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Official Panasonic DMP-BD35/55 Owners Thread - Page 496

post #14851 of 14978
I used to have a Mit WS65511 and I had to upgrade my TV for that very reason.
post #14852 of 14978
I know I can check myself, but do the current units have analog audio outputs? My preamp doesn't have HDMI. Thanks.
post #14853 of 14978
Analog RCA stereo outs, yes, plus composite 480i analog, SD video (a single yellow RCA)

What no longer exists on any mainstream 2011+ design machine is component video out (R,G, and B RCA jacks ) for HD analog connection (720p, 1080i/p). You must use HDMI for those resolutions now.
Edited by m. zillch - 3/4/13 at 6:11pm
post #14854 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

Analog RCA stereo outs, yes, plus composite 480i analog, SD video (a single yellow RCA)

What no longer exists on any mainstream 2011+ design machine is component video out (R,G, and B RCA jacks ) for HD analog connection (720p, 1080i/p). You must use HDMI for those resolutions now.

No onboard decoding of the lossless audio tracks with six channel analog audio outputs?

EDIT: Nevermind - the DMP-BDT500 still has 7.1/5.1+2 analog audio outputs. Thanks!

http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/DMP-BDT500?t=specs
post #14855 of 14978
With Panasonic, no, but other brands might

[incorrect, see next few posts]
Edited by m. zillch - 3/4/13 at 7:02pm
post #14856 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

With Panasonic, no, but other brands might

See my edit above - Panasonic does have a unit with 7.1 analog audio outputs.
post #14857 of 14978
Panasonic DMP-BDT500 I guess ?
post #14858 of 14978
I'm not a believer in lossless audio bluray movies having any real world advantage to human listeners, personally. If anyone has any evidence, NON_ANECDOTAL that is, please feel free to post it proving me wrong, however I will ignore any sighted comparisons (and/or ones without careful level matching by instrumentation), as being susceptible to expectation bias and not worthy of examination or comment..

Then again, if multi-jack is the only way to get surround sound to a particular preamp/receiver one already owns...
Edited by m. zillch - 3/4/13 at 7:00pm
post #14859 of 14978
The Oppos still have multichannel analog, too. But, it's getting rarer on both players and processors now that HDMI is so ubiquitous.

I use analog with an older BD55 and in spot check comparisons between lossless and the high bitrate lossy codecs on Blu-ray, I rarely hear a difference, although there's an occasional disc such as Black Hawk Down where it seems to matter. When I got the player, it only cost slightly more than a player without MCH analog. These days the premium for analog can be pretty hefty.
post #14860 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

The Oppos still have multichannel analog, too. But, it's getting rarer on both players and processors now that HDMI is so ubiquitous.

I use analog with an older BD55 and in spot check comparisons between lossless and the high bitrate lossy codecs on Blu-ray, I rarely hear a difference, although there's an occasional disc such as Black Hawk Down where it seems to matter. When I got the player, it only cost slightly more than a player without MCH analog. These days the premium for analog can be pretty hefty.

Well, it's either pay a few hundred for a pricey BD player when the 55 dies or pay several grand for a new preamp with HDMI. Not about to give up my Anthem AVM20 anytime soon if I can help it.
post #14861 of 14978
A few hundred for the BD player would seem to the way to go. Or, use the S/PDIF connection. The high bitrate lossy tracks on BD sound awfully good.
post #14862 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by HofstraJet View Post

Well, it's either pay a few hundred for a pricey BD player when the 55 dies or pay several grand for a new preamp with HDMI. Not about to give up my Anthem AVM20 anytime soon if I can help it.

Consider doing a bit of looking around for a low mileage, reasonably priced, nicely maintained used name brand BD player.

