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Official Panasonic DMP-BD35/55 Owners Thread - Page 390

post #11671 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post

This is only half the story.

Page 32 as you stated turns the 24p output on. If a Blu-Ray is natively recorded at 24P, and everything else is compatible, 24p will be automatically displayed.

However, if you are playing back a standard def DVD, you must also manually turn 24p on in the On-Screen menu (page 29). Not all DVDs will allow you to do this. There is a noticable difference in SD DVD playback with 24p on.

Right. My comments were about playing Blu-rays recorded at 24ps.

Let me try again:

1) I couldn't care less about enabling reverse (a.k.a. inverse) telecine for DVDs. It doesn't work very well, it artifacts all over the place. It's not worth the effort. So I never try to do it. I recommend others not to use it as well, but maybe they don't see the staggery motion.

2) I output 24fps Blu-rays at 24fps. In order to do that, 24fps has to be enabled as I described.

3) Enabling 24fps has no effect if the connected display won't accept a 24fps signal. My display is a 141FD, so it accepts 24fps. Others will not have displays that do that.
post #11672 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWG707 View Post

Could you explain in more detail exactly what the noticable differences in SD DVD playback with 24p on are compared to without it on. My display does not support 24p so I can not do a comparison. Thanks.

Short answer: DVDs with 24fps look like cr*p.
post #11673 of 14978
"Enabling 24fps has no effect if the connected display won't accept a 24fps signal."

You can't enable it.
post #11674 of 14978
Nordo,

Got it. Eliminated the Denon by using my Pioneer on regular DVD and the blu-ray hdmi in/cable. Worked fine. Don't know why it worked but I unplugged the BD55, let it sit for a moment, plugged it back in. I have not done that since updating firmware. Maybe needed a hard reset? It was very weird however. My denon acted like it was getting audio signal, adjusted dialog, etc. as if signal was coming through. But no sound.

Sounds great now......
post #11675 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Short answer: DVDs with 24fps look like cr*p.

I disagree. Perhaps your display just does not handle 24p well.
post #11676 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Nordo,

Got it. Eliminated the Denon by using my Pioneer on regular DVD and the blu-ray hdmi in/cable. Worked fine. Don't know why it worked but I unplugged the BD55, let it sit for a moment, plugged it back in. I have not done that since updating firmware. Maybe needed a hard reset? It was very weird however. My denon acted like it was getting audio signal, adjusted dialog, etc. as if signal was coming through. But no sound.

Sounds great now......

Well done.
Some time ago I was having problems getting the 35 to bitstream lossless codecs to my receiver (Onkyo 805).Power cycled and re-set both and the problem was fixed. Still don't know which machine was creating the problem.
post #11677 of 14978
Nordo,

Mine was bitstream as well. Internally decoding and sending out PCM worked. Still very weird.
post #11678 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Short answer: DVDs with 24fps look like cr*p.

I also disagree with this statement.

Of the few SD DVDs that did not look good at 24p I found that it was due to artifacts created by leaving "Cinemotion" set to "Auto" on my Sony KDL-40S4100 LCD tv as recommended by Sony tech support. After turning "Cinemotion" off, the artifacts disappeared and DVDs at 24p looks great.

You might look at your tv/projector to see if there is some setting enabled that conflicts with 24p DVD playback.
post #11679 of 14978
The only DVDs in my collection that don`t look good in 24...........don`t look good anyway. They are poor transfers and/or are a little soft. Last of the Mohicans comes to mind. The newer DVDs look ALMOST as good as Blu-ray. Of course I`m playing them on an Oppo 980H.
post #11680 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

I disagree. Perhaps your display just does not handle 24p well.

Haw haw haw. Seriously, I own a 141FD. True 24fps looks awesome on it. Reverse telecine looks okay right up until the player guesses incorrectly, at which point it jerks.

If you think DVDs can be converted from 60Hz to 24Hz with no issues, fine. But you might want to google for:

inverse telecine problems

It works when it works, but it doesn't always work. When it doesn't work, it's far worse than sticking with the DVD's native frame rate.

I can put it another way: If inverse telecine worked 100% of the time, why would anyone bother to record in 24fps? They could record at 60fps with 3:2, and expect the signal to be un-wrecked by players and/or scalers.

Now do a search for DVD players that perform reverse telecine. You know why you won't find *any* (okay, there's one--but it's the exception that proves the rule)? Because *it doesn't work very well*.

Don't you think if it worked great, DVD player vendors would have been falling all over one another to add it to their marketing brochures?

I did the research on this a couple months ago when I got curious about whether our DVD player could output 24fps. Answer: nope. So then I tried to find others that did, to maybe replace it, and none did.

Do you think there's some magic ingredient in a Blu-ray player that makes the problem of performing inverse telecine on *DVDs* easier than if a DVD player tried to do it?

Ask your calibrator what he or she thinks about converting DVDs to 24fps.
post #11681 of 14978
Nordo,

I'm still trying to make sense of my BD55 not bitstreaming regular or legacy Dolby Digital but bitstreaming hd audio codecs as well as PCM of all codecs was fine.

