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Samsung PN50A450 — audio vibration issue

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
About a week ago, I picked up a new PN50A450 from Best Buy. It has the audio problem that others have mentioned some part of the case or chassis vibrates when the speakers play sounds at low frequencies (around 120-140 Hz).

This is actually my second PN50A450 with this problem. I had picked up the first one a few days prior, and exchanged it for the one I have now.

The problem is not simply that the speakers are trying to reproduce frequencies below their capability. Rather, they're hitting the resonant frequency of something in the case.

The problem isn't evident until I turn up the volume level high enough on the louder side of what you might normally use for a quiet room. For my DTiVo, perhaps 12-15. For local OTA HD stations, closer to 20. All of my EQ settings are still on the factory defaults.

Keep in mind that your levels may be different depending on the loudness of your audio source.

I initially noticed it while watching a program with a deep-voiced male speaking, but found a tone generator program to pin down the frequencies:
NCH Tone Generator v1.03
(Google "freeware tone generator" to find this and others)

Run the program on a PC or laptop, and connect the audio to one of the TV's inputs. Note that the TV won't let you switch to an input unless it sees video there. I temporarily connected my laptop's audio in place of my satellite receiver's audio.

If you choose "Constant (Continuous)" tone, the program will let you change the frequency while it's still playing.

The vibration stops when I squeeze the bottom of the TV's cabinet underneath each speaker. Then I can crank the volume even louder and still not hear the vibration.

People have reported this problem in reviews on several different sites, leading me to believe it's a design flaw with this model. I suspect the reason more people haven't noticed is because A) many owners shut off the speakers and use a home theater system right out of the box, and B) others normally don't turn up the volume quite enough for the problem to be obvious.

I'd be very interested to hear test results from other PN50A450 owners. Do your built-in speakers do this? If so, at what frequencies? Be sure to mention your set's mfr. date.


If most PN50A450s do this, there would be little point in exchanging for a new one. Conversely, if a large enough percentage don't, then it would be worthwhile to do a swap.


BTW, my firmware version is 1016.1, with "compile date August 12, 2008." The TV's manufacture date is "September 2008."

[I had originally posted this message here in the Samsung PN50A450 Offical Owners Thread, but transplanted it here so the discussion doesn't get lost in the ongoing flood in that thread]
post #2 of 50
Thread Starter 
A few more observations:

The output level of the NCH program is a little lower than another program I tried previously (Burninwave Generator). With NCH, I had to raise the TV's volume a little higher.

The vibration problem does occur at lower volume settings on the TV, but is much harder to hear over the tone being emitted by the speaker.

When you connect an RCA plug to just the Right channel (at least on input AV1), the TV plays the audio on both L and R speakers. When anything is physically plugged into the L jack then the R jack goes only to the R speaker. In other words, R is the "mono" input. This is opposite of other devices (connecting only to L input = mono = sound to both speakers).
post #3 of 50
I have the buzz on my set as well. It's really noticeable during playback of "Fringe" but I can also hear it during other programming (normally deep male voices). I've tried different inputs, (e.g. HDMI, component) but still the same. If I use a custom EQ setting, lowering the low freq and turn off the surround simulator it sounds better...but still worrisome.
post #4 of 50
I personally do not hear any vibrations/rattling on my set, but then it had me wonder....is it because I have my plasma mounted on it's stand and not on the wall?

Does it produce these vibrations while mounted on the wall or on it's stand?

Perhaps the stand somehow keeps the frame or a specific part from the set from rattling/vibrating.
post #5 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RYAXIN View Post

I personally do not hear any vibrations/rattling on my set, but then it had me wonder....is it because I have my plasma mounted on it's stand and not on the wall?

Does it produce these vibrations while mounted on the wall or on it's stand?

Perhaps the stand somehow keeps the frame or a specific part from the set from rattling/vibrating.

Mine is mounted on the included swivel stand also, and I most definitely have the chasis distortion/resonance/rattle problem.

As others have stated, different inputs and mode settings have different default sound equalization settings. And of course one can set one's custom equalizations to lessen the distortion at "lower" volumes, but it's there at the "higher" volumes eventually. I quoted "higher" because 28-35 is probably really not that high. I imagine the 10 watt amp is only outputting 1-2 watts in that range.

Although I could probably easily live with it(if I decide to keep it), it's just annoying that I can't really enjoy the experience without connecting to an external sound system.

