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Brightness of plasma displays - Page 3

post #61 of 103
10/18/08 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

Knowing the benefits and drawbacks of dynamic brightness (CRT and PDP) versus Static brightness (LCD) I realize that there will could be two contenders in the future that will offer both dynamic and static.

1 - LED-LCD should be able to include a ABL system (I think some already do) as an option

2 - 10-lumen PDP should switch to an optional ABL system

This would give the best of both worlds and be very versatile display systems IMO.

Thanks xrox for your insight along with XB and sharpbandaid. This issue is all about the ABL circuit for me. When I went through warranty I could see that on the panasonics they reacted differently. When the ABL circuit kicked in drove me crazy.

Now was it a quality control issue or being sensitive to the changing of brightness? It wasn't about the whites not being white enough. But I saw different displays behave differently.

But this thread has all my answers answered. I don't have to complain about it no more because for years I've just wanted to know what was going on. But I see you've been talking about this for awhile I just didn't understand it till now. Big thanks to all.

I'll be looking at these displays in the future.
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post #62 of 103
10/18/08 at 9:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

I was watching "30 days of night" yesterday on my 151. This movie has a high amount of white scenes with snow. And I got to thinking about some of the opinions in this thread and I have to say that I have a very hard time understanding why anyone would want to go brighter than what I saw.
I dont see how anyone could call that the whites I saw "dull" or dirty".

In fact, I could change the modes/settings around and make the snow scenes "POP" more but I see no need to.

Maybe this is because I watch my set in a regular amount of ambient light as opposed to a super bright environment. If I had like 5 or six windows in my living room then maybe more brightness would be needed during the day.
But with just one window and one sliding glass door that I open up the blinds for alot, I have more brightness then I will ever need. But thats just me.


Yes, and for the typical consumer (who won't understand much of this thread like me, LOL), it really boils down to what you're comparing the whites to. For example: put a samsung plasma next to the series 6 and 7 LCDs, with out of the box dynamic settings and the backlights turned all the way up, and the difference in whites makes the plasmas look broken or something. And ironically, this is what the average consumer (lump me into that pile if you wish) will react to and even base a purchase decision on....because its exactly what the average consumer sees in CC/BB/etc.

In reality, brghtness is one very tiny element of overall PQ....but my point is that when ppl walk into stores and see 50 tvs on the wall, the brighter ones are just going to stand out (and be purchased). But is that TV even brighter than what they have at home? who knows? b/c the standard for comparison happens to be some of the best/brightest LCD's out on the market right now.

For me, the brightness is important....for example, I've read some threads on Sharp LCD 64U series calibration, and NONE of the calibration settings are ever bright enough for me....I always have to pump up the backlight or the brightness a few levels before it looks right to me. So for a consumer like me who just prefers a brighter picture than most, its a PRO in the lcd vs plasma debate.

And I actually ended up with the 52A630 after a month or so of research...it ended up being between that one and the panny plasma 50PZ85U (which is actually brighter than most plasmas out there right now). Deciding factor ended up being price b/c a coworkers' son is a manager at local CC, and got them to pricematch an online price I found for the 630 (usually not part of their policy..but up to manager discretion--will respect the sponsors here and not mention the online retailer, but it was below $1,500 before tax--I know...WOW). I think if prices for size/resolution were equal across the board, plasmas would be nearly obsolete by now....meaning the typical consumer only picks plasma over LCD in most cases because they can get a larger set for less money, or upgrade to 1080p, for the same price as the 720p LCD. This is my 2nd LCD, first time with 120Hz/automotion plus bullcrap so lets see how it works out. If the motion blur is anything like it is on my sharp 64U, its going right back to CC after work Monday. I plan to do some serious side by side comparisons during the giants/49ers game tomorrow afternoon, lol.....AND back to the brightness issue for a second, I expect the 630 to out "shine" my sharp pretty easily because the 64U's aren't among the brightest LCD's out there ...which almost begs the question of why go for a "brighter" set if the "dull" plasmas are probably no "duller" than my "dull" sharp 64U...LOL. But like I said, comparisons are all relative. For all I know, the samsungs that looked so dull in the store could actually be BRIGHTER than my sharp...i'lll never know b/c I never saw them side by side.
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post #63 of 103
10/19/08 at 2:55am
Seeing a Samsung LCD yesterday next to a pioneer 5020 at BB, I was still drawn more to the 5020 that even thier brightest Samsung and Sony LCD's.

