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Official Sony XBR8 Series Owner's Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 5404
10/15/08 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

^^ Technically, neither does a PC motherboard (outside of fan). You forgot
to mention the one thing that all electronic devices are at the mercy to:

H.E.A.T.
...

The circuitry for the 11-year old Sony you're talking about could probably be shrunk
down to fit in a cellphone or even a watch today.

...and we're talking about thinner panels coming soon enough... all the better.

I'm not convinced. There is no reason that the circuits have to be packed so close together that adequate cooling is not possible. No mandate exists that requires the panels to be 2 inches thick. Adding a bit of air-space and designed airflow ventilation can do wonders for cooling.

I can understand the drive to the low price for entry level models, but when the top tier demands crazy (= small car) prices, it can absolutely be expected that those system are designed and manufactured with the quality components and processes that produce a solid product that will last 10+ years.
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post #152 of 5404
10/15/08 at 2:12pm
This is a question for actual XBR8 owners.

Does it have cooling fans? (like earlier XBRs did),
Does it operate silently?

Thank you!
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post #153 of 5404
10/15/08 at 4:21pm
Looking at the manual, and from what I've seen at the Sony Store, is true with 4:3 sources that the Pillar Box Color option is ONLY(?) white?

I was looking at the Samsung a950 manual the lighter color the pillar bars, the less likely of image retention/screen burn in. From what I gather the XBR8 does not give the option for black pillar bars. Or even gray/grey ones. BUT looking at the Samsung manual, it looks like they only have the option for black. Although the manual warns about leaving dark pillar bars on the TV too much wish may cause image retention. I could be wrong.

The Sony manual does not give any warnings at least from what I've seen, about image retention.
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post #154 of 5404
10/15/08 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by puremind View Post

I do. Check for yourself. I couldn't live with such an ugly reflection.

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/2008/...dl_x4500.shtml

I know that type of glare from my Dell monitor. It also has a semit-matte screen. When light is on it, you don't see the text anymore.

Many peopel rate reflections on LCD's to determine which reflection is the least evil...

I have a 46Z4100 that I believe has the same semi-matte screen as the XBR8. As an owner I can attest that the reflection masking abilities of the SONY LCD's are excellent. I had a plasma before that was unwatchable during the day. My Z shows no reflections what so ever, I love it. Luckily it also has a non shiny bezel. If I were to return it and get an XBR8 I have nothing to worry about from the point of view of reflections from the screen. The bezel on the XBR8 though is completely different story altogether,
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post #155 of 5404
10/15/08 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanMan View Post

Is that 45 degrees off center (for a total 90 degree arc of good viewing)?

That would be great, because at 45 degrees, everyone in my viewing room would be covered.. only the off-angle view from kitchen would be washed out.

You should go check for yourself. I just saw the 950 (finally!) and it had horrible off-axis viewing. More than 5 degrees from center and the inky blacks (and they were) turned grey. It was not subtle. It was surprisingly bad. I expect no better from the Sony since they are the same panel. But I will wait to see one.
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post #156 of 5404
10/15/08 at 7:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tele-TV View Post

Looking at the manual, and from what I've seen at the Sony Store, is true with 4:3 sources that the Pillar Box Color option is ONLY(?) white?

I was looking at the Samsung a950 manual the lighter color the pillar bars, the less likely of image retention/screen burn in. From what I gather the XBR8 does not give the option for black pillar bars. Or even gray/grey ones. BUT looking at the Samsung manual, it looks like they only have the option for black. Although the manual warns about leaving dark pillar bars on the TV too much wish may cause image retention. I could be wrong.

The Sony manual does not give any warnings at least from what I've seen, about image retention.

Disregard please, I forget my D* box box lets me choose the color.
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post #157 of 5404
10/15/08 at 7:47pm
By eye, I estimate that the viewing angle before the black starts lightening noticeably is about 25-30 degrees each way from center. It does not become severe (approaching normal black on my XBR2) until about 45-50 degrees.
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post #158 of 5404
10/15/08 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by puremind View Post

Color saturations are actually slightly better on the Samsung (and further customizable). White balance and gamma are slightly better on the Sony.