Given that these things are simply computers a hard reset with power plug out and back in is reasonable as a fix. Just wondering if after every firmware update that is a good strategy?

When this happened to you was it all codecs that woudn't bitstream?

Edit: My menus operate much quicker too since power plug out, back in, full power down. Makes one wonder. I'm almost afraid to try Twilight or Bolt... They worked fine for me before but I only listened to high def audio tracks. When I can get them again I may have to double check.
post #11682 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

...
If you think DVDs can be converted from 60Hz to 24Hz with no issues, fine. But you might want to google for:
inverse telecine problems

...

I can put it another way: If inverse telecine worked 100% of the time, why would anyone bother to record in 24fps? They could record at 60fps with 3:2, and expect the signal to be un-wrecked by players and/or scalers.

...

Do you think there's some magic ingredient in a Blu-ray player that makes the problem of performing inverse telecine on *DVDs* easier than if a DVD player tried to do it?

...

No doubt the process of converting 60Hz material to 24Hz is frought with errors. But, according to the Wikipedia article on telecine, NTSC DVDs are often soft telecined, where the material on the DVD is actually at 24fps, and it is the DVD player itself that converts this to 60fps just to send it to the television. You apparently allude to this in your comments above, where you indicate that people prefer to record at 24fps. So the magic ingredient of the blu-ray player is that it offers 24fps transmission of the data to the set, avoiding the introduction of extra frames and the need for the set, especially a 120Hz set, to convert the 60fps content back to 24fps using its film/cinema mode logic. The google search you suggested yielded, among others, a part of the Home Theater and High Fidelity discussion of their DVD benchmarking process where they suggest that most Hollywood major studio NTSC DVDs are recorded nicely using 24fps, primarily because it provides better compression. So there should be a lot of DVDs where 24fps to a 120Hz set should appear at least as good if not better than 60fps. This may especially be true on sets such as my Samsung LN46A650 that disable film mode processing when the source is progressive instead of interlaced.
post #11683 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Short answer: DVDs with 24fps look like cr*p.

I might have to agree with you. My display accepts 24FPS (Sanyo PLV Z2000).

I tried a few times setting the DVD to 24FPS, but it looked ugly (may not be cr*p but worse than 60Hz). After that Inever bother to turn that on again.

For Blu-ray however, it's a different story.
post #11684 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Haw haw haw.

If you think DVDs can be converted from 60Hz to 24Hz with no issues, fine. But you might want to google for:

Ask your calibrator what he or she thinks about converting DVDs to 24fps.

How did you come to the conclusion that DVD's are encoded at 60 Hz ? If film, it is normally encoded at 24 Hz (or 2 x 24 interlaced fields). If video, it is 30 Hz (or 2 x 30 interlaced fields). And if a DVD was encoded at the video frame rate, it may have been done so by using 3:2 pulldown on a film source. A dvd player performing reverse 3:2 pulldown still must find the original 24 frames. Our Panasonic BD players, when set to output 24p for a DVD, are doing nothing different but there is no need to go the extra step of building the frame rate back up to 60p.

For me, I prefer the least amount of video processing. The only case where our players would be performing additional processing (when set to output 24p) is when a DVD is using video material as its source.

And I did ask the calibrator... me.
post #11685 of 14978
There is an existing thread, quite a long one at that, all about 24fps. Maybe you gentlemen would consider moving the 24fps discussion to that thread?
post #11686 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

There is an existing thread, quite a long one at that, all about 24fps. Maybe you gentlemen would consider moving the 24fps discussion to that thread?

Thinking I would learn something new, I went looking for the thread you suggested. I have not quite been successful, although I did find a short thread where someone raised the question why he might or might not want to enable 24fps, and he was directed that the appropriate venue for his question was this, the DMP-BD35 thread.

Are you referring to the HDMI 1080p24 output and audio bitstreaming: Better in $2K player vs $500 player? thread? That thread seems to be discussing audio quality differences between players as much as video, although some interesting comments can be gleaned from it with enough effort.
post #11687 of 14978
Does anybody know why my BD35 will not zoom sd-dvd? I select 'submenu', then 'screen aspect', then 'zoom'. Nothing. The manual says it will zoom, so shouldn't I be able to zoom 2.35:1 movies to fill a 1.85:1 screen? Maybe I am still not doing something right?
post #11688 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDog View Post

So what was Disney's solution? Did they have to download some update to the BD Player memory to bypass the last issue or was it a server side issue and their servers were not responding correctly?

I think Disney's Blu Ray department needs to get a clue. I had issues with Wall E as well. Didn't have any issues with Bolt that I can recall but then again, I did download the latest firmware before I bought that movie.

It's not just Disney. It is the fact that BluRay came out too soon and wasn't a finished spec when it comes to compatibility. Hence the problems. Some movies play fine, some don't. Call Panasonic, Sony, Samsung..... you will probably get a this, "We are working on a future update to fix this problem". Or you'll get stuck talking to a CR, that has no answer, but will forward your complaint to the "engineering deparment". Then wait two monthes for a fix.