Thoughts:
I'm assuming you already know what Panasonic models to consider . . .
I'm excluding Oppo from my suggestions due to pricing . . .
I am not a Samsung fan for optical media players . . .
Sony BDP-S5000ES - probably offers you the very best in analog outputs from a BD player. No streaming or 3D & no built-in wi-fi. But they are pricey even used.
Sony BDP-S1000ES - probably not as good with analog audio as the 5000 or an Oppo - but excellent & surely at least equal to or better than your 55 (I have 2 of these). No streaming or 3D but has built-in wi-fi.
Sony BDP-S550 - the next choice down. No streaming or 3D or built-in wi-fi.
your Panasonic DMP-BD55 with a nice cleaning of the insides to ensure the laser is not covered in dust, etc.
post #14863 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

I'm not a believer in lossless audio bluray movies having any real world advantage to human listeners, personally. If anyone has any evidence, NON_ANECDOTAL that is, please feel free to post it proving me wrong, however I will ignore any sighted comparisons (and/or ones without careful level matching by instrumentation), as being susceptible to expectation bias and not worthy of examination or comment..
The answer to this arrogant statement is of course high bandwidth, lossless is better by definition. Not being able to tell the difference is a hearing or equipment issue.
post #14864 of 14978
^^An equally arrogant statement, it would seem. Did you meet the challenge of offering evidence of audible differences, not subject to expectation bias? Added data does not, by definition, translate to audible superiority. How did you determine the inability to tell the difference is caused by bad hearing or equipment rather than the lack of audible difference?
Edited by BIslander - 3/5/13 at 5:59am
post #14865 of 14978
^^^
Arrogant? Interesting rebuttal.
post #14866 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

^^An equally arrogant statement, it would seem. Did you meet the challenge of offering evidence of audible differences, not subject to expectation bias? Added data does not, by definition, translate to audible superiority.

Proof of "audible superiority" exists in many forms in many places in the body of research and literature for the many years lossless has now existed. Do the research if you can not hear it with the necessary playback equipment. The burden of proof now exists for those making counter claims not those who hear and use it.
post #14867 of 14978
Perhaps you can offer one or two of those proofs that you mention. I have never seen such evidence re: lossless and the high bitrate lossy codecs on Blu- ray. Such was the challenge made by m.zillch, one that you have not met. The burden is on you in this case. And since you specified that bad hearing or equipment is the other alternative, please include that evidence, too.
Edited by BIslander - 3/5/13 at 6:42am
post #14868 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Perhaps you can offer one or two of those proofs that you mention. I have never seen such evidence re: lossless and the high bitrate lossy codecs on Blu- ray. Such was the challenge made by m.zillch, one that you have not met. The burden is on you in this case. And since you specified that bad hearing or equipment is the other alternative, please include that evidence, too.

.A final reiteration - The evidence is now well documented over years and I am not about to do research for those with unfounded counter claims since I hear the difference quite clearly. Sorry you don't but not my problem.
post #14869 of 14978
A good place to leave it. Another one of those exchanges - all heat, no light.
post #14870 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

... since I hear the difference quite clearly...

So do I hear the difference between lossless and lossy. I remember the first movie I heard in an HD audio format. It was "End of Days" and it was on HD DVD and Dolby TrueHD. The difference between that and my DVD version was quite staggering. I also notice the difference between 720p and 1080p which a lot of people don't believe but I have a 92" screen.
post #14871 of 14978
This is not about DVD. It's about the higher bitrate lossy codecs on Blu-ray, the ones you hear when playing lossless track for output over S/PDIF.
post #14872 of 14978
I play the Dark Knight a few times a year because I really like the opening "bank scene". More than a few times I have turned around to my equipment rack because something is just not right. Then I remember this disc for some reason does not default to the lossless track. It make a big difference. wink.gif
post #14873 of 14978
Can't leave it alone, eh? The lossy default track on that disc may just be the standard DVD bitrate as opposed to the higher bitrate lossy version associated with the TrueHD encode. I notice the same thing when playing 300 on HD-DVD, which defaults to a DD 5.1 track. Of course, on HD-DVD, DD 5.1 is limited by the spec to 448kbps whereas the TrueHD track is transcoded on the fly to DD 5.1 at 640kbps for output over optical
post #14874 of 14978
I responded to this post which says nothing about "higher bitrate lossy version ", optical or whatever so this will be the end of you wasting my time trying to walk back your statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

I'm not a believer in lossless audio bluray movies having any real world advantage to human listeners, personally. If anyone has any evidence, NON_ANECDOTAL that is, please feel free to post it proving me wrong, however I will ignore any sighted comparisons (and/or ones without careful level matching by instrumentation), as being susceptible to expectation bias and not worthy of examination or comment..

