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Best Mitsubishi vs best Epson? Contrast? Blacks? Sharpness?

post #1 of 21
10/12/08 at 6:28am
Thread Starter 
Just looking forward to comparing the best Mits to the best Epson. I'm hoping we'll see projectors with really good contrast, black levels etc, and better colour uniformity and sharpness. I wonder if the Mitsubishi will better the Epson in sharpness again in this generation.
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post #2 of 21
10/12/08 at 5:30pm
ProjectorCentral has the first review up (I always take their numbers and impressions with a grain of salt though, based on past reviews) and the Mitsu appears to have good colors (Evan does not really publish solid info about colors, but my guess is other reviews will bear this out), and will probably not be as bright as the Epson if the past is anything to go by. The Epson reviews will probably come last out of the Mitsubishi, Panasonic and Epson trio.

Like you, I'm only interested in the higher end models from all 3 manufacturers. I'm also hoping to read something positive about anti-dust blob measures from at least one of these, as I refuse to buy another 3LCD until this has been properly addressed. I don't need a very bright projector, so I haven't ruled the Mitsubishi out.

With ANSI contrast in the 400+:1 range, and static contrasts that will probably be > 5500:1 range, it looks like 3LCD is no longer behind in the contrast race, and I hope this translates to more 'pop' in the picture.
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post #3 of 21
10/12/08 at 9:51pm
Someone else on this forum said PJ Central posted lower brightness numbers than he measured, which he did around 600 lumens in normal mode.
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post #4 of 21
10/12/08 at 9:58pm
I think it was cine4home measured 3 hc7000 putting out 500 lumens at d65
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post #5 of 21
10/12/08 at 9:59pm
I should be getting mines next week and I'll have it professionally calibrated the week after so I'll see if I can post lumen numbers, pending that he does take those measurements.
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post #6 of 21
10/13/08 at 7:04am
Thread Starter 
For starters, it would be nice to have a chart comparing the models from all the manufacturers, with video processors, anamorphic squeeze, contrast numbers etc etc. It seems to me that lcd technology has lept forward quite a bit these last two generations. After the D6 lcd panel, specs appear to have gone forward in leaps and bounds rather than creeping forward a few hundred here and there with contrast ratios etc. The three things that usually end up being major concerns for me are:

1) Colour uniformity
2) Sharpness
3) Dust blobs

Not really in any particular order, as they are all very important to me. Here's hoping the new units are good in those respects. Comparisons to the last generation would be very useful.
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post #7 of 21
10/13/08 at 7:12am
Can you guys explain what D65 means? I notice comparisons at this spot.
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post #8 of 21
10/13/08 at 8:06am
Kutlow, you can go to and read the AVS calibration forum for complete D65 display information and explaination.
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post #9 of 21
10/13/08 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

Can you guys explain what D65 means? I notice comparisons at this spot.


D65= 6500 kelvin (color temperature). Pure white/gray--not "cool", not "warm", but perfectly in the middle. Usually measured/calibrated with grayscale material.
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post #10 of 21
10/13/08 at 8:40am
Specifically 6500k does not have to be D65, but D65 is always 6500k. It is where x-.313 and y=.329 in adjustments.
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post #11 of 21
10/18/08 at 9:36am
The way I understand it, 6500K is a curve - the entire gray scale curve. D65 is a specific point on the curve. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #12 of 21
10/18/08 at 8:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethk View Post

The way I understand it, 6500K is a curve - the entire gray scale curve. D65 is a specific point on the curve. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Not the way I understand it. 6500K is a measurement of the temperature of the colour balance, or the 'white balance' of your display with reference to the sun. Lower looks warm, more red and/or orange and higher looks more blue. Exact numbers I'm not sure, but suffice to say that 6500K is generally understood as the standard for most displays.
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post #13 of 21
10/18/08 at 11:03pm
What about the on-topic discussion? Has anyone seen both best mitsu and best epson yet?
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post #14 of 21
10/20/08 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Just looking forward to comparing the best Mits to the best Epson. I'm hoping we'll see projectors with really good contrast, black levels etc, and better colour uniformity and sharpness. I wonder if the Mitsubishi will better the Epson in sharpness again in this generation.