Blooming is not an issue on the Samsung.

The main advantage of the Sony for me is scaling, but many people who buy either of those TV's already have a solid external scaler.

Deinterlacing and motion handling is good on both sets (both use backlight scanning).

I had 2 Samsung LCD's before this one I can tell you that I didn't trust Samsung to get either color space of white balance right, but they actually did. Calibrating this set was very easy compared to the A650. Just check my calibration results on the Samsung 950x Thread (around page 28 / post 843).

Sony will probably make the best SD picture, though, that is if you don't use an external scaler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

For a comparison perspective with 55" XBR-8 you may wish to read the review of the competing Samsung 55" A9 series model here.

We know now both sets have superb color reproduction and black levels, looks like no real difference between them in these aspects.

But in the review some weak points of Samsung are revealed and these should be checked with Sony XBR-8 to see if there are actually some real differences in PQ:

For all its truly groundbreaking capabilities, though, the LE55A956 isn't perfect. Without doubt the biggest problem is its extremely limited viewing angle. As soon as you get to a viewing angle of around 40 degrees you can see some really quite extreme blooming', for want of a better word, around bright parts of the picture, especially when showing extreme contrasts.

Actually, on rare occasions there is a little blooming around bright parts of pictures even when you're looking straight at the TV. This was a much bigger problem on last year's Samsung LED TV, though, and the extent of the improvement is considerable. So much so that it really is barely a problem at all on the LE55A956 - provided you can look at the TV from pretty much straight on.

I also found the LE55A956's screen reflecting ambient light from my test room a little more obviously than I would ideally have liked; dark areas of the picture occasionally looking fractionally green even after colour tweaking; occasional evidence of minor colour banding; and upscaling of standard definition sources that can only be considered solid rather than inspiring.

This coincides with my experience of the Samsung. The blooming was extremely prevelant, and the off axis contrast drop off was anything but minimal. Although, with the set in Dynamic, and the backlight set to 10, the off axis viewing angles did not suffer as much.

Pretty irrelevant though. I mean, who watches TV with the set in Dynamic, and BL set to 10, right?
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post #159 of 5404
10/15/08 at 9:44pm
The A950 needs backlighting at 8 or more. See my calibration table in the Samsugn A95x thread. This set is just dimmer than previous LCDs by Samsung.

The blooming is not disturbing under normal watching conditions. Mostpeople who go to a stroe to test blooming are 1-2 meters away from the set.

But even with bad viewing angles, assuming a viewing distance of 2,3 meters you can fit many people in the sweet spot!

Anyway that's just my experience from owning the A95x for 2 weeks.
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post #160 of 5404
10/15/08 at 11:28pm
So is image retention a problem on LED backlight LCD's? I presume channel logo's will not be a problem but what if you watch a lot of letteboxed Blu-ray films?
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post #161 of 5404
10/16/08 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsteinhauer View Post

By eye, I estimate that the viewing angle before the black starts lightening noticeably is about 25-30 degrees each way from center. It does not become severe (approaching normal black on my XBR2) until about 45-50 degrees.

precisely, after 40 it is pretty bad wash out
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post #162 of 5404
10/16/08 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Camper View Post

This is a question for actual XBR8 owners.

Does it have cooling fans? (like earlier XBRs did),
Does it operate silently?

Thank you!

I too would like to know this.
The 46" xbr5 had very noisy cooling fans but the 52" xbr5 had no cooling fans at all. Silent as a mouse when I demoed one.
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post #163 of 5404
10/16/08 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Camper View Post

This is a question for actual XBR8 owners.

Does it have cooling fans? (like earlier XBRs did),
Does it operate silently?

Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 720p View Post

I too would like to know this.
The 46" xbr5 had very noisy cooling fans but the 52" xbr5 had no cooling fans at all. Silent as a mouse when I demoed one.

I am not an owner, but I specifically checked for this when I last visited the showrooms. Neither the 950, nor the XBR8 have fans as far as I can tell - I listened closely to the back of each TV, and they were silent. The showroom areas were quiet around those TVs so I could tell. I tried to check the Samsung 850 the same way, but it was in a noisy area and I couldn't tell (I know it has fan, I just wanted to find out how noisy).
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post #164 of 5404
10/16/08 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by puremind View Post

Don't be fooled though, the X4500 does reflect too and the reflection is nastier (uglier) as it removes some brightness from the screen, which doesn't happen with the Samsung.

