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Breaking Bad on AMCHD - Page 70

post #2071 of 4072
Walt's a criminal, any way you want to slice it .. given all the evidence, there is no jury in the land that would not convict him on multiple counts .. and insanity .. ?? Come on now ..

I will say Walt exhibits some degree of Sociopath, none of which would make insanity a plea .. since most criminals exhibit some degree of this ..

Grandiose Sense of Self
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
Shallow Emotions
Living on the edge
Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
Conventional appearance
post #2072 of 4072
I said it was one way of looking at him smile.gif It's useful to view things from different angles to get a full picture. Criminal acts don't make a criminal, except in the eyes of the law. His mindset isn't that of a criminal - you want to see a criminal on TV, Boyd Crowder makes a fine example. Walt's a malignant narcissist existing in a criminal world, and it will be his downfall I predict. Turn it around - Mike was a criminal by my definition, and what happened to him? He failed to accurately predict Walt's behavior, and died for it - different mindset. Like most humans, Mike blindly assumed Walt thought like him, as a criminal, but Walt's got a whole other agenda, he's nuts. Same could be said of Gus. Mistaking the commission of criminal behavior as evidence of a criminal mind was a terminal mistake for both of them.
post #2073 of 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

I said it was one way of looking at him smile.gif It's useful to view things from different angles to get a full picture. Criminal acts don't make a criminal, except in the eyes of the law. His mindset isn't that of a criminal - you want to see a criminal on TV, Boyd Crowder makes a fine example. Walt's a malignant narcissist existing in a criminal world, and it will be his downfall I predict. Turn it around - Mike was a criminal by my definition, and what happened to him? He failed to accurately predict Walt's behavior, and died for it - different mindset. Like most humans, Mike blindly assumed Walt thought like him, as a criminal, but Walt's got a whole other agenda, he's nuts. Same could be said of Gus. Mistaking the commission of criminal behavior as evidence of a criminal mind was a terminal mistake for both of them.

That's some pretty off beat logic .. criminal acts don't make a criminal .. ?? I guess that's why all prisoners claim they are innocent ..

Walt's a criminal, by any definition ..
post #2074 of 4072
A successful criminal (ie, one that lives) has to be 5 or 6 steps ahead of all of those around him. That was Gus' and Mike's downfall.
post #2075 of 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73shark View Post

A successful criminal (ie, one that lives) has to be 5 or 6 steps ahead of all of those around him. That was Gus' and Mike's downfall.
Or just get elected to Congress. smile.gif
Edited by keenan - 9/1/12 at 2:18pm
post #2076 of 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

That's some pretty off beat logic .. criminal acts don't make a criminal .. ?? I guess that's why all prisoners claim they are innocent ..
Walt's a criminal, by any definition ..

That's why I said "in the eyes of the law." You judge an act by it's effect, and a man by his motive. We're all using the word "criminal" in different contexts so it's confusing. If a criminal act is one punishable by law, then a bunch of politicians are deciding what's criminal, and a person may disagree. If you set aside legality, then we just have behavior and motive. Walt's motive is to be king of the world, his world is populated by criminals, so he commits criminal acts. But his motivation isn't informed by a criminal mind, it's informed by a crazy mind. He's far more unpredictable than your basic criminal, as Mike found out.
post #2077 of 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by fjames View Post

That's why I said "in the eyes of the law." You judge an act by it's effect, and a man by his motive. We're all using the word "criminal" in different contexts so it's confusing. If a criminal act is one punishable by law, then a bunch of politicians are deciding what's criminal, and a person may disagree. If you set aside legality, then we just have behavior and motive. Walt's motive is to be king of the world, his world is populated by criminals, so he commits criminal acts. But his motivation isn't informed by a criminal mind, it's informed by a crazy mind. He's far more unpredictable than your basic criminal, as Mike found out.

It's not confusing to me at all .. there is no gray area .. there is no context .. you commit a crime, you are a criminal ..

Try using your context with a Judge ..
post #2078 of 4072
If breaking a law defines you as a criminal then I'm pretty sure almost everyone is one.....ever get a traffic ticket?
post #2079 of 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by colour View Post

If breaking a law defines you as a criminal then I'm pretty sure almost everyone is one.....ever get a traffic ticket?

Traffic tickets are usually not criminal violations unless they are severe such as DUIs.
post #2080 of 4072
I am again flabbergasted. The motives of a murderer do not matter, he's a murderer. Walter White is a multiple murderer, and deserves the death penalty for it.

Walter completely understands what he is doing. He has displayed no real remorse since strangling the drug dealer in Jesse's basement. Murder is now just a means to an end and he has rationalized even the murder of an innocent child as a regrettable necessity.

Walter's cancer does not justify his behavior. His motives don't justify anything either - he figured out that he needed $275,000 to ensure the security of his family after his death, but his family is no longer any form of motive. He is now driven by lust for power and control, another motive entirely. He could have run for political office, he chose instead to become a master criminal and multiple murderer. He deserves the death penalty several times over, and no talk of motives or madness should intrude in his sentance. He has never stopped understanding right from wrong, he just does not care any longer, as long as he achieves his goals.

I say again, he's the worst form of criminal, and one of the worst ever portrayed on TV.
post #2081 of 4072
I don't think that the issue is whether Walt should be punished or not. Clearly he should be and I don't think anyone has said anything to the contrary. The issue I'm getting is whether or not Walt fits the "typical" profile of a criminal, and specifically how motive and/or mindset plays a part.
post #2082 of 4072
I think most everybody is "right" here, nevertheless disagreement ferments. Let me play the peacemaker, as I often do. wink.gif

Gary is right in that Walt has killed people, thus he's a criminal according to any civilized standard. He's put people, even his kindly next door neighbor ferpetesake, in danger of being killed. He rationalizes everything as a struggle for survival for himself and "his family". BullHocky - this stopped being about the benefit of his family long ago.

