The Official AVS Digital TV Subchanel Programming Discussion Topic

In my market we have a few subs worth their bandwidth.

NBC WX+ OK don't watch it too much but it's nice to have a 24hr weather channel since I don't have cable.
TPT MN-a local PBS channel that just shows upper Midwest shows.
PBS Kids-my kids favorite channel and one reason I jumped into DTV.
PBS Create-Don't watch it much since it's SD but if you like cooking/crafts/travel programs it's nice.
PBS radar weather-24hr radar intended for the aviation people.
Qubo-another kids favorite. 24hr kids programming.
Ion Life-Not too bad but repeats most things over and over and over.......

Overall I like the subs but prefer them to be on a channel of their own with about 4 or 5 SD channels per channel. I don't care when they rob bandwidth from the main HD channels and they do rob bandwidth, even something like WX+ can make the main NBC HD channel look worse at times.

I envy your 27.2 channel. Wish we had something like that in my market.

7-2 has MyNetworkTV, which features Family Guy reruns at 7 and 7:30 plus 10PM news and all the old sitcoms that no longer air on 7-1.

10-2 is weather. Total waste.

13-2 is RTN, just like your 27-2. I like Battlestar Galactica, but that's about it.

15-1 is PBS-HD. Enough said.

15-3 is PBS World. Repetitive, but definitely has a lot of wonderful programming.

21-2/27-2 is CW. Simpsons, South Park, etc are all on here.

In my area, subchannels add a lot of value to OTA.

And here at college, it's a little less, but 41-3 is worth it.

19-2 is Weather (total waste).
27-2 is MyNetworkTV, though without some of the interesting syndicated programming that my local MyNet affil at home has.
29-3 is CW+.
29-2 is WeatherPlus (total waste).
41-1 is PBS-HD.
41-3 is MHz WorldView, a great subchannel with foreign news shows in English or other foreign programming with subtitles.

- Trip

CBS 42.2 is running RTN. I watch it more than some of the primary networks!

Don't like the PBS Create channel, or weather channels.

From Pittsburgh
4.2 Weather and Traffic
11.2 NBC Weather+ (Although this came first it's not like we need two weather channels and I wish WPXI-DT would save this bandwidth for HD and RTN)
11.3 RTN
13.1 PBS-HD
13.2 WQED analog simulcast
13.3 WQED Neighborhood (local interest)
22.2 worthless SD simulcast (was The Tube before Sinclair yanked it from their stations)
53.2 worthless SD simulcast

Sometimes from adjacent markets
8.2 WATM (Altoona ABC affiliate) from WWCP-DT Johnstown
27.2 WYFX-LP (Fox Affiliate) from WKBN-DT Youngstown

this topic should be elsewhere

it has nothing to do with CECB, any dtv receiver can view subchannels

it has everything to do with programming which is found at

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=34

which is HDTV Programming

Most subchannels don't have any HDTV Programming, just SD.

Jack squat. I'm jealous of what you have. That alone is a higher tiers on cable or satellite. If more stations did this, cable and satellite would start to worry about their monopoly.

Sub-channels add little value around here. KNBC runs their weather sub and sports/news sub, but the sports part of 4.4 is all old stuff. All I saw on it during the Olympics were the Olympic Trials.

TBN has 4 subs and the PBS stations all have subs, but no PBS World or MHz Worldview.

The only really interesting station for subs is KSCI, though they are all foreign language subs. I don't understand why some stations have SD simulcast. Is it for cable companies that don't want to convert the HD signal?

Subs were more interesting when we had The Tube and the Funimation Channel.

Sounds like RTN would be nice to have.

I think the subforum titles are a historical legacy and artifact.

The CECB subforum is inside of the HDTV area and clearly it isn't about HD resolution viewing.

The forum titles were made at a time (before my time here so I'm just speculating) that the DTV anyone wanted to make or watch or think about was HDTV. Though the CECB subforum was made since I've been here and all the CECB topics in HDTV Technical were moved.

Since that early time of HDTV the DTV has developed to include both HDTV and SDTV. So for practical purposes all DTV is in the HDTV area and DTV programming is in the HDTV Programming.

Since any DTV receiver can get the subchannels it is not a topic restricted to CECB. Since it is taking about programming and not hardware it also belongs elsewhere.

Yes, but I'd gladly sacrifice every one of them for better picture quality on the main channels.

Besides, there's no real reason why they can't just add those few good programs back on the mains.

Other than greed, which is always a good reason for them, I suppose.

You're right, of course.

But actually, it belongs on the "Cable, Digital Cable, Non-HD" forum. That's generally where all SD-related programming is discussed.

One good weather channel is enough, in my opinion. Can skimp on the bandwith all they want, too.

