is that they seem to like cooler color temperatures and high sharpness. (On the 9G kuro review they choose medium as the optimal CT, while it may be different from the US models, is definitely NOT the correct choice. I also assume they are similar PQ settings wise because CS2 is still really accurate on euro models). I would love it if they provided charts and graphs, but it was still an exceptionally positive review.

P.S. Does the XBR8 have RGB high/low adjustments and/or a CMS??
post #128 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQUOS1 View Post

Can anyone check XBR8 viewing angle and see if the colors hold from any angle?

I saw the XBR8 (46" and 55") at the Sony Store today. Viewing angle was disappointing but not necessarily a deal breaker. Colors, especially black, washed out quickly as I moved off-center. Aside from that, the XBR8 has an outstanding picture. It has beautiful colors, detail and great black levels. Background colors were completely uniform. It's the best LCD I've seen yet.

Unfortunately, the XBR8 would not be good in my living room because its wide side glass bezel panels reflect too much light for me. It looks great when the TV is off, but when it's on it's a huge distraction. Why oh why don't manufacturers use non-reflective bezels?

I look forward to seeing the upcoming XBR7 and its 240Hz. I hope to next year get either the XBR7 or the upcoming Panasonic/Pioneer NeoPDP.
post #129 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahoo View Post

That statement may be true for their tube series XBR Tvs...and some other items but there seems a lot more complaints about Sony Electronics than ever before in the last few years.

Also, from what I hear in the repair shops...don't expect the new TVs to last more than five years without needing a repair service... Be happy if they do....


Actually, I remember their tube tvs had a whole generation in ~ year 2000 that had rampant power supply board failure issues. I think there are a few threads about it on these forums. I had 2 different models from that gen, and both died, one in 3 years, the other in about 4. No other TV has died on me, before or after.
post #130 of 5433
thanks, irkuck.... for hunting down and providing the translation links.

for me, the Page2 hyperlink in your post only brought up Page1 again. i discovered that to get to Page2, hover over 'Continue to Page 2', click on the popup Page2 hyperlink and it will get you there.

[i tried posting the url from page 2, but it only brings up Page 1 as in your hyperlink]

thanks again for posting this....

TVbc


Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

In the German site AreaDVD there is detailed review of the 55" EUropean equivalent of the XBR-8. Quite detail overview of functions and controls plus praises of picture quality. In short they say this is best TV money can buy, and the 6299 is a real money which they find as the only negative about this set. The review is made rather from the standard user point of view so no exotic tests trying to catch flaws, e.g. no mention about the viewing angle. The review is in two parts, here is english translation of Part 1 and Part 2. The reviewers have not tested yet the 55" from Samsung so nothing is mentioned about their relative performance.
post #131 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpOne View Post

I'm still in wait on to see how the whole XBR7/8 quality vs price vs the Samsung line comparable price to pan out.

It just seems that if the Sony quality isn't noticably better, they will be forced to lower the price on the 7 and 8 relatively quickly....at least that's my hope anyway...because I want a TV yesterday.

On that note, I believe that Sony's name is pretty strong in reliability and longevity of their products. I've never bought a Samsung anything and I believe they are relatively new in electronics (less than 10/15 years?). How has the life of their products held up over that time? Any one have any ideas on that. I don't plan on buying anything for quite some time after this...along the lines of about 6-10 years.

lol, I still have a 32 in magnavox tube I bought as a floor model at Best Buy 10 years ago. Which is what this TV will replace.

There is a comparative test of the XBR8 vs the Samsung A950 in a German magazine. Here are the results:


http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/i...jpg/1/w640.png

It should be noted that the test is slightly biased toward the Samsung, as the White Balance and Gamma charts both speak in favour of the Sony. Overall both are very similar in picture quality. The Samsung has more accurate colors, while the Sony has the better white balance and gamma.

I have tested the A950 myself at home and my only complaints were gamma: the set has only a few dimming thresholds, there isn't a continuous backlighting increase across the whole luminance spectrum. You barely notice this during viewing, but this mainly means the backlighting gain mainly happens between 40% and 60% luminance (arguably a non critical zone for gamma).