Remember VHS? Stick a tape in, it played. DVD players? Stick a disk in it played. Why can't they get it right with BD? IMO, BD could be doomed if they don't fix the problems. The average consumer will not put up with this and it will never be a standard format that works ALL the time. I'm beginning to wonder if there ever will be one. One suggestion, and it has been said here, abandon BD Live and put resources to fixing these problems.

Ok. I'm done with my rant. Sorry if I offended anyone.

Mike
post #11689 of 14978
Bill,

A search on 24fps gets me over 20 pages of hits.
post #11690 of 14978
All I know is that with a few exceptions, my DVDs look great upconverted to 1080p24. The newer DVDs that are "enhanced for widescreen tvs" look almost Blu-Ray in quality.

That's my story and I am sticking with it.
post #11691 of 14978
Weird observation tonight: I unplugged the HDMI cable going from my BD-35 to my Denon 3808ci receiver and noticed sparks from the connector metal shield when it touched the receiver.

I took out my multimeter and measured 35 Vac between the cable end (metal shield) and ground (power outlet ground or receiver case). All components connected to the same power bar.

Have any of you observed something similar with your BD-35's?

Richard
post #11692 of 14978
Would guess we do that sort of thing with the power off.
post #11693 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybradley View Post

I hope I'm not jinxing myself, but I haven't performed a FW update on my BD35. I bought it last November during the original sells. I have yet to have a problem on a BR and just watched Bedtime Stories yesterday. It did take a while to play after the previews, and I got the gumballs, but then it played fine, and looked great. Again, I probably just jinxed myself, but I said I wasn't going to update the FW until I had an issue.

Same thing here. Got my 35 in October. Have done no updates on firmware. All blurays have played just fine, including the recent Bolt, Wall-E that people are talking about now. I may never update it. Most folks probably don't even think about after buying their equipment. I guess we are both the lucky ones.
post #11694 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevenator View Post

Does anybody know why my BD35 will not zoom sd-dvd? I select 'submenu', then 'screen aspect', then 'zoom'. Nothing. The manual says it will zoom, so shouldn't I be able to zoom 2.35:1 movies to fill a 1.85:1 screen? Maybe I am still not doing something right?

Hi,

On page 20 of your manual, there is a section called "Screen Aspect".
It is very short, do read it, and you will know exactly what your BD35 is supposed to do. It is about "Side cut" and "Zoom". But on Standard DVD-V, "Side cut" does not have any effect.

And the Zoom function is clearly indicated that it is for the 4:3 image aspect ratio.

For more on the 4:3 aspect ratio, check at page 32 of your manual, under the section called "TV / Device Connection", first setting "TV Aspect".

Bob
post #11695 of 14978
I had issues with Bedtime Stories on Easter Sunday. It would go as far as the Gumball Loading Dots and then loop back to the previews. I had to eject it and re-load it to get it to work properly. Bolt, Ratatouille, and Marley & Me all played fine.
post #11696 of 14978
Tonight I received a response from Panasonic about the Twilight audio drop out issue. They basicly said they couldn't durlicate it. They did ask me to send a bunch of info from the disc and what my settings were in the menu of the BD-35 and what firmware version was in the player. They also said their will be a 1.8 firmware upgrade available in 4-5 working days.

Jeff
post #11697 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Nordo,

I'm still trying to make sense of my BD55 not bitstreaming regular or legacy Dolby Digital but bitstreaming hd audio codecs as well as PCM of all codecs was fine.

Given that these things are simply computers a hard reset with power plug out and back in is reasonable as a fix. Just wondering if after every firmware update that is a good strategy?

When this happened to you was it all codecs that woudn't bitstream?

Edit: My menus operate much quicker too since power plug out, back in, full power down. Makes one wonder. I'm almost afraid to try Twilight or Bolt... They worked fine for me before but I only listened to high def audio tracks. When I can get them again I may have to double check.

If I remember correctly, I had my SD DVDs (with Dolby D & DTS) playing using Dolby PLII Movie for my 7.1 system.
When I got my BD35 and set it up using bitstream, I tried everything (and every setting) when watching BD to try to get the correct lossless codec to be registered on the receiver. All I could get was Dolby PLII Movie. Once I did the re-set and powercycle (power plug pulled and and back in) on both, the problem was resolved.

I think you're right. You should think of your new piece of treasured equipment as one of the worst computers you've every owned.

Did you say that????
post #11698 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post

Would guess we do that sort of thing with the power off.

I'm assuming your post is in reference to my query about sparks on HDMI?

To clarify, the power was off on both units (Denon turned off with main power switch, not in standby).

RT
post #11699 of 14978
Good morning nordo.....

I'm thinking from now on after a firmware update my policy will be to unplug the unit and do a hard reset. Everything is clearly better. No lag in menu commands, all of the audio codecs are working, etc. May not be required of course but from now on it will by my standard procedure. Its not all that big a deal to do.
post #11700 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post

All I know is that with a few exceptions, my DVDs look great upconverted to 1080p24. The newer DVDs that are "enhanced for widescreen tvs" look almost Blu-Ray in quality.

That's my story and I am sticking with it.

I'll join you in that story and I'll stick with it.
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