WMAR 2.1 ABC HD Programing
WMAR 2.2 ABC SD Version
WMAR 2.3 ABC Baltimore Weather Channel
WBAL 11.1 NBC Programing
WBAL 11.2 Weather+
WJZ 13.1 CBS Programing
WUTB 24.1 MyNetwork Programing
WWPB 31.1 PBS (MPT) HD programing
WWPB 31.2 PBS (MPT) SD Programing - Select
WWPB 31.3 PBS (MPT) Vme
WVPY 42.1 PBS (VA) HD Programing
WVPY 42.2 PBS (VA) SD Programing - Create
WVPY 42.3 PBS (VA) ED Vme
WBFF 45.1 FOX Baltimore
WBFF 45.2 Good TV
WNUV 54.1 CW Programing
WWPX 60.1 iON Programing
WWPX 60.2 Qubo
WWPX 60.3 iON Life
WWPX 60.4 Worship
WJAL 68.1 Independent

It seems like all these subchannels are just determined by the network themselves. In other words, it is not the local station that puts out weather 24/7 or airs old sports. They are just carrying the same feed as everybody else. Only unique programming seems to be coming from the few independent stations.

These channels are relatively new, so maybe they just have trouble obtaining programming right now. I am hoping that once that transition is complete, the audience of these subchannels will grow & stabilize so the networks will be more willing to air new/different shows in the future.

Nope.


Nope. The HDTV Programming Forum is specifically for HDTV. The only exception is FOX & PBS widescreen programs.

Because we don't have a specific forum, and because CECB users are interested in SD programming, as opposed to HD STB users who in general could care less about SD, we're going to let this one ride, for all SD programming.

You know what they say, once you go HD, you never go back.


.....except if you get stuck moderating one of these forums....

Exactly. The local engineer said it was local management's decision to run RTN. Evidently, there was not much enthusiasm but they decided to give it a try anyway. Surprise, surprise it is a real winner.

RTN however is a new network and they have yet to learn the ins and outs of proper transmission. At least that's what the local engineer said - it has presented problems for them and it still has kinks in it because the newbies at RTN are in learning mode.

Expect more subchannels along the lines of RTN once analog goes byebye and digital gets cooking. FWIW, engineers can't wait to turn off their analog transmission. Will make things much easier for them and digital will improve.

At this point only the Gray TV stations (KOLN Lincoln, NE and WIBW Topeka, KS) seem to be doing anything with their sub channels. Both are listed as My Network TV, but each seems to carry different programming at least according to TitanTV. KLKN out of Lincoln is running an SD simulcast on their sub channel which is kind of pointless as it's washed out compared to their HD channel. KTKA out of Topeka is airing weather on their sub. I understand that KSNT out of Topeka is carrying their sister FOX station on their sub right now, but they're not strong enough up here for me to see.

It looks like KSNB out of Superior, NE will carry RTN as well after the transition which should be worth something.

It's not just a question of what a particular poster considers "worth watching" but also of what's on main channels vs. subchannels in the poster's area.

Some markets (such as the one where I live) receive CW and MyNetworkTV on main channels; many others get one or both of them on subchannels.  So two people who agree on what's "worth watching" may disagree about whether it's on a subchannel.

The networks only directly control what their owned and operated (O&O) stations air. CBS Corporation owns 14 CBS stations and 15 stations that are affiliated with The CW, My Network TV, or independent. Disney ABC Television Group owns 10 ABC stations. NBC Universal Television Group owns 10 NBC stations and 16 Telemundo stations. News Corp owns 17 FOX stations and 10 My Network TV stations.

Federal Communications Commission regulations limit the number of television stations owned by any company to a maximum combined 39.5% of the country.

The four major nets own 92 stations total. According to NAB figures, there are 1631 DTV stations in 210 TV markets.

For alternative programming, NBC has Weather Plus (to be discontinued before 12/31/08) and recently added Universal Sports (ex-WCSN) in 13 markets. ABC, CBS and FOX do not offer alternative programming at this time.

Network affiliates (non-O&O stations) can chose to air any programming that want; they are not contractually bound to air primary network programming, let alone alternative network programming.

RTN has a heavily compressed picture; even when viewed on a SD CRT. (I can only imagine how bad it would look on an HD set)

Is this because of the local OTA station; or is it heavily compressed from the get go?

Thanks!!

I think for the Olympics rerun, it is on NBC's Universal Sports Channel. Before the Olympics, the channel was carried by only a few subchannels. Now, it is over 20. I would guess that their goal would be to increase that even more.

you miss the point he made.

i have a situation like he described. i can get some stations from two markets of different size. in the larger market CW and MyTV have a station and so that content is on a main channel. in the smaller market there are two stations which are major network affiliates that are broadcasting one of those minor networks on a subchannel.

so would discussions of programming on those networks be included in a discussion of subchannels or not. that was his point.

You didn't understand, but Johnpost did.  What's on a -2 or -3 in one AVS mmber's market may be on a -1 in another AVS member's market.  Thus, two people may love the same show but one will see it on a subchannel and list it here, while the other will see it on a main channel and won't list it here.
Dispute them?  I never commented on them at all.

I've got several that are identical on the -1 and -2 or -3 subs. Don't really see the purpose in that unless they just haven't figured out what else to put there yet.

Several where at least one of the subs is blank.

The WX subs of course although one of the stations fills it with self serving promos instead of WX.

A CW or two and some MyNetworks depending on where the rotor is pointed and the time of day or environmental conditions.

KET (Kentucky's PBS) runs identical programming on about 8 sets of channels, two of the subs are basically state C-Span.

I'd love to have an RTN sub.

All in all, I'm wondering why I'm concerned about getting OTA programming. With all the game shows masquerading as television, there is really only a couple of hours of OTA TV a week worth watching. I try to catch a few minutes of local news every day or two, but even most of that is promos.