So in the end it is a matter of picture feel. The Sony probably makes the more natural impression, though not necessary the best impression. The Samsung implementation certainly preserves shadow detail and whites, with an added 3 dimensionality out of the gamma. Black levels and luminance are very similar, so probably not decision-making.
It probably will come down to bulkiness, price and reflective versus matte screen in terms of chosing between the two.
post #132 of 5433
So I have two questions:

1) Can we get the bezels painted matte black (ie can they be disassembled and taken to a paint shop

2) Can one get a glass cutter to remove those pointless dumbo ear speakers from the sides?
post #133 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Interesting. Consumer Reports just announced that both LCD and PLASMA tv technology had achieved ALL-TIME highs for reliability, with <3% total requiring repair(s) in the first 3 years. Sony was less than 2%, if I recall correctly. I'd say those are pretty damn respectable figures for devices getting used a couple of thousand (or in many cases, more) hours a year. I guess we don't have a "5 year study" on-hand, but you'd have to presume a dramatic declination in the aforementioned numbers to negate their findings from a 5 year perspective, IMHO.

James

Televisions don't have any moving parts (or they shouldn't, anyways). Solid-state electronic devices like TVs should have good reliability, and the reason reliability has been in decline in recent decades is because of cheap parts, shoddy build quality, and other things which have occurred as everyone races towards the Wal-mart price crater because people only buy things which are supercheap and think they are getting a great deal until their shiny new electronic toy fails a year after they buy it. My parents have an 11-year old Sony 32" CRT SDTV and it still works exactly the same as when they bought it.
post #134 of 5433
^^ Technically, neither does a PC motherboard (outside of fan). You forgot
to mention the one thing that all electronic devices are at the mercy to:

H.E.A.T.

Just ask anyone with an xbox 360...

Plasmas and LCDs get warm... which can affect circuit boards and, perhaps,
filters and such as well in time. It's even worse than for the CRTs as the
bulk of the circuitry is very close to the panel itself. Ever hear the complaints
of folks who hear their TV's make 'ticking' sounds (thanks to the plastic) when
they are turned off? There's no moving parts that make it tick... it's that
wonderful 4 letter word above. As circuitry gets smaller and more complicated
the higher the chance of failure. Local dimming, for example, probably requires a
bit of processing... and let's not forget other stuff like 120Hz and and all the
wonderful processing that goes on to make the colours accurate, the image
cleaner, the motion better.

The circuitry for the 11-year old Sony you're talking about could probably be shrunk
down to fit in a cellphone or even a watch today.

...and we're talking about thinner panels coming soon enough... all the better.
post #135 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

Televisions don't have any moving parts (or they shouldn't, anyways). Solid-state electronic devices like TVs should have good reliability, and the reason reliability has been in decline in recent decades is because of cheap parts, shoddy build quality, and other things which have occurred as everyone races towards the Wal-mart price crater because people only buy things which are supercheap and think they are getting a great deal until their shiny new electronic toy fails a year after they buy it. My parents have an 11-year old Sony 32" CRT SDTV and it still works exactly the same as when they bought it.

Ok.
post #136 of 5433
I guess we'll see how it all comes out in the wash, but nothing I've "seen" or read thus far would make me anticipate that the Samsung950 will offer a SUPERIOR picture to the xbr8. Perhaps a quite comparable image or, almost certainly, a better result dollar-for-dollar, but a "better" picture? I just don't see the tech the samsung offers up that affords for such a position. Not that the sony has a laundry list of it (tech advantages), but more zones perhaps reasonably indicates more consistent color saturation and less blooming (if any). Additionally, it seems to me that many feel that Sony has a better handle on motion, which, depending on your perspective, has everything or nothing to do with image quality.

I have no dog in the fight, so I don't really care who comes out "on top" (again, relative phrase anyway). Perhaps someone more industry-inclined could offer up the Samasung technological edges that could perhaps nudge it ahead?

