Should I buy the Samsung 55LNA950 or the Pioneer Pro 111fd?

I would personally go for the 55LNA950. Especially since it's cheaper and bigger. I know the Pio is amazing but so is the 950 and bigger + cheaper = win! Besides, do you really want to worry about image retention/burn-in since you always find yourself pausing a lot?

My goodness, such misinformation.

Show me one instance of anyone with a Pro-111fd and burn-in. Or even 2007 or 2008 Kuro for that matter



To the OP, Don't let anyone (mainly LCD owners) convince you that you should worry about burn-in on the 111fd. You should be worying about the things that matter like motion performance, contrast, color accuracy, color saturation, and black levels.
And the 111fd beats the 950 in all these aspects.

The 950 is a little better at maintaining its black level during heavily brightened environments. But the Pro-111FD is close.
Also, the 950's bright environment performance is heavily dropped by its super reflective panel. Glare will be an issue on the 950.
So all-in-all, The Pro-111fd outperforms the 950 in bright environments also.
In normal lighting conditions the 111fd does great, and at night or during the day with the shades partially closed, The 111 if in a totally different class than the 950

Just to be fair, there was one person who bought a 5080 floor model that had burn-in not to long ago, but it was also left on the same station for a long time as well. (look a few posts down in the topic)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1072909

Still haven't found a case of burn-in with a normal kuro unit though.

Seems like Chad did not like what I typed about the Pio. I'm guessing he owns a Pioneer? Btw, IR does occur and to an obviously lesser extent, burn-in does as well. I never typed anything about how easy it was to get burn-in though...

You should really check them both out @ your nearest electronics store and make sure to mess with the picture settings to match your picture preference. I'd go for the 950 but that's just me.

IR and burn-in are next to imposible on a Pioneer Kuro (I've tried on a brand new out of the box 5010, and couldn't even get IR to show up), what I posted is the first and only case of burn-in on a Kuro that has any real credibility (and it is a floor model left on the same station for a long time, maybe as long as the 5080 has been available) No owners that have bought their sets new have reported any burn-in (and there has only been 1 or 2 reports of IR on a Kuro at that)

Personally I would stay away from the 950 for the very same reason that most avoid plasma, burn-in. (or to be proper, uneven wear) the LED array on the 950 is phosphor coated and has a half life of 50k hours, half that of the average plasma. Thanks to a few functions found on these LED TVs (namely local dimming) it is very possible to get uneven wear in just a few short years. I fully expect the first reports from 81 series owners to start coming in, in around another 1-2 years of their backlight being unevenly worn. Not to mention that each individual bulb will age at a slightly different rate as well so this will probably be much worse than uneven wear on a plasma. (which happens on a per pixel basis)

How can you say it's next to impossible for burn-in to occur on the Pio and then mention burn-in on a floor model? I'm sure there's more instances of burn-in but not everyone that owns a Pio has an account here @ AVS.

Btw, can you link me to some posts regarding owners having issues with burn-in on the 950 model? Thanks.

Sorry, but it is still too soon for uneven wear to start popping up on the LED LCDs, they don't get IR like most plasma sets do, so you don't really have any warning that it is coming until one day you notice that your screen is brighter where the black bars were. This is a future looking problem, not an immediate one, and a lot of owners aren't going to be happy when it starts to turn up.

And LCD fans and Pioneer haters alike have been hunting for a long time trying to find cases of burn-in on a Kuro, and so far that one case of a demo model that has been running the same loop for who knows how long, is the only case to surface on the net.

That's cool and all but fact is, there is a case of burn-in on a Kuro so it's not like it hasn't happend. Like I stated before, there's probably more cases but not everyone posts on the internet about it. I'm not hating on the Kuru because if I had the cash, I'd buy one myself. Just making a point that it IS possible to get burn-in on a Kuro.

As for the 950 and uneven wear, couldn't you say the same about any Plasma? For all we know, it might not end up being a big problem like you're trying to make it out to be. Nobody knows for sure.

Read this topic from the post I linked to and on, it explains a lot of how LEDs can unevenly wear. (and yes, it is a bigger issue than that with plasma sets, due to the much shorter half life, and faster brightness dropoff of LED bulbs as they age)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post14673484

I absolutely agree. "Burn In" is an urban myth. I've sold and installed 100's of plasma TV's over the last 10 years and have had just 2 clients with a "Burn -In" problem. BOTH OF THESE PEOPLE HAD CRT TELEVISIONS. Pioneer Elite Plasma ABSOLUTELY SMOKES ANY LCD TV; especially the Samsung.

Until the 950 models age, we won't know for sure how big the problem is. Thanks for the info though.

Well we have 1 post regarding burn-in on his Pio Kuro and I used to own a Pansonic 50PX80u that had burn-in after only an hour of playing Madden 2009 for the Xbox 360. I thought it was IR but after a week I could still see the score ticker at the top middle portion of the screen. Btw, I tried running full screen content for a week and it did not help.

Sorry about that, we couldn't find a Wal-Mart generic brand to compare on short notice.

I'd read through these threads before buying a plasma, especially a Pioneer:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/plasm...2007040133.htm
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1030379
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=plasma+rbe

Get the Samsung A950!

Well, the TC of that Kuro burn-in topic posted the usage hours and conditions, and to be fair, even an LCD would be in trouble with these conditions.


And that is with a static logo on the loop at all times. It takes your average LCD around 2000 hours to develop burn-in so the conditions that Kuro was put through would probably do some damage to any flat panel display.

As for your 50px80, I know that Madden is bad for IR, but I have never heard of a set getting lasting IR or burn-in after only one hour of play, sounds like it was either a defective set, or IR, did you ever play the game again after you saw the IR?