I disagree - I've seen the XBR8 now 3 times on different occassions, and I was specifically looking for glare. While it may have some diffused light, there was no reflection that would bother me when I watch it. The 950 on the other hand (or any Samsung) has a very obvious glare - I can see myself in the dark areas of the screen, and it's really distracting.

That being said, I wouldn't pay 50% more just for no glare.
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post #165 of 5404
10/16/08 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by st_o_p View Post

I disagree - I've seen the XBR8 now 3 times on different occassions, and I was specifically looking for glare. While it may have some diffused light, there was no reflection that would bother me when I watch it. The 950 on the other hand (or any Samsung) has a very obvious glare - I can see myself in the dark areas of the screen, and it's really distracting.

That being said, I wouldn't pay 50% more just for no glare.

The fact is diffuse reflections are more difficult to separate from the actual picture content.

The X4500 unfortunately has opted for a more reflective screen compared to previous models:

[url=http://imageshack.us]

I prefer a screen that will perform great all the time if I close my curtains to a screen that will perform only 90% most of the time because it doesn't have a clear panel.

So I prefer either matte (works best under heavy light conditions) or reflective (works best under low light conditions), but not a mixture of both, as otherwise you never reach the viewing optimum.... I certainly prefer to organize my room around the TV than the contrary. I just can't renounce to the extra 10% quality that Clear Panels yield when used properly.
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post #166 of 5404
10/16/08 at 1:38pm
[quote=st_o_p;14878404]I am not an owner, but I specifically checked for this when I last visited the showrooms. Neither the 950, nor the XBR8 have fans as far as I can tell - I listened closely to the back of each TV, and they were silent. The showroom areas were quiet around those TVs so I could tell. I tried to check the Samsung 850 the same way, but it was in a noisy area and I couldn't tell (I know it has fan, I just wanted to find out how noisy).[/QU

The Fans on my 850 is super quiet I can't hear them at all.
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post #167 of 5404
10/16/08 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpud View Post

So is image retention a problem on LED backlight LCD's? I presume channel logo's will not be a problem but what if you watch a lot of letteboxed Blu-ray films?

LCD's do not have a problem with burn in or image retention. Knock yourself out.

By the way CNET just reviewed the 55XBR8 here.
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post #168 of 5404
10/16/08 at 2:13pm
The LED zones in Local dimming LCDs do wear at different rates if you watch stuff letterboxed much... Though it really shouldn't be much of a concern.
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post #169 of 5404
10/16/08 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Kamikaze=- View Post

LCD's do not have a problem with burn in or image retention. Knock yourself out.

By the way CNET just reviewed the 55XBR8 here.

4/5 same as penny plasma for $2500 or less, and 3 inches smaller screen size, so where do we go from here ladies and gentlewomen
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post #170 of 5404
10/16/08 at 3:32pm
The review says Sony has the slightly better picture quality than the 950 but does it cost $2000 more for that nah and i hope Sony realizes that... It's a good review for the xbr 8 and one good point it does good in bright lit rooms with little to no glare and good picture quality... Hard to choose damn
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post #171 of 5404
10/16/08 at 3:44pm
Given the cost and review compared to competitors, I feel Sony best consider the XBR8 as an in the field Beta test for future models using this technology at a competitive price point.

I was very very close to returning my 52XBR6 to get the 55XBR8. I will go instead with a ISF calibration and wait this round out.

To Sony: a very nice set..just not $7000.00 nice. It is just not 2X the cost better than what is offered in the Sony or competitors lines.
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post #172 of 5404
10/16/08 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post

4/5 same as penny plasma for $2500 or less, and 3 inches smaller screen size, so where do we go from here ladies and gentlewomen

1- The test was conducted by Patrick Katzmeier who is notorious for his Plasma bias
2- He calibrated the set for a gamma of 2,07 and then complaines about shadow details being too light.
3- He writes that the blacks of the pioneer wah out considerably in a bright room...
4- ...but still gives the edge to the pioneer. Go figure...
5- Do you want to see something funny?