This will be interesting. My guess would be both "johhny Sony/Samsung" camps will staunchly hold their position(s) of equality and the same argument will be going on 6 months from now.

James
post #137 of 5433
Color saturations are actually slightly better on the Samsung (and further customizable). White balance and gamma are slightly better on the Sony.

Blooming is not an issue on the Samsung.

The main advantage of the Sony for me is scaling, but many people who buy either of those TV's already have a solid external scaler.

Deinterlacing and motion handling is good on both sets (both use backlight scanning).

I had 2 Samsung LCD's before this one I can tell you that I didn't trust Samsung to get either color space of white balance right, but they actually did. Calibrating this set was very easy compared to the A650. Just check my calibration results on the Samsung 950x Thread (around page 28 / post 843).

Sony will probably make the best SD picture, though, that is if you don't use an external scaler.
post #138 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by puremind View Post

It probably will come down to bulkiness, price and reflective versus matte screen in terms of chosing between the two.

Agree. I've seen the picture quality on both and they're very close so like what you said, it's a matter of above.
post #139 of 5433
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vangorkomm View Post

I got the discount by ordering through the Sony Family Center, through a friend who works at Sony.
jsteinhauer: neither TV I received had a protective film over the bezel, which makes me think both models were possibly floor models or something. thanks for the insight.
Anyone else receive an XBR8 with or without protective film over the bezel?

There is no other way but to conclude Sony is selling to its workers at significant discount but these are not pristine virgin sets. Thus, all who are NOT buying at such discount should NOT base their decision on the quality of the workers discount sets.

Now the question is WHY Sony is DOING THIS? It is unbelievable and impossible such expensive sets may slip through the quality control with scratches on the front. So the only explanation is they do not want peoplebe able to resell these sets at profit. Extremely nasty method but at least somewhat understandable.
post #140 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by puremind View Post

...
It probably will come down to bulkiness, price and reflective versus matte screen in terms of chosing between the two.

My thoughts exactly. When I saw both in person, I thought the 950 has a bit more pop, but picture quality is virtually a tie. If the Samsungs didn't have the huge glare problem, I would have the 950 at home already. As it is, I'm waiting to see if Sony will drop the price on the XB8 - it is not competitive at this price level, and you can see it by the number of people that bought it and reported here on the forum (like single-digit numbers vs many Samsung owners). If the XBR8 doesn't get to a more reasonable price level within couple months, I'll have to eat the glare problem and get the 950.
post #141 of 5433
I have the a950 and in my opinion the glare is not as bad as people think. I dont notice it at all.

pq on the a950 is superb.
post #142 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by st_o_p View Post

My thoughts exactly. When I saw both in person, I thought the 950 has a bit more pop, but picture quality is virtually a tie. If the Samsungs didn't have the huge glare problem, I would have the 950 at home already. As it is, I'm waiting to see if Sony will drop the price on the XB8 - it is not competitive at this price level, and you can see it by the number of people that bought it and reported here on the forum (like single-digit numbers vs many Samsung owners). If the XBR8 doesn't get to a more reasonable price level within couple months, I'll have to eat the glare problem and get the 950.

Don't be fooled though, the X4500 does reflect too and the reflection is nastier (uglier) as it removes some brightness from the screen, which doesn't happen with the Samsung.
post #143 of 5433
The XBR8 is also semi-reflective, much more so than the completely matte screen of the XBR2. I have a computer monitor in the back of my viewing area with an illuminated logo that never mattered with the prior display. It now shows up as a big white blemish on the screen, and I have to turn it off.
post #144 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

There is no other way but to conclude Sony is selling to its workers at significant discount but these are not pristine virgin sets. Thus, all who are NOT buying at such discount should NOT base their decision on the quality of the workers discount sets.