I stopped playing once I noticed the score ticker was still there a few days after I had stopped playing. I'm hoping it was just a bad set. It was my first Plasma so it didn't leave a great impression on me.

I had a very similar experiance with a Samsung 4254 plasma, though gaming IR faded fast, I liked to tweak the menu and channel surf, well the TV menu, channel info box, and volume slider all burned in (much like in your case, it didn't go away after 2 weeks, and apparently, this is a common story with Samsung's 720p models) I almost gave up on plasma after that. But I gave it one more shot a few months after that and got a Panasonic 42px75 and just abused it during week one, IR faded FAST, I was shocked at just how much better it was. I played through Halo 3 in week one (did my first legendary run in week 2) and the IR faded within 20 minutes of switching to a DVD (average play time was 3 hours each session) I have since put well over 200 hours into Oblivion on my plasma and have no adverse effects from it. IR fades much quicker now that my set is broken in. (and yes, I still tweak the picture settings quite often, and get no real IR from it)

In short, just because you got one bad unit, don't let it scare you away from the tech, give it another chance and you might be pleasantly surprised.

I did end up giving Plasma's another go. I ended up buying the 50PZ85u. I haven't checked for IR or burn-in since the last model shat on me and I'm too scared to look.

I would be watching it like a hawk and taking notes of how long the IR stuck around each time. (I still time the IR on my set on occasion, like after playing my SNES for an hour)

I'll check it out tonight. Btw, why do you still play SNES? Can't let go of the classics eh?

Hey, don't dis the classics.

Is this specific to phosphor coated leds? Would the new Sonys with RGB leds (so i hear) last longer.

Cya

Yea, I read that over and it appears that he bought a 5080 floor model that had been stuck on the same channel for over 6 months with the orbitor turned OFF. The poster mentions that he found that the orbitor was turned off on post#14.
In that situation, its possible that an LCD might even get burned in.
I guess I should re-phrase my statement to
"there is no record of a Kuro getting burn-in without major abuse and the anti-burn-in feature (orbitor) being turned off".


Actually,
It is also "possible" to get burn-in on LCD. But should you worry about it??? NO.
and one big factor about that ONE instance of a kuro getting Burn-in was the fact that the Orbitor was turned off.

It depends on how they work, are the LED coated with RGB phosphors? If not they will still probably unevenly age with the local dim function, and then there is the possibility that each color will age at a different rate as well so that is a concern as well. No tech is perfect, but LCD makers seem to be all too eager to adopt plasma weakness to get a slightly better PQ. (and at the same time, lose several LCD strengths)

Personally, I would never buy a LED LCD, if I am going to buy into the LCD tech (and get an LCD), I'll be doing so to get away from plasma's weakness, and I don't want those same weakness in the LCD I buy.

AFAIK the sony rgb leds are phosphor coated.

I have seen LCD TV's with burn in. Occured within 6 months of displaying almost static images.

Anyone else notice the MSRP of the LN55A950 jump from $4199 to $4999 in the last week? I was just getting ready to take the plunge, but now I'm not so sure...

Samsung raised the MSRP at the beginning of September.

After trying out the 950 today I get the feeling it is just the same as the 81 series except that it has AMP (120Hz). Is this correct??

One thing that I noticed that was disturbing was that you could actually see the physical LED zones light up??? I don't remember the 81 being that bad.

It was also by far the brightest eye burning display in the store. Maybe that is why I could see the zones as the LEDs were just way to bright. After about 20 minutes even in bright ambient light my eyes were sore watching this thing.

On certain scenes in the BB environment it did outperform every display including the Kuros IMO. But overall I didn't like the PQ that much. It almost looks clayface like at times. Remember way back in the Panny clayface days

You do realize how ridiculous this sounds correct? Pausing a lot?

I do not disagree in respect to price and size, but I would have to disagree in this instance, given the OP's criteria.




A static image for a period of 6months isn't exactly ideal.


When you say things like "Besides, do you really want to worry about [b]image retention/burn-in since you always find yourself pausing a lot", it is exactly what you are insinuating.


One must read before using any information as proof. It truly does discredit your opinion, and shows extreme bias.

Rather difficult to link to posts regarding BI on a 950, seeing as they just hit the scene.


Especially Pioneer? Why is that? Because you own the Samsung, and if others choose the it over the Pioneer, it makes you feel better about your decision?

Phophor trails are a problem, but for a select few. It has more to do with an individuals brain functionality, and it's ability to see them. These people are also bothered by motion blur, plainbows on DLP's etc. Unlike motion blur on LCDs which is a problem, and noticable to everyone.


Not just a possibility, but a concern for LCD owners, as just recently there was a report of a Samsung owner with Burn IN on his LCD.

The post regarding BI on my behalf is a fear tactic, because the probability of BI is unlikely on an LCD (just as is on a tier 1 plasma). I wanted to show those who post regarding BI on Pioneers how ridiculous it is to read something like this.

The LED based LCDs have the typical flaws of those with CCFL, and then some. They have even poorer off axis viewing angles, blooming, inferior on/off contrast(poor shadow detail in comparison), native contrast(inferior black levels when not staring at an all black screen), an color accuracy (truly insignificant on this one, because they truly are fantastic when it comes to CA).

Before anyone even thinks about mentioning white levels, that is bogus. Anyone that has put the Pio through its paces, will see that the Pio has no problem producing white whites. D-Nice has been kind of to provide us with the numbers, which are in the thread below this one asking the same question.

Note, those who look at the 950, and think it produces whiter whites, let me let you in a little secret. Whites are not supposed to have a blue tint to them.