Then again, if multi-jack is the only way to get surround sound to a particular preamp/receiver one already owns...
post #14875 of 14978
A little context always helps with understanding. m.zilch's post was in reply to the OP's concern that he would need a new player with lossless decoding and analog outs or a new prepro with HDMI. In context, m.zilch was saying no such purchase was necessary because the OP could get audio every bit as good with his current equipment. Now, m.zilch may also feel that DVD quality audio is no different that lossless. But, that's not relevant to whether the OP needs to buy new equipment beyond simply replacing his Blu-ray player.

Meanwhile, even before you weighed in, I was very careful to specify the difference between DVD bitrates and the higher bitrates associated with lossless codecs on Blu-ray. No walking back there at all. So, do you have anything substantive to add to the actual issue under consideration?

I would add for others reading this who may not be aware of how legacy outputs are handled with lossless tracks:
The DVD spec limits DD 5.1 to 448kbps and Dolby tracks are often less than that. The DVD DTS spec maxes out at 1536kbps, although most DVD releases are about half of that. When it comes to lossless tracks on Blu-ray, TrueHD encodes include a hidden DD 5.1 track that is used when equipment does not support lossless and DTS-HD Master Audio is built around a lossy DTS core. While not required, in practice, the embedded DD 5.1 track is encoded at 640kbps and the DTS core uses the maximum DVD rate of 1536kbps. . So, it is certainly possible to get better audio on Blu-ray than DVD without the ability to decode the lossless tracks.
Edited by BIslander - 3/5/13 at 11:59am
post #14876 of 14978
^BIslander got that right. Thanks.
post #14877 of 14978
Umm Guys?

I don't mean to be a "back-seat" moderator, but I thought this is a thread about a specific brand and model of Blu-Ray player, not about the pros and cons about lossless audio (even though it's been a good read). biggrin.gif

Like I said before, my Panasonic DMP-BD55 is experiencing some playability problems on some of my newer Blu-Ray discs, which used to play just fine earlier. I've already did the firmware update a while back before I started to have this problem.
Meanwhile, all my older discs plays just fine.

BTW, those problem disc play just fine on my older Sony Playstation3 (60gig launch version), so I don't think those discs are defective.



Danny
post #14878 of 14978
Let's see. You have current firmware. You've determined the discs are fine. You don't want to buy a new player until after you get a new TV with HDMI. And you have a PS3 that can play the problem discs and connect to your older TV. I suggest you use the PS3 for now. Is there a reason you don't want to use it? It's unlikely anyone is going to have another solution that will fix your aging player.
Edited by BIslander - 3/6/13 at 7:30am
post #14879 of 14978
As I apparently incited the lossless debate with my comment about current players with analog outs (sorry about that), I'll throw this idea out there for the OP: Have you considered the HD Fury which converts HDMI to component? I have been using the original HD Fury for years between my Lumagen and my 73" Mitsubishi RPTV and it has been rock solid. They have several newer flavors now. http://www.hdfury.com/
post #14880 of 14978
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Let's see. You have current firmware. You've determined the discs are fine. You don't want to buy a new player until after you get a new TV with HDMI. And you have a PS3 that can play the problem discs and connect to your older TV. I suggest you use the PS3 for now. Is there a reason you don't want to use it? It's unlikely anyone is going to have another solution that will fix your aging player.


The irony of this is, I bought this player to save the PS3 the wear and tear of constant Blu-Ray use.wink.gif But now, it's the other way around.

I was only curious if anyone else who use this player has encounter the same problem.



Danny
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