Oh well, I guess I've been "rattling" off enough about this in the official thread, so just tally my vote here.

I bought in on the Sept 24 BB deal also, and my tv was delivered on the 10/1.

Any one checked into the return terms and conditions for special delivery items? They are not listed online. You have to call to find out.
post #6 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwighttsharpe View Post

Mine is mounted on the included swivel stand also, and I most definitely have the chasis distortion/resonance/rattle problem.

As others have stated, different inputs and mode settings have different default sound equalization settings. And of course one can set one's custom equalizations to lessen the distortion at "lower" volumes, but it's there at the "higher" volumes eventually. I quoted "higher" because 28-35 is probably really not that high. I imagine the 10 watt amp is only outputting 1-2 watts in that range.

Although I could probably easily live with it(if I decide to keep it), it's just annoying that I can't really enjoy the experience without connecting to an external sound system.

Oh well, I guess I've been "rattling" off enough about this in the official thread, so just tally my vote here.

I bought in on the Sept 24 BB deal also, and my tv was delivered on the 10/1.

Any one checked into the return terms and conditions for special delivery items? They are not listed online. You have to call to find out.


Well, so much for my theory....on the flip side, I just put up my volume to 70 and no distortion at all. But I still refuse to believe it is a defect with the TV for those who are experiencing this vibration/distortion issue. For what it's worth, I did lower the bass level just a bit and increased the midrange and tremble on the onscreen Sound EQ setting.
post #7 of 50
Quote:


David 42 said:...If most PN50A450s do this, there would be little point in exchanging for a new one. Conversely, if a large enough percentage don't, then it would be worthwhile to do a swap....

I pretty much agree with you dead on there. Maybe not most, but certainly a not so insignificant proportion. Either live with it, which is not too hard, or just give up on it and return. I am choosing the latter because of that and the many other shortcomings of my sample. Now, combining with the bad sound, I'm starting to notice the "green haze" issue in mine. Also exhibiting the tendency of being easily susceptible to burn in-image retention.

ps: I'm in Atlanta too, although I had my set delivered. Where'd you find the date of mfr? Didn't see it on the set back or the box.
post #8 of 50
Thread Starter 
Mine is on the swivel pedestal that came with it. The parts that are vibrating are near the bottom edge, near each speaker. So it won't matter how it's mounted — both types of mounts attach far away from what's vibrating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RYAXIN View Post

... on the flip side, I just put up my volume to 70 and no distortion at all. But I still refuse to believe it is a defect with the TV for those who are experiencing this vibration/distortion issue.

A lot of different people have mentioned this problem: here on AVS, and in customer reviews on Best Buy's site and PriceGrabber, and others. I got two different sets in a row that have this problem. There's no way it's a coincidence. And it's not just older or newer units — my current one is practically fresh off the assembly line, and some of the reviews that mention this are months old.

The problem requires both loud enough volume and hitting the right resonant frequencies. I agree, 70 should be loud enough, but did you try testing with the tone generator program? Try running a sweep from 60 to 180 Hz, with a period of 5000ms (slow enough so you can estimate where it is as it goes). Temporarily set your EQ back to the factory levels (especially the bass).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwighttsharpe View Post

... Where'd you find the date of mfr? Didn't see it on the set back or the box.

It's in the middle of the model number sticker on the back, between the AC voltage/current specs and "Made in Tijuana Mexico". Just has month and year.
post #9 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by David 42 View Post

...The problem requires both loud enough volume and hitting the right resonant frequencies. I agree, 70 should be loud enough, but did you try testing with the tone generator program? Try running a sweep from 60 to 180 Hz, with a period of 5000ms (slow enough so you can estimate where it is as it goes). Temporarily set your EQ back to the factory levels (especially the bass).


It's in the middle of the model number sticker on the back, between the AC voltage/current specs and "Made in Tijuana Mexico". Just has month and year.

Ok. Yeah, my set was made Sept 08 also(in Mexico).

The perfect tone to demonstrate the distortion/buzz is the Tivo "bong". Not the "boop boop", just the bong. Every time, and almost no matter how low the volume is set, the "bong" is obviously distorted. Never heard it in either of my tube sets(1 retired and picked up), or when connected to stereo.

As a last straw, the set now seems to exhibit the "green haze" syndrome.