Sure the LCD's looked a bit brighter in scenes of all white, But the majority of the time the screen does not go full bright.
And in all those instances when there was high contrast (on the dark and light side), or a dark scene, The plasma "popped" more to me than the LCD even if the all bright scenes were not as overblown.
I have a hard time understanding how the average consumer can overlook this.

To me, When I see those scenes on the LCD's when they are showing those super bright scenes, it just does not look right to me. ITs like I can see/feel the backlight coming thru the screen. Kinda like someone lighting a candle and putting a paper bag over it (i know that sounds wierd).
It just does not look right to me. I can spot immediatly that the brightness is not coming from the actual picture, but from a light source behind the picture.
When I see movies like 8-below or 30 days of night, It looks like there is a light bulb behind the snow. The snow looks like a light source rather than snow.

Maybe when PDP is able to go brighter I will be able experience that brightness "POP" without getting that unnatural backlight feel since with the PDP's the actual pixels themselves illuminate instead of standing in front of a backlight. I look forward to checking it out when they do.
But to be honest, I will still be content if Plasma doesn't get brighter.
But I know some others feel differently. So it will be nice to have that extra brightness to accomadate those who wish for higher luminance.
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post #64 of 103
10/19/08 at 5:07am
Plasmas are fine if you have at least some control over the lighting in the room where the TV is.
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post #65 of 103
10/19/08 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Seeing a Samsung LCD yesterday next to a pioneer 5020 at BB, I was still drawn more to the 5020 that even thier brightest Samsung and Sony LCD's.

Sure the LCD's looked a bit brighter in scenes of all white, But the majority of the time the screen does not go full bright.
And in all those instances when there was high contrast (on the dark and light side), or a dark scene, The plasma "popped" more to me than the LCD even if the all bright scenes were not as overblown.
I have a hard time understanding how the average consumer can overlook this.

To me, When I see those scenes on the LCD's when they are showing those super bright scenes, it just does not look right to me. ITs like I can see/feel the backlight coming thru the screen. Kinda like someone lighting a candle and putting a paper bag over it (i know that sounds wierd).
It just does not look right to me. I can spot immediatly that the brightness is not coming from the actual picture, but from a light source behind the picture.
When I see movies like 8-below or 30 days of night, It looks like there is a light bulb behind the snow. The snow looks like a light source rather than snow.

Maybe when PDP is able to go brighter I will be able experience that brightness "POP" without getting that unnatural backlight feel since with the PDP's the actual pixels themselves illuminate instead of standing in front of a backlight. I look forward to checking it out when they do.
But to be honest, I will still be content if Plasma doesn't get brighter.
But I know some others feel differently. So it will be nice to have that extra brightness to accomadate those who wish for higher luminance.

I think a lot of a person's opinion depends on what bothers them and what flaws become more obvious to their taste. At times it's fairly obvious to me that the ABL kicks in at times and quite honestly I feel that I have to focus more to see things a little clearly at times when similar colors blend together some. Those whites people see on most LCDs in stores in torch mode are obvious more white than a person is going to see in real life as it's artificial light. However, there's still brighter whites outside on a sunny day than what a Kuro can display (keep in mind you can probably do a little better with your Elite than I can with my 6020). To many here, it's not a big deal. It all just depends on what your preference is. LCD obviously has the horse power when it comes to brightness but they have their own set of issues as well.

Though (as always) I still desire more from my display, I've finally reached a point with my TVs (after about 5 years of upgrading) I'm finally somewhat content with a digital display .
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post #66 of 103
10/19/08 at 8:26am
It is hard to explain in words sometimes so I made a graphic to show why dynamic brightness and static brightness are both important.

Dynamic brightness (PDP, CRT)

Good - low visual fatigue, but with very high contrast low APL scenes
Bad - High APL can seem dim especially in high ambient light environments


Static brightness (LCD, Backlit displays)

Good - High brightness at all APL is great for brightness junkies and high ambient light environments
Bad - Any adjustment of the backlight drops brightness even in low APL scenes.


The following graphic I made shows these points (note I also added some blue to the blacks of the LCD as this is what I see)

Note : The leakage of blue light is because low wavelength light (400-500nm) is leaked through the LC much easier than long wavelength.
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post #67 of 103
10/19/08 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

It is hard to explain in words sometimes so I made a graphic to show why dynamic brightness and static brightness are both important.