If you are referring to the newest models, none are shipping. If you are looking for the current/last years, there are lots of threads on each.

I would suggest holding tight for a bit...those newer models will start shipping soon.
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post #15 of 21
10/20/08 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

Not the way I understand it. 6500K is a measurement of the temperature of the colour balance, or the 'white balance' of your display with reference to the sun. Lower looks warm, more red and/or orange and higher looks more blue. Exact numbers I'm not sure, but suffice to say that 6500K is generally understood as the standard for most displays.

I read up on it a bit more - D65 is a point, whereas 6500K is a locus of lines or curves. The D65 color, or point, lies on the 6500K locus. However what I said regarding the grayscale is incorrect - I thought the 6500K locus ran along the neutral black/white colors, whereas it runs from Magenta to Green, and intersects "White" at the point D65.
See:
http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00C0Bk
or
http://www.smartavtweaks.com/absolute.html
"..because 6500K does not describe a precise location in color space, (unlike D65) but in fact, a whole locus of lines that can have significant variation in the green magenta balance. "
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post #16 of 21
10/20/08 at 6:47pm
It gets confusing for us layman

Simply and as Jason stated "Specifically,
6500k does not have to be D65, but D65 is ALWAYS 6500k (6504k). D65 is x-.313 and y=.329". Yes I changed Jasons quote a bit.
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post #17 of 21
10/20/08 at 7:29pm
Thread Starter 
Right. Ok on the colour stuff. I am no expert on that.

I am looking forward to a shootout of sorts. On the one hand, these projectors seem to be getting a little closer to one another in performance the more advanced we get with the lcd front projector technology, with the advances in the past few gen being quite sgnificant. The ON/OFF native contrast ratio jumped from sub 2000 to in the last gen 3000+ and now we see 5000+ and now over 400:1 ANSI is quite amazing. It's the details like sharpness and colour uniformity that I like. I'm hoping the projector(s) with the better (lower) black levels and higher contrast ratio's are also good in sharpness and uniformity. I don't want to compromise too much of one quality in a trade-off for another.

Not to make another side topic, but isn't the current gen's jump in ANSI contrast paired with the higher ON/OFF and lower black levels something that the average viewer will really notice? I should see a big difference with this increase in the above performance specs, correct?
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post #18 of 21
10/20/08 at 8:06pm
I found the Cine4Home numbers on the Panny very interesting.

In a color-correct mode like Cinema 1@D65, he measured:
~3300:1 static on/off, and ~13,000:1 dynamic. That is to say a 4x contrast expansion using a DI.

In dynamic mode, he got ~5900:1 static on/off and ~60,000:1 dynamic. That's a > 10x contrast expansion. I wonder if this means that dynamic mode has a big effect on DI usage. I don't know how bad the colors are in dynamic mode, but I hope its a lot better than in the past, where the colors were almost cartoonish, with huge green push and bad skin tones - basically unusable for watching movies (imho).

Also since there's such a big difference in on/off between these modes, I wonder if there will be a similar difference in ANSI. Does ANSI drop to 1/2 in color-correct modes (probably not quite that much, but I wonder how much it drops)?

As a side note I expect the Epson 7500 to put out very similar numbers both in terms of brightness and contrast. The only real question is how does the DI and the various modes stack up.
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post #19 of 21
10/21/08 at 8:58am
Both will be shipping later in the fall, so I would suggest staying tuned.
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post #20 of 21
11/1/08 at 3:23pm
Thread Starter 
Also wondering how the ansi and ON/OFF will compare between the latest lcd projector generation and the JVC RS1 and RS2 etc.
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post #21 of 21
11/3/08 at 2:41pm
Thread Starter 
Any more reviews up or on the way?
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