Whatever. BB is coming Mon to pick up for refund.

Oh well.
post #10 of 50
Sorry about your issues dwight. Mine has a march build date and I have no issues with it at all. Sound is very good, I use custom settings, on a stand and can crank the sound with no distortion. Normally I am under 20 though, but I have tested it over 20 and still no issues. Hopefully another brand will serve you better.
post #11 of 50
I figured out the sound vibration issue regarding the PN50A450.

The sound vibration issue (emminating from the TV speakers) is NOT a TV defect.

From the start I had component cables connected from my HD receiver to the Plasma. On the TV remote, I had selected (from the 'source' button on the top right) Component 1 Cable STB. With this setting, I am able to crank up the volume to 100 with no distortion or any type of vibration in any way shape or form.

Yesterday I picked up an HDTV cable to replace the component cables for my HD receiver. BIG mistake! ......read on.

Selecting the HDMI2 output from the TV's remote, the sound was distorted from any volume level I put it at, be it at 10 or even 5.

I also noticed that the overall picture quality is greatly increased with the component cables, I do use an HDTV cable for the Panasonic home theater which works very well, this is under HDMI1.

I am convinced, the vibration issue many of us are experiencing is all based on the setup and is not an issue with the TV.

I hope this helps you guys and gals out!
post #12 of 50
Bump!!
post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RYAXIN View Post

I figured out the sound vibration issue regarding the PN50A450.

The sound vibration issue (emminating from the TV speakers) is NOT a TV defect.

From the start I had component cables connected from my HD receiver to the Plasma. On the TV remote, I had selected (from the 'source' button on the top right) Component 1 Cable STB. With this setting, I am able to crank up the volume to 100 with no distortion or any type of vibration in any way shape or form.

Yesterday I picked up an HDTV cable to replace the component cables for my HD receiver. BIG mistake! ......read on.

Selecting the HDMI2 output from the TV's remote, the sound was distorted from any volume level I put it at, be it at 10 or even 5.

I also noticed that the overall picture quality is greatly increased with the component cables, I do use an HDTV cable for the Panasonic home theater which works very well, this is under HDMI1.

I am convinced, the vibration issue many of us are experiencing is all based on the setup and is not an issue with the TV.

I hope this helps you guys and gals out!

if I understand you correctly, you're saying that the HDMI2 has sound issues. So, it still appears that there's a problem with the tv (one of the inputs is not working properly). I'd love to try out a Samsung, but it just seems that it has too many problems as far as built quality/reliability.
post #14 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariachi View Post

if I understand you correctly, you're saying that the HDMI2 has sound issues. So, it still appears that there's a problem with the tv (one of the inputs is not working properly). I'd love to try out a Samsung, but it just seems that it has too many problems as far as built quality/reliability.

I do not believe it is due to the HDMI2 input, it seems to be the receiver and the way it transmits the signal through the HDMI cable.

FYI, I tried switching to HDMI1 using the HDMI cable and the sound vibrations were there as well. Component cables work best.

As I mentioned earlier, My Panasonic home theater receiver is connected via HDMI cable to HDMI1 and there are no issues, I've also switched it to HDMI2 and the sound is the same, no issues.
post #15 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RYAXIN View Post

The sound vibration issue (emminating from the TV speakers) is NOT a TV defect.
...
I am convinced, the vibration issue many of us are experiencing is all based on the setup and is not an issue with the TV.
...

On BOTH of the TWO sets I've tried, I have absolutely no doubts that it is a manufacturing defect.

Maybe you've discovered another problem with your HDMI input. However, I suspect it's the same problem as mine, and you just happened to experience it using that audio source.

Recall earlier I wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by David 42 View Post

...
The vibration stops when I squeeze the bottom of the TV's cabinet underneath each speaker. Then I can crank the volume even louder and still not hear the vibration.

Even after I let go of the bottom of the TV, the vibration sometimes would not return immediately. My theory is that some part of the outer case or inner chassis shifts and then is able to start vibrating again. Thermal expansion/contraction may also be playing a part (in other words, the problem may decrease or increase with change in the TV's and room's temperature).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RYAXIN View Post

From the start I had component cables connected from my HD receiver to the Plasma. On the TV remote, I had selected (from the 'source' button on the top right) Component 1 Cable STB. With this setting, I am able to crank up the volume to 100 with no distortion or any type of vibration in any way shape or form.