Dynamic brightness (PDP, CRT)

Good - low visual fatigue, but with very high contrast low APL scenes
Bad - High APL can seem dim especially in high ambient light environments


Static brightness (LCD, Backlit displays)

Good - High brightness at all APL is great for brightness junkies and high ambient light environments
Bad - Any adjustment of the backlight drops brightness even in low APL scenes.


The following graphic I made shows these points (note I also added some blue to the blacks of the LCD as this is what I see)

Note : The leakage of blue light is because low wavelength light (400-500nm) is leaked through the LC much easier than long wavelength.


Cool,
Just to clarify for someone who might be passing thru this thread and misunderstand, The above picture is not saying that LCd is capable of "whiter whites". It is just talking about brightness/luminance correct?

I would hate for someone to see the grey depicted for PDP and think that the whites look grey.
I think they are confusing an accurate color of white with higher luminance.
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post #68 of 103
10/19/08 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

Note : The leakage of blue light is because low wavelength light (400-500nm) is leaked through the LC much easier than long wavelength.

Quote:


Blue wavelength leaks out more than other colors. Even if the LCD shutter against blue pixel is closed the leakage of blue light is easily seen. This gives rise to low contrast and degradation of color purity that reflects itself in reduced area of NTSC triangle. Fig. 4 illustrates this distinctly. Fig. 4 has a small triangular area for gray level of 32 and 64 portraying reduced color gamut at these gray levels in a dark environment. The dynamic contrast ratio is 498:1 which is half that of plasma display and nearly 80 times less than CRT.



By implementing this RGB color control system on a 32” AS-IPS LCD TV, A. Konno et.al enhanced the dynamic contrast ratio of the display under dark environment from 498:1 to 20,000:1, exceeding plasma display, and obtained a color gamut of 100% NTSC for a gray level of 32 and 120% NTSC for gray levels from 50 to 250.[1]

You might want to add led lcd to your picture. ABL circuit can be simulated by source or video processor.
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post #69 of 103
10/19/08 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

Note : The leakage of blue light is because low wavelength light (400-500nm) is leaked through the LC much easier than long wavelength.

That might explain the purple shift LCD folks talk about a lot on a black screen (ps3 ect), which I see too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Cool,
Just to clarify for someone who might be passing thru this thread and misunderstand, The above picture is not saying that LCd is capable of "whiter whites". It is just talking about brightness/luminance.

LCD does have whiter whites (too much some times). I don't think any one argues that. Brightness is what defines "white" - otherwise you just have semi-grey "white points".
I see "white" as a completely subjective thing, depending on how much brightness some one is willing to endure.
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post #70 of 103
10/19/08 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by borf View Post

LCD does have whiter whites (too much some times). I don't think any one argues that. Brightness is what defines "white" - otherwise you just have semi-grey "white points".
I see "white" as a completely subjective thing, depending on how much brightness some one is willing to endure.


Looking at both a top plasma and top LCD beside each other, The White color looks similar to me.

The LCD just seems to be backlit more.
Again, this is just what I have seen with the Lcd's and plasma's I have had in my home.

So are you telling me that if I take a white sheet of paper and shine a flashlight on the backside of it, It will then be a "whiter" piece of paper??
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post #71 of 103
10/19/08 at 10:14pm
That's how I understand it... the only distinction between black, grey and white is the degree of brightness.

Quote:
For example, the color white is a bright color, while the color grey is considered to be a less bright version of that same white. In other words, the chromaticity of white and grey are the same while their brightness differs.
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post #72 of 103
10/20/08 at 1:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by borf View Post

That's how I understand it... the only distinction between black, grey and white is the degree of brightness.

interesting.
I always thought White was a combination of all colors in the specturm while black is the lack of all colors in the spectrum. But I guess it works differently with TV's.
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post #73 of 103
10/20/08 at 5:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Looking at both a top plasma and top LCD beside each other, The White color looks similar to me.

The LCD just seems to be backlit more.
Again, this is just what I have seen with the Lcd's and plasma's I have had in my home.

So are you telling me that if I take a white sheet of paper and shine a flashlight on the backside of it, It will then be a "whiter" piece of paper??

chadmak09,

I understand what you are saying about the light shining through the back of the paper though. There's a threshold where there can be too much light on white levels where they start to glow(and this point may be variable as it may depend on how much ambient light is in the viewing area).

