Official Panasonic DMP-BD35/55 Owners Thread - Page 312

Just hooked up a 6th and 7th speaker. Is there a need to do something to the player (35) to get 7.1 decryption off a 5.1 DVD... or is it strictly a function the receiver??

Thanks for the link and recommendations. But, I hope you realize that is not responsive to my post.

Specifically, you claimed that bitstreaming is better because receivers process PCM that they have decoded themselves differently than PCM decoded by players. That seems like conjecture to me and I asked for sourcing and further explanation. Did you provide any sourcing or explanation for that original claim, the one I was responding to?

Now, it looks like you have a new explanation, that PCM can be corrupted in transmission because it lacks error correction. If that happens, please tie it back to the differences you describe between a bitstreamed track and PCM sent from the player. It seems like data corruption would lead to inconsistent and choppy audio, not overall lesser quality. But, perhaps I'm not understanding this.

And as I pointed out, Roger Dressler from Dolby labs stated that the PS3 decodes TrueHD and sends out via PCM exactly as it should be done. So either the AVR is doing some post processing of some kind, somebody has something configured incorrectly, or they are experiencing placebo effect after they have level matched. I have heard numerous times that bitstreaming sounded better than internal decoding and I just have not found that to be true for me on my setup (Onkyo receiver with Polk, RBH, and eD speakers) or for my father-in-laws setup (he also has a BD35 and a higher end Yamaha receiver with 5.1 RBH speakers). We both have good hearing and my father-in-law used to own a media production company.

[quote=BIslander;15613363]Thanks for the link and recommendations. But, I hope you realize that is not responsive to my post.
QUOTE]

The link I posted offers some explanations why in theory, where the decoding is done could cause different results even though they shouldn't. Whether it is because of post decoding processing or something else is just reasonable guesses from various people.

Maybe the truth will come out later but what I know at this stage is there is a difference even though in theory, there shouldn't be. And I've been involved in electronics and computers long enough to know a lot of "shoulds" in the digital world don't pan out exactly the same.

While that sounds reasonable (and what I'm really doing is playing a little bit of devil's advocate) the same is true on the Panasonic BD55; the Panasonic applies processing to the 5.1 DTS lossy signal and sends out a 7.1 PCM signal.

Nevertheless, you do make a strong point in that DTS-HD MA 5.1 sources show up as PCM 5.1 and DTS-HD MA 7.1 sources show up as 7.1. The only reason I have even brought up this possibility is that several individuals seem to claim an audible SQ improvement going from the internal decoding of the PS3 to bistreaming to an AVR with the BD35/55 (incidentally I'm not one of them though I haven't done a lot of back and forth testing). I for one am still not convinced (despite information from Panasonic) that the BD35/55 reverts to internally decoding the lossy track instead of the lossless track when secondary audio is present; I've done some limited testing and I don't hear a difference but I don't have two identical discs with secondary audio to run one in my PS3 and one in my BD55 so my testing is far less than ideal (which is why I haven't spent much time on it). I do have the Matrix on both HDDVD and Blu-Ray and since we know that the HDDVD players internally decode the lossless track when secondary audio is present I may do a back-and-forth comparison though again this isn't the most scientific of approaches.

It is controlled by the reciever.

There are far too many reports on this to chalk it up to incorrect setup one way or another. I know my system is setup correctly. Placebo is possible but placebo happens when you "want" something to be better. But why would people psychologically want bitstream to be better than PCM? I know I don't as I don't see bitstreaming to be the more advance exotic stage in audio reproduction.

Over the last few days, I have listened to one song from Sweeny Todd, switching between bitstream and PCM no less than 20 times, and I have to say bitstream is better.

With a DVD, you would need to apply a DSP such as PLIIx in your receiver. The player only outputs 5.1 from DVDs.

With a 5.1 DTS track on BD, the player will output 7.1 on its own. In fact, you can't prevent that from happening. The player does some form of channel duplication to create the rears.

But, 5.1 Dolby and PCM tracks are output as 5.1 and need to be processed by your receiver to create rear channels.

I have been going crazy trying to get my Panasonic BD-35 player to work with my Infocus projector running through my Onkyo 606. With the 1.3a HDMI cable from the BD-35 to the Onkyo 606- then another HDMI to the Infocus SP5000 Projector. This leads to a U73 error on the blu-ray.

With same configuration- except changing the projector to HDTV- everything works fine. Also, If I just connect the BD-35 to the projector- connection works (of course no audio). I have the Onkyo 606 HDMI settings to "Auto" or "Through", but has not helped me avoid the error. Also tried changing Bd-35 HMDI output to various settings including 1080i, 720p- with no success. The "HDMI" light on the 606 display goes off/on as if it is searching, but not finding continued signal for several seconds before the Blu-ray displays U73. I also have tried turning all the components on in different order, but to no avail.