As I wrote previously, a crucial factor is listening to an audio source that produces sounds of the correct (low) frequencies at sufficiently loud volume.

The majority of things I hear on "normal" TV/cable material do not. Very few male voices I've heard include the low frequencies that exhibit this problem.

Also, if your TV's speakers are simultaneously making higher-frequency sounds that are too loud, that may mask (i.e., prevent you from noticing) the vibration issue from lower frequency sounds.

Did you try using an audio tone generator program, generating strictly low frequencies as I described earlier? That is the definitive test.

If it's inconvenient for you to connect a PC or laptop to your HTDV, here's a site with WAV files that you can burn as tracks on an audio CD, to play in a CD or DVD player:
http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd Tracks 6-25 should cover the range of frequencies we're interested in.

Caution: Do not burn and play tracks 50 and above without reading the docs. Several are not intended to go through amps and speakers, and can damage audio equipment.
post #16 of 50
Well, I decided to swap-out for another PN50A450 and as I was sort of expecting, I am still getting the vibration sounds...again with low-freq (usually male voices) at vol > 30. This is all via HDMI, I have not tried the same source (e.g. cable box) with different audio outputs (like the RCA/component). I will give that a try, just cause I am curious. I usually run it through an A/V receiver, so it doesn't bother me overall, just can't believe a defect like this got through.
post #17 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by David 42 View Post

On BOTH of the TWO sets I've tried, I have absolutely no doubts that it is a manufacturing defect.

Maybe you've discovered another problem with your HDMI input. However, I suspect it's the same problem as mine, and you just happened to experience it using that audio source.

Recall earlier I wrote:

Even after I let go of the bottom of the TV, the vibration sometimes would not return immediately. My theory is that some part of the outer case or inner chassis shifts and then is able to start vibrating again. Thermal expansion/contraction may also be playing a part (in other words, the problem may decrease or increase with change in the TV's and room's temperature).


As I wrote previously, a crucial factor is listening to an audio source that produces sounds of the correct (low) frequencies at sufficiently loud volume.

The majority of things I hear on "normal" TV/cable material do not. Very few male voices I've heard include the low frequencies that exhibit this problem.

Also, if your TV's speakers are simultaneously making higher-frequency sounds that are too loud, that may mask (i.e., prevent you from noticing) the vibration issue from lower frequency sounds.

Did you try using an audio tone generator program, generating strictly low frequencies as I described earlier? That is the definitive test.

If it's inconvenient for you to connect a PC or laptop to your HTDV, here's a site with WAV files that you can burn as tracks on an audio CD, to play in a CD or DVD player:
http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd Tracks 6-25 should cover the range of frequencies we're interested in.

Caution: Do not burn and play tracks 50 and above without reading the docs. Several are not intended to go through amps and speakers, and can damage audio equipment.




So if you press or squeeze a particular section of the plasma, the vibration stops altogether? Regardless of the volume?
post #18 of 50
Just for fun, I did test a digital and analog audio output from the same source and got the same vibration.
post #19 of 50
I'm beginning to lean towards the frequency that the speakers can handle that may be the issue.

Yes, if the speaker hits a selected frequency a particular part of the set will vibrate. Hence why some users have claimed that when they press together or hold a specific part of the set (below) the vibration stops.

It may be part speaker frequency capability as well as internal chamber of plasma that causes the vibration.

It may also be that there is no issue with the speaker system. It can be that when the speaker hits a specific frequency it sends the sound wave to a near by part of the chassis that causes the vibration.

Whatever the cause, it is fixable and it is not a permanent defect. One user suggested that some sort of insulation (if I can recall) that a technician performed had to be installed on the inside of the set and that eliminated the problem. If I can find that thread again I will post it in here.

As I have mentioned in a prior post, utilizing the component wire connection with my home theater system, I do not have any type of vibration at all so I am sticking with that. I use my HDMI cable for my cable box receiver which works well.
post #20 of 50
RYAXIN, if you find that post, let me know...I am having a technician come out to look at it, so the more information I have, the better.