From the posts you've posted it seems that you overlook one key point we've been talking about. The ABL. If you pull up a screen with white text on a black background on a plasma, the white text will be whiter (or brighter) than it is on an all white screen. So having said that, you may be able to display white text on your screen that's as white as a white sheet of paper. However, if you put a full white screen up on a PDP you'll see a grayish tint to the white due to the ABL. It's very obvious to my eyes on my 6020 by pulling up Windows Explorer than the white background is not pure. Even on a mode like Standard or Game where colors have a blueish tint to them it's still obvious that the white screen has a grayish tint.
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post #74 of 103
10/20/08 at 6:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

chadmak09,

I understand what you are saying about the light shining through the back of the paper though. There's a threshold where there can be too much light on white levels where they start to glow(and this point may be variable as it may depend on how much ambient light is in the viewing area).

From the posts you've posted it seems that you overlook one key point we've been talking about. The ABL. If you pull up a screen with white text on a black background on a plasma, the white text will be whiter (or brighter) than it is on an all white screen. So having said that, you may be able to display white text on your screen that's as white as a white sheet of paper. However, if you put a full white screen up on a PDP you'll see a grayish tint to the white due to the ABL. It's very obvious to my eyes on my 6020 by pulling up Windows Explorer than the white background is not pure. Even on a mode like Standard or Game where colors have a blueish tint to them it's still obvious that the white screen has a grayish tint.


I am very aware of the ABL.
Don't get me wrong here, I am not denying that plasmas could be brighter or that LCD is not capable of being brighter than plasma today.
I am just trying to understand this "whiter whites" statements.
Because to me it does not seem like "whiter whites, just "Brighter whites"

So does the ABL only kick in when its showing white? If so then I did misunderstand.
I thought the ABL is to regulate the overall brightness of the display not to narrow it down to a certain color.

Let me ask this, When a good calibrator calibrates an LCD, does he/she Adjust the maximum light output higher than they would with a plasma to achieve the more accurate white?
Because if the extra brightness is capable of making the whites more white and accurate, they would need to correct?
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post #75 of 103
10/20/08 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

I am very aware of the ABL.
So does the ABL only kick in when its showing white? If so then I did misunderstand.
I thought the ABL is to regulate the overall brightness of the display not to narrow it down to a certain color.

I was watching a football game at BB yesterday (Pio 111). Roughly 2/3 of the field was in shadow, and when the camera shifted from the brightly lit area of the field to the shadowed area, it seemed to dim. Slowly the set adjusted to a brighter setting and the level became much better.

The same thing happened several times and I found it very irritating. Is this what the ABL is all about or is it just some other feature?

I have a backlight control on my LCD that behaves the same way and I shut it down on all the inputs less than a week after purchase. Just can't stand the level change, distracts from what you are watching.
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post #76 of 103
10/20/08 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Let me ask this, When a good calibrator calibrates an LCD, does he/she Adjust the maximum light output higher than they would with a plasma to achieve the more accurate white?

If you think about it the answer should be NO, but in some of my recent arguments about the brightness levels that comes with having your set calibrated, someone who understands this better than I said that there IS a difference in the calibrated lumen output between a PDP, LCD and CRT. That is how I understood the post.
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post #77 of 103
10/20/08 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

Slowly the set adjusted to a brighter setting and the level became much better.

The same thing happened several times and I found it very irritating. Is this what the ABL is all about or is it just some other feature?

Just can't stand the level change, distracts from what you are watching.

Well if Pioneer's ABL slowly changes the brightness than its alot better than the others do it.

Took 3 years for me to understand all this. And its why I wouldn't consider a plasma. Has nothing to do with white levels, its all about the brightness changing.

I did buy plasma first because like others I believe it has better PQ. But at a cost and thats the ABL.
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post #78 of 103
10/20/08 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

So does the ABL only kick in when its showing white? If so then I did misunderstand.
I thought the ABL is to regulate the overall brightness of the display not to narrow it down to a certain color.

No, the ABL is a power limiter, regardless of color. You understand just fine

But since an all red/green/blue screen is only 1/3 the subpixels it should look even brighter than an all white screen which is all the subpixels.
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post #79 of 103
10/20/08 at 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

I was watching a football game at BB yesterday (Pio 111). Roughly 2/3 of the field was in shadow, and when the camera shifted from the brightly lit area of the field to the shadowed area, it seemed to dim. Slowly the set adjusted to a brighter setting and the level became much better.

The same thing happened several times and I found it very irritating. Is this what the ABL is all about or is it just some other feature?