But fjames is also right. Walt doesn't fit the profile of an habitual criminal who simply views illegal activity as the only way to make one's way in the world. He came into the game late. It's not his fault he found himself to be especially good at it. tongue.gif Furthermore, his original crime - producing a drug to fill a demand - is exactly what CEO's of major pharmaceutical companies get paid equivalent compensation to do every day. (And Walt envies his former partners who took that "respectable" path to fabulous wealth.)

How many people have become pathologically addicted to prescription narcotic pain relievers? I would submit a lot more than a certain organic herb that treats many of the same conditions in a much more benign and effective way. And so it goes. He who makes the laws (and rakes in the campaign contributions and lobbying dollars) gets to say what's criminal behavior and what's not.

But then we return to Gary's point: The guy's now a murderer. That really sort of ends the "criminality" debate, doesn't it?
post #2083 of 4072
And of course, the season's over, so we gotta talk about something tongue.gif
post #2084 of 4072
Crystal Blue Persuasion...indeed

Walter Heisenburg is scary evil and efficent....

Jesse was soooooo scared..and he should have been.

That jail hit montange was Epic.....

Breaking Bad is the best show on TV by a wide margin..easily.
post #2085 of 4072
I just knew Walt was going to use Todd's connections to kill the 9 plus the lawyer. You could get a feel of it by watching last week's preview.

I thought there might be something in that bag though.

Next summer, we see the final 8 of one of the best shows ever and cannot wait for the confrontation between Walt and Hank.
post #2086 of 4072
I don't think the Hank issue will play out like you might think. He's got to consider the family issues before acting on anything. Marie is a force to be reckoned with. If he takes this to Walt, he might get an offer he can't refuse.
post #2087 of 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

Breaking Bad is the best show on TV by a wide margin..easily.

Honestly this is a show I feel privileged to watch. No cord cutting for me until this joy ride is over.
post #2088 of 4072
Just saw last week's episode. Poor Mike. frown.gif
post #2089 of 4072
WOE! It's going to be a long winter, gee-sh can't we get a little taste of next season's epi, and I don't mean how it began this season.

What a head trip, I'm still shaking eek.gif

DJoel
post #2090 of 4072
LOL, they opened with Godfather and closed with Godfather Part III. Loved the montage, nicely done.

Poor Hank, what's he gonna do now?
post #2091 of 4072
Was the Whitman book from Gale? My CRS prevents me from remembering. wink.gif

And the song by Tommy James and the Shondells was classic. Interestingly enuf, he said that people who didn't understand the song thought it was about drugs. How prophetic. biggrin.gif
post #2092 of 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73shark View Post

Was the Whitman book from Gale?

The inscription was signed "G.B."
post #2093 of 4072
Man, Walt all genious and keeps that book lying around in the house...

Gale Boetticher, clearly the G.B. on the book..

BTW a lot of reminders of previous episodes, the "fly" stands out but there are others

http://imgur.com/a/pZZGv
post #2094 of 4072
Brilliant finale,you know the loose ends would be tied up in prison. That song "Crystal Blue Persuasion" should be the theme song of this series.. What exactly was the inscription in the book? When Walt closed the garage door on Jesse, reminded me of the scene where Al Pacino closed the door on the face of his wife at the house.. The fly should get paid for all the appearances it is making..biggrin.gif Have to watch the last episode again..
post #2095 of 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLar View Post

Man, Walt all genious and keeps that book lying around in the house...
Gale Boetticher, clearly the G.B. on the book..
BTW a lot of reminders of previous episodes, the "fly" stands out but there are others
http://imgur.com/a/pZZGv

As I cogitate on this episode, the book in the crapper seems a pretty stupid way to get brought down from a writing standpoint. Walt knows that his brother-in-law is at his house all the time. All he needs to do is to tear out the dedication page. Loved the scene with Walt at Jesse's house.
post #2096 of 4072
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxman48 View Post

.. The fly should get paid for all the appearances it is making..biggrin.gif Have to watch the last episode again..

I want the job of "fly wrangler" on this show. I wonder how long it takes them to get those shots, or if they are CG.
post #2097 of 4072
When Walt was washing up after the CAT scan, we see the paper towel dispenser dented from a punch out...was this from Walt's initial visit or was it a fresh dent?
post #2098 of 4072
Maybe a fresh dent, and I'm guessing the cat scan revealed the cancer isn't coming back, hence he has to live with the consequences of his actions and no idea what to do with all tha cash (also being with cold shouldered Skyler for a long while)
post #2099 of 4072
Good observation about the dent. Does Walt want to be caught leaving that book there when Hank is a regular at his house? I don't think Hank will do anything considering the Kingpin of drugs was under his nose all the time (bro-in-law) . Also Hank took Walt's money for rehab but in his defense, didn't know where the money came from. Walt and Jesse are stronger together for the series, hope there is a change of heart from Jesse. Guess the Feds still have the lawyer locked up but everyone turns up dead around him..
post #2100 of 4072
What an episode, I have to re-watch it today to absorb everything. Once again brilliantly directed by Michelle MacLaren. What was the song during the "'Jail extermination" scenes??? The Godfather was all over it, a bit of Soprano's and Goodfellas. Think there was 5 million in the bag Walt gave to Jessie??? How unbelievable is "learn how to take yes for an answer" Lydia ... BTW, way earlier post Walt was trying to get to 725 +K.... We gotta wait a year to wrap it up????
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