Now the question is WHY Sony is DOING THIS? It is unbelievable and impossible such expensive sets may slip through the quality control with scratches on the front. So the only explanation is they do not want peoplebe able to resell these sets at profit. Extremely nasty method but at least somewhat understandable.

it is not understandable to me at all. manufacturers of all sorts of goods take great steps to protect their brand, including especially not releasing and selling seconds as new. they take steps to make it clear that the merchandise is a second, such as removing the labels or 'defacing' them in some way, or even labeling clearly as seconds -- which would be appropriate in this case if that is what they are doing.

it is unconscionable that sony is doing this. we see here already the negative reaction to the brand.

.... unless of course sony is making it perfectly clear what is being sold and we are not being told that. of course in this case, the guy isn't really part of the family, so....

if anyone knows the sales policies of the Sony Family Center, i for one would appreciate you posting exactly what it is.

thanks

TVbc

TVbc
post #145 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by puremind View Post

Don't be fooled though, the X4500 does reflect too and the reflection is nastier (uglier) as it removes some brightness from the screen, which doesn't happen with the Samsung.

the reflection is nastier?

you mean you are now starting to rate, rank and review the screen reflection quality?

oh...n-o-o-o-o-o-o......


TVbc
post #146 of 5433
Sony allows you to buy product in classes...'A' Product - untouched and still in original box unopened (Discount is not significant - a good deal at Best buy will usually beat it) or 'B' product - units never sold but out of box...could be anything from units used in a photo shoot to products that came off the assembly line and did not pass the final test...bad wiring/scratch on side/discoloring in plastic mold, etc. The 'B' product is usually about 10-25% below Dealer COST....significant savings on high end products...wait on getting a 'B' class product can be up to 6 months depending on how hot the item...lots of 'B' class units is NEVER good...something missed in quality control.
post #147 of 5433
Thread Starter 
For a comparison perspective with 55" XBR-8 you may wish to read the review of the competing Samsung 55" A9 series model here.

We know now both sets have superb color reproduction and black levels, looks like no real difference between them in these aspects.

But in the review some weak points of Samsung are revealed and these should be checked with Sony XBR-8 to see if there are actually some real differences in PQ:

For all its truly groundbreaking capabilities, though, the LE55A956 isn't perfect. Without doubt the biggest problem is its extremely limited viewing angle. As soon as you get to a viewing angle of around 40 degrees you can see some really quite extreme blooming', for want of a better word, around bright parts of the picture, especially when showing extreme contrasts.

Actually, on rare occasions there is a little blooming around bright parts of pictures even when you're looking straight at the TV. This was a much bigger problem on last year's Samsung LED TV, though, and the extent of the improvement is considerable. So much so that it really is barely a problem at all on the LE55A956 - provided you can look at the TV from pretty much straight on.

I also found the LE55A956's screen reflecting ambient light from my test room a little more obviously than I would ideally have liked; dark areas of the picture occasionally looking fractionally green even after colour tweaking; occasional evidence of minor colour banding; and upscaling of standard definition sources that can only be considered solid rather than inspiring.
post #148 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVbc View Post

the reflection is nastier?

you mean you are now starting to rate, rank and review the screen reflection quality?

oh...n-o-o-o-o-o-o......


TVbc

I do. Check for yourself. I couldn't live with such an ugly reflection.

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2008/...dl_x4500.shtml

I know that type of glare from my Dell monitor. It also has a semit-matte screen. When light is on it, you don't see the text anymore.

Many peopel rate reflections on LCD's to determine which reflection is the least evil...
post #149 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post

I saw it, up to 40-45 degree possibly was ok, after that there was wash out effect.

Is that 45 degrees off center (for a total 90 degree arc of good viewing)?

That would be great, because at 45 degrees, everyone in my viewing room would be covered.. only the off-angle view from kitchen would be washed out.
post #150 of 5433
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanMan View Post

Is that 45 degrees off center (for a total 90 degree arc of good viewing)?

That would be great, because at 45 degrees, everyone in my viewing room would be covered.. only the off-angle view from kitchen would be washed out.

yes! but I would like you to see, judge yourself!
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