I have a backlight control on my LCD that behaves the same way and I shut it down on all the inputs less than a week after purchase. Just can't stand the level change, distracts from what you are watching.

The ABL operates per frame. What you were probably seeing was either the camera doing this or your pupils adjusting
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post #80 of 103
10/20/08 at 7:02am
Here is an example of the inner workings of the ABL (this examples sets the limit at 20%APL)

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post #81 of 103
10/20/08 at 7:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

The ABL operates per frame. What you were probably seeing was either the camera doing this or your pupils adjusting

OK.

So my understanding of this is that what I seen could not be the ABL.

This was something set related, not just my bad peepers. There was a 151 next to it and it did not have the same issue. I am not saying that the level was bad on either set, just that the brightness increase on the 111 was distracting. Is this something like on my LCD that is meant to be an Auto Adjust?
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post #82 of 103
10/20/08 at 7:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Seeing a Samsung LCD yesterday next to a pioneer 5020 at BB, I was still drawn more to the 5020 that even thier brightest Samsung and Sony LCD's.

Sure the LCD's looked a bit brighter in scenes of all white, But the majority of the time the screen does not go full bright.
And in all those instances when there was high contrast (on the dark and light side), or a dark scene, The plasma "popped" more to me than the LCD even if the all bright scenes were not as overblown.
I have a hard time understanding how the average consumer can overlook this.

To me, When I see those scenes on the LCD's when they are showing those super bright scenes, it just does not look right to me. ITs like I can see/feel the backlight coming thru the screen. Kinda like someone lighting a candle and putting a paper bag over it (i know that sounds wierd).
It just does not look right to me. I can spot immediatly that the brightness is not coming from the actual picture, but from a light source behind the picture.

Well hey, this is exactly why there are still two competing technologies out there. Maybe I'm the victim of LCD marketing ploys, and in-store side-by-side selling techniques, and I'll gladly admit to that. Or perhaps I'm just a rare breed that really loves a well-lit screen--because I've already owned an LCD that believe it or not wasn't bright enough for me.

Again, all preference. For example, my laptop screen is always set to the highest brightness possible. When I'm on battery mode, and I have to adjust the brightness to conserve power, it strains my eyes.

To me plasmas look like a computer screen with one of those privacy films dimming the picture. LCDs looks "normal."

And FWIW, its not just whites...whites are where the dimness is most noticeable. Its any bright scene....to use an analogy alot of us can relate to, how about a football game? Again, to me, on a plasma, it looks like every game is played inside the metrodome, while on an LCD, you can get a feel for the natural, beautiful day wherever the game is being played.

Also important to note, if you're seeing the 5020 next to sammy/sony LCDs, you're probably in the "cave" of the magnolia home theater section of BestBuy...hardly MY normal viewing environment. I certainly agree that a darker environment levels the playing field as far as plasmas' lack of brightness...ie the difference is less noticeable or even non-existent when there are fewer exterior light sources. Unfortunately, I watch alot of TV with the lights on, and/or near windows, and while I'm obviously at work 5 of the 7 days a weeks (making the windows irrelevant), I do enjoy my weekend sports, particularly this time of year, and neither my living room nor my bedroom where my LCD's are, are anything near the setting of the Magnolia Home Theater section in BB.
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post #83 of 103
10/20/08 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

OK.

So my understanding of this is that what I seen could not be the ABL.

This was something set related, not just my bad peepers. There was a 151 next to it and it did not have the same issue. I am not saying that the level was bad on either set, just that the brightness increase on the 111 was distracting. Is this something like on my LCD that is meant to be an Auto Adjust?

I would agree with that.
I have never actually seen the ABL make the switch.

I am sure if it were instant or noticable there would be a massive amounts of threads about it in the plasma forum. lol.

My guess is that it makes the changes very slowly so that your eyes will not detect the change. kinda like how optimum mode on the 9G kuros makes its picture setting adjustments while watching depending on content color and contrast. changing suddenly would be too annoying to deal with.

Either that or it just flat out prohibits the display from ever displaying the overbrightened scene in the first place, hense there is no sudden switch from bright to less bright for you to detect.

maybe XRoX can ellaborate.
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post #84 of 103
10/20/08 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Either that or it just flat out prohibits the display from ever displaying the overbrightened scene in the first place, hense there is no sudden switch from bright to less bright for you to detect.

maybe XRoX can ellaborate.