Best,
NitDawg
post #21 of 50
I just got my set yesterday, and same horrible distortion of sound even at levels of 20-30.
I called Samsung and they advised that they were aware of this issue and are sending a technician to my home to resolve it. I'm thinking it's probably going to be some sort of sound damping material they will put into the bezel as I am convinced the distortion is a result of sound vibrations from the TV's case/bezel.
I will update after the tech visit.
post #22 of 50
I'm on my second delivery from BESTBUY. When I called last week to exchange it, the sales rep. said the the vibration was definitely NOT normal...if this is an across-the-board defect, what is Samsung going to do? why don't they just do a voluntary recall??

has anyone had any trouble with the 1080p model of the same size? it seems like this defect is exclusive to the 720 model...

i mean, for $1000 bucks i think we deserve a little bit better here. from the looks of this forum, we definitely have more than enough leverage for a class-action suit if they choose to look the other way...
post #23 of 50
The tech on the phone said its an easy fix...he's waiting for the pieces to ship and then coming out to fix it. As long as it gets fixed I'll be a happy camper.
post #24 of 50
On my set, two different sound source options, each produce a different sound output. One is distorted, one is not.

I use the not one.

I have used the distorted setup and I do believe it is a defect but at least not a permanent one. It can be fixed by a technician by adding a sound dampening insulator within the frame.
post #25 of 50
Nitdawg, can you do me a favor and post an update after the technician comes out to fix your unit? it would be good to know if this is fixable, or whether i should just get a different model/brand. many thanks in advance!
post #26 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by gidster7 View Post

Nitdawg, can you do me a favor and post an update after the technician comes out to fix your unit? it would be good to know if this is fixable, or whether i should just get a different model/brand. many thanks in advance!

He is coming out Friday and it does appear just to be a structural defect...after talking to him at length about the problem over the phone he said it sounds as if something (likely in the bezel) resonates with certain frequencies, which could be as simple as something not being tightened appropriately or in need of an insulator (which he had to order and thus the delay in my repair).

I will update Friday evening.
post #27 of 50
great -- i'll look forward to the update...
post #28 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitdawg View Post

He is coming out Friday and it does appear just to be a structural defect...I will update Friday evening.

The tech left...a different guy than I talked to on the phone. I said they have problems like this on panels from multiple vendors. I think his job is to verify the problem and not a nuts-and-blots technician. He will report this to the techs, "back at the shop" and then they contact Samsung for the necessary repair steps. He did also mention that on some panels they install a rubber grommet in the speaker housing...I guess a little more waiting is in-store.

I will update as I find out more info...
post #29 of 50
Now the story picks up a bit. I get a message at work from my wife to call 1-800-SAMSUNG regarding the servicing. I was taken back a bit, since I expected to hear from the local repair guy about what they were going to do. So I called...after getting my service ticket pulled up, the SAMSUNG customer service asked me to hold so he could call the local repair guy. After about 2 minutes I was told that it was the entertainment center that is causing the noise and not the TV. I was stunned for a few seconds and asked him how they came to that conclusion, besides, that would be something we could have actually tested when the repair guy came out to my house.

This doesn't make much sense...I had an appointment initially setup for Nov 5 with the local guy...he called me that morning to reschedule since the parts they needed from Samsung were not in yet and that he would call me when they are in to set up a new date (I guess that was an all out lie). When he did show up on the 14th, there were no parts, he simply listened to the TV and told me a few possibilities (none of which included blaming the TV stand) and that he would get back to me...WTF.
post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitdawg View Post

Now the story picks up a bit. I get a message at work from my wife to call 1-800-SAMSUNG regarding the servicing. I was taken back a bit, since I expected to hear from the local repair guy about what they were going to do. So I called...after getting my service ticket pulled up, the SAMSUNG customer service asked me to hold so he could call the local repair guy. After about 2 minutes I was told that it was the entertainment center that is causing the noise and not the TV. I was stunned for a few seconds and asked him how they came to that conclusion, besides, that would be something we could have actually tested when the repair guy came out to my house.

This doesn't make much sense...I had an appointment initially setup for Nov 5 with the local guy...he called me that morning to reschedule since the parts they needed from Samsung were not in yet and that he would call me when they are in to set up a new date (I guess that was an all out lie). When he did show up on the 14th, there were no parts, he simply listened to the TV and told me a few possibilities (none of which included blaming the TV stand) and that he would get back to me...WTF.

I'm sorry but Samsung quality and customer service leaves a lot to be desired. Sure, their tvs have tons of useful picture settings and you can get a great picture...provided the set is free of any problems.
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