Why do I not trust the ranking Pioneer>Sony>Samsung that CNET has established?
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post #173 of 5404
10/16/08 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by puremind View Post

1- The test was conducted by Patrick Katzmeier who is notorious for his Plasma bias
2- He calibrated the set for a gamma of 2,07 and then complaines about shadow details being too light.
3- He writes that the blacks of the pioneer wah out considerably in a bright room...
4- ...but still gives the edge to the pioneer. Go figure...
5- Do you want to see something funny?



Why do I not trust the ranking Pioneer>Sony>Samsung that CNET has established?

Most LCD's do not quite match similarly priced Plasma's. All of the people who work in High End Shops recommend Plasma I'm talking about tweeter, magnola, high-fi house etc. The high cost, black bars not being as black with a bright scene, Bigger size for less money and slight blooming on the XBR8 are why the Pioneer won. I consider myself unbiased and I think Plasma is winning in the PQ department they give you a real picture with amazing colors have superb motion and they don't have blinding whites like an LCD (thank god). I'll be getting the Pioneer Elite 50 incher in around 6 weeks.
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post #174 of 5404
10/16/08 at 4:51pm
I'll tell you where I'll go from here, I am getting the 46XBR8. I had pretty much decided this is the set that I really want from the beginning and all I needed was a professional reviewer having full access to all current top dogs giving me the confidence that I am making the right choice. Of course the seemingly accepted terrible black level performance of CCFL LCD's and several problems inherent in Plasma technology helped a bunch.
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post #175 of 5404
10/16/08 at 5:06pm
If we can trust the guy at CNETs review, I think he just confirmed what most of us were wanting to hear at minimum: that the XBR8 is noticeably better than the A950 in almost all ways. I was a little surprised though that he found the viewing angles were not even as good as the XBR6 or 650.

As for the Kuro Elite being better, that may be true in optimal conditions, but I think most people here aren't really considering plasma.

Based on this review, I personally don't think the XBR8 is worth the price though, and will probably have to get a drop soon.
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post #176 of 5404
10/16/08 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarek87 View Post

I consider myself unbiased and I think Plasma is winning in the PQ department they give you a real picture with amazing colors have superb motion and they don't have blinding whites like an LCD (thank god). I'll be getting the Pioneer Elite 50 incher in around 6 weeks.


You may not be be bias, but you may be slow in the head. You do know every LCD in the past 5 years are abe to lower those "blinding whites" to more natural tones via backlight? It's called options, bright for bright rooms in the day & dimmer in darker dimmer rooms.
In comparison Plasma (especially Pioneer) always have super dim whites where you have to be in a cave to not find it distracting with absolutely no options to adjust for brighter day time rooms.
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post #177 of 5404
10/16/08 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarek87 View Post

Most LCD's do not quite match similarly priced Plasma's. All of the people who work in High End Shops recommend Plasma I'm talking about tweeter, magnola, high-fi house etc. The high cost, black bars not being as black with a bright scene, Bigger size for less money and slight blooming on the XBR8 are why the Pioneer won. I consider myself unbiased and I think Plasma is winning in the PQ department they give you a real picture with amazing colors have superb motion and they don't have blinding whites like an LCD (thank god). I'll be getting the Pioneer Elite 50 incher in around 6 weeks.

It used to be the case. But now the Sony and the Samsung have both more accurate colors than the Pioneer out of the box and black levels are a tie (depending on the viewing conditions, either one is on top or the other). Overall considering both bight and dark viewing conditions, the review suggests the Sony has the edge.

LCD's now have smiliar or higher motion resolution, so Plasmas are losing with their high energy consumption, phospor lags and trails.

The Samsung is the only of all 3 TV's having receiving good in every category and is the cheapest and least power hungry...

Blinding whites? Who says a good calibration should blind you? Just calibrate better! Backlighting and contrast is probably the easiest part to get right!
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post #178 of 5404
10/16/08 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

You may not be be bias, but you may be slow in the head. You do know every LCD in the past 5 years are abe to lower those "blinding whites" to more natural tones via backlight? It's called options, bright for bright rooms in the day & dimmer in darker dimmer rooms.
In comparison Plasma (especially Pioneer) always have super dim whites where you have to be in a cave to not find it distracting with absolutely no options to adjust for brighter day time rooms.