The change is instant. You probably don't notice it because, like you say, a bright scene is never allowed to be bright in the first place. The ABL circuit processes the signal data for each frame before it is sent to the row and column drivers.

If you want to notice it you can use your PC and mouse and drag/scale a white square on a black background from small to full screen.
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post #85 of 103
10/20/08 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

I am very aware of the ABL.
Don't get me wrong here, I am not denying that plasmas could be brighter or that LCD is not capable of being brighter than plasma today.
I am just trying to understand this "whiter whites" statements.
Because to me it does not seem like "whiter whites, just "Brighter whites"...

Those two terms can make things confusing because on one hand they mean the same thing but on another they have different meanings. The brighter the whites are the "whiter" they will look (since we are talking about a light source and not something like a sheet of paper). If whites aren't bright enough they will have a grayish tint to them if they are pure.

I used to use the phrase "whiter whites" as well until D-Nice had suggested otherwise. However I'm pretty sure that when most on this board say whiter whites that they are referring to white levels not being bright enough in most cases. My 6010 and 6020 to my eyes have pure whites however the Panasonic plasma I had before the 6010 had a yellowish tint to the whites OOTB.
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post #86 of 103
10/20/08 at 10:10am
I've never noticed the ABL kick in, but I've seen plenty of scene where it looks like brightness has been held back. I had never realized this was due to the ABL either until I found xrox's post earlier this year. At time it can be pretty obvious (at least to my eyes) depending on the source content. Outdoor scenes can look like a cloudy day rather than a sunny day for instance.
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post #87 of 103
10/21/08 at 4:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I've never noticed the ABL kick in, but I've seen plenty of scene where it looks like brightness has been held back. I had never realized this was due to the ABL either until I found xrox's post earlier this year. At time it can be pretty obvious (at least to my eyes) depending on the source content. Outdoor scenes can look like a cloudy day rather than a sunny day for instance.

There has been plenty of posts in the plasma forum with "brightness changes and its annoying"? But I've never read where Pioneer owners complain about it.

I could reproduce it on 3 showroom displays where my plasma went through warranty at a service center.

You could see the brightness changing on sky scenes and bright backgrounds.
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post #88 of 103
10/21/08 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

There has been plenty of posts in the plasma forum with "brightness changes and its annoying"? But I've never read where Pioneer owners complain about it.

I could reproduce it on 3 showroom displays where my plasma went through warranty at a service center.

You could see the brightness changing on sky scenes and bright backgrounds.

I was just referring to more brightness on a recorded sunny day would look more realistic if it were brighter. I've never noticed the pictures brightness fluctuate at all. What I have noticed is that on bright scenes the picture could definitely be brighter for my tastes.
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post #89 of 103
10/21/08 at 6:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I was just referring to more brightness on a recorded sunny day would look more realistic if it were brighter. I've never noticed the pictures brightness fluctuate at all. What I have noticed is that on bright scenes the picture could definitely be brighter for my tastes.

I don't think that we are talking about ABL as you guys here have described it.

What I seen was a scene that was shifiting from a light, bright area to a darker shadowed area. The set seemed slow to react and gradually got brighter over approx 5 seconds. This to me smacks of some auto adjusting feature that many manufactures put in their sets so they can say they are Energy Star compliant. My set has this, and I found it so distracting that it got turned off within 3 days.

When the scene on my set would go from dark to light or back, the set brightness would be slow to react and the first few seconds of the scene would be either blinding or to dark to see.

If ABL is judging the brightness on a frame by frame basis, then this is much faster than what I have seen. Also it would be difficult to "see" ABL in action, but much easier to see the results if you knew it was there in the first place.

I agree with several posters here that I like the bright whites. For the longest time while I know that PDP has better black detail, the sometimes dull whites turned me off. I hope that changes with the new NEO panels, but for me that is all talk that has not been proven yet.
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post #90 of 103
10/21/08 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

I was watching a football game at BB yesterday (Pio 111). Roughly 2/3 of the field was in shadow, and when the camera shifted from the brightly lit area of the field to the shadowed area, it seemed to dim. Slowly the set adjusted to a brighter setting and the level became much better.

The same thing happened several times and I found it very irritating. Is this what the ABL is all about or is it just some other feature?

I have a backlight control on my LCD that behaves the same way and I shut it down on all the inputs less than a week after purchase. Just can't stand the level change, distracts from what you are watching.


I think what you may have seen was the external color sensor at work, which is a piece of a crap
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