Any ideas! Thx.

As jcalabria suggested, but did not spell out, the BD55 does support analog 7.1 output, which you can run to your receiver, but the cabling is a little subtle. The connectors for the 5.1 channels are obvious, but the surround back speaker signals are found on the 2-ch stereo outlet. There's a picture on pg 12 of the manual. Of course, with analog outputs you lose some of the digital controls available for HDMI audio in a new fancy receiver, e.g., speaker equalization, but you are supposed to get 7.1 channels.

Really, now, is this necessary? The Panasonics are unique in that regard. It's right in the manual - DTS 5.1 sources on BD are output as 7.1. PS3s don't do that. So, it's a simple matter to test whether the PS3 is switching to a lossy track when dealing with secondary audio.


Have you considered the possibility that you don't hear a difference because lossy tracks encoded at maximum bit rates on BD actually sound as good as lossless?

If the DVD/BD only has a 5.1 track, you can use Dolby IIx (if available) on your AVR to get a generated 7.1 track. IIx is good for most material - from stereo to 6.1...

I played Bangkok Dangerous the other night. Bitstreaming DTS-HD to my Yamaha 6160, it only played as 5.1. (7.1 with PLIIx.) Changing the BD-35 to PCM, it played as 7.1. Not sure if it was the disc or the player. I sent the rental back already and wasn't able to look into it further. Very unusual as this was a 7.1 title. Might be the AVR and the New Line flag issue?

U73 is the common HDMI handshake error code, which you well know. I suggest you turn on the 606, then the Infocus projector, then wait several seconds for them to "boot up," then turn on the BD-35 last. It also occurs to me that I once had a U73 code displayed, so I shut everything down and made sure all my HDMI connections were properly/firmly/squarely seated in their slots, then powered up everything again, and I've never seen the U73 error since.

Try turning off HDMI Audio in Setup or try THIS.

The player can only add rear information if it is decoding. I think the OP will want to bitstream as his receiver can decode. In that case PLIIx is still the best option for turning 5.1 into 7.1.

What does OP stand for? I can't figure it out and it's driving me crazy... I'm guessing it refers to the person who asked the question but what does the acronym actually stand for?

Original poster

Original Poster

Ordre des Precheurs (Order of Preachers--Dominicans)

phew I feel much better - thx guys

Google knows all...

Tried your suggestions, but still w/o any luck. What to try next?

Tried that. Couldn't figure out how to get the audio to input from composite cables while video going through HDMI from bd-35 to onkyo 606- but adjusted the setup as suggested on the Blu-ray while it was connected to tv so I could see menu. Then switched back to projector. U73 all over again.

What to do next? Thx again for your help

BIslander, I know this whole thing on PCM vs Bitstream could go back and forth; if you would please provide your opinion. If I play a dvd with DD or DTS audio should it sound the same if I have it decoded in the PS3 as in my Onkyo 805. AND, with the audio content on the BD disks I will have the same sound from decoded DD-TrueHD or DTS-HD-MS to LPCM sent to the receiver as having my Onkyo do the decoding?

Thanks,

Joe

I played Bangkok Dangerous bitstreaming DTS-HD to my Onkyo 606 and it played in 7.1, just as it should. Could be your AVR.?

Can I connect this player via HDMI to a device that only has a 1080i capacity? Willi it still "upconvert" SD DVD's?

Make sure Viera Link is turned off on the BD-35 and that RIHD and Power Control is disabled on your Onkyo 606. you should not get the error any more
I have the same equipment as you do.

Mike

Joe - I can't respond from personal experience as I don't have a PS3 and I have an older AVR without HDMI. But, the PCM should be the same regardless of where a track is decoded. In some cases, receivers can't handle bitstream and PCM the same way and there could be differences resulting from the lack of post-decoding processing. But, if a receiver can process bitstream and PCM the same way, the final output should be the same.

There are a fair number of posts from people who say bitstreaming sounds better than PCM from a PS3. But, it's a hugely popular player and many more people say they don't hear any difference when the outputs are volume matched.

Dialog normalization in some (most?) TrueHD soundtracks might be the factor here. Another member said they found the center channel was louder when bistreaming versus PCM decoded in the player. That to me sounds like the receiver is doing something with the dialnorm flags (Dynamic Range Compression is on in the receiver but disabled in the player?).

Something to consider...

1080i? Yes. No problem.

Upconversion? Yes no problem.

I used mine (briefly) with an older Panny PDP that maxed at 1080i and it was just fine.

From the manual--

HDMI Resolution*

• Auto: Automatically selects the output resolution best suited to the
  connected television (1080p, 1080i, 720p or 480p).
  
• 480p
• 720p
• 1080i
• 1080p