Exactly...the calibrated Elite has around 170 peak luminance. My Dell Laptop has 210cd/m².

Plus the blacks wash out in a bright environment (who wants to switch off lights on a first date?)

That's just reality and the reason why most people are favouring LCD's for all-round viewing and projectors for home cinema viewing.

No wonder Pioneer have started LCD production...
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post #179 of 5404
10/16/08 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by puremind View Post

1- The test was conducted by Patrick Katzmeier who is notorious for his Plasma bias
2- He calibrated the set for a gamma of 2,07 and then complaines about shadow details being too light.
3- He writes that the blacks of the pioneer wah out considerably in a bright room...
4- ...but still gives the edge to the pioneer. Go figure...
5- Do you want to see something funny?



Why do I not trust the ranking Pioneer>Sony>Samsung that CNET has established?

David Katzmaier not Patrick, does seem to favor Plasmas but to look at it honestly the Kuro is better overall. I'm not saying it is above and beyond better but it is better. Unless you watch tv in very bright conditions there really is so drawback to the Kuro. As far as off angle viewing and motion resolution go which is normally 2 of the most important things to people the Kuro is clearly better.

Did you see the HDGuru results of motion resolution tests? The non Elite Kuros pretty much dusted every LCD in the test except for the Sammy. The Sammy pulled off a perfect score but only on 1 of the settings. Any other setting dropped as low as 330 out of 1080. Granted this did NOT have the XBR8 in it but motion handling has always been an area LCD's have really had to strive to overcome. The XBR8 seems to be an absolutely amazing tv, no doubt about it.

When you get down to splitting hairs though, top of the line Plasmas have more positives than negatives for most people, but not all. Next year with the supposed absolute blacks, and ability to maintain 1080 lines of resolution in motion and the 5 lumen tech to add some brightness, the Plasmas seem geared to making a pretty nice jump in quality.

I just wish I had a lot of money because I would love to have both an Elite Kuro and an XBR8. One for the main room, one for the bedroom. Ahhh to dream.
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post #180 of 5404
10/16/08 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by uni_panther View Post

David Katzmaier not Patrick, does seem to favor Plasmas but to look at it honestly the Kuro is better overall. I'm not saying it is above and beyond better but it is better. Unless you watch tv in very bright conditions there really is so drawback to the Kuro. As far as off angle viewing and motion resolution go which is normally 2 of the most important things to people the Kuro is clearly better.

Did you see the HDGuru results of motion resolution tests? The non Elite Kuros pretty much dusted every LCD in the test except for the Sammy. The Sammy pulled off a perfect score but only on 1 of the settings. Any other setting dropped as low as 330 out of 1080. Granted this did NOT have the XBR8 in it but motion handling has always been an area LCD's have really had to strive to overcome. The XBR8 seems to be an absolutely amazing tv, no doubt about it.

When you get down to splitting hairs though, top of the line Plasmas have more positives than negatives for most people, but not all. Next year with the supposed absolute blacks, and ability to maintain 1080 lines of resolution in motion and the 5 lumen tech to add some brightness, the Plasmas seem geared to making a pretty nice jump in quality.

I just wish I had a lot of money because I would love to have both an Elite Kuro and an XBR8. One for the main room, one for the bedroom. Ahhh to dream.

Off-Angle viewing is a non-issue that people will invoke when they find nothing else to criticize.

The new LED models now all have Black Frame Insertion / Backlight Scanning, which means they can resolve 1080 lines. In the CNET Tests they rate the Sony and the Samsugn at 1000 lines but we all know those tests are not very precise. Also LCDs are more versatile as they can be used as PC monitors without those annoying phospor trails.

So overall with perfect gamma, contrast, chromaticity and white balance, there is very little to chose from between Plasma and LED LCD. It all boils down to the high power consumtion and poorer performance of under bright conditions of the plasmas and the off-axis viewing quality and barely noticeable blooming of LCDs.
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