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"YOUR" subwoofer picture thread - Page 69

post #2041 of 2536
Here are my custom Sealed HP Rythmik 15" twins.



post #2042 of 2536
Super nice, TurboSwede smile.gif
Did you do the cabinets yourself?

I have an FV15HP now. Had a single F15 before it drowned.
post #2043 of 2536
Those are gorgeous turbosweede...again congrats.
post #2044 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboswede95 View Post

Here are my custom Sealed HP Rythmik 15" twins.

That whole setup is simply gorgeous.

You might want to consider some type of riser/isolator for the subs though, so they aren't in direct contact with the wood floor.
post #2045 of 2536
Thanks guys. Yes I did build the subwoofers and the entertainment center cabinet as well. The subs are sitting on 3/8" rubber feet. Not sure if that's sufficient but I haven't noticed any problems.
post #2046 of 2536
Long as they're off the floor, I think they're fine. 3/8" or 3", does it really matter? Isolated from the floor as far as direct cabinet contact and vibration. The entertainment center is nicer than the sub cabs.....well done smile.gif
Must have been a winter project.
post #2047 of 2536
air space is not even comparable to direct contact. Acoustic decoupling is used by the military. It isn't the 3/8" of airspace you need to worry about; the question is: Are 3/8" of rubber feet to decouple the sub from the floor enough?
post #2048 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

air space is not even comparable to direct contact. Acoustic decoupling is used by the military. It isn't the 3/8" of airspace you need to worry about; the question is: Are 3/8" of rubber feet to decouple the sub from the floor enough?

Hopefully they're substantial feet. After experimenting with/without a Gramma on a few different subs now I'm convinced of the benefit. For me the Gramma was a worthwhile purchase.
post #2049 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

Long as they're off the floor, I think they're fine. 3/8" or 3", does it really matter?
It doesn't, as vibration of the floor via the mechanical coupling of a well constructed sub to the floor is a myth. If the floor does vibrate it's resonating in response to the acoustic output of the sub, which isolation has no effect upon. Where isolation can have some benefit is in preventing transmission of floor vibrations back to the sub, potentially creating a mechanical feedback loop that can cause midbass and lower midrange response issues. Where it can't have any benefit is in reducing sound transmission through the floor. You can confirm that by measuring the response in the room below the floor with and without isolation, and measuring the floor flex with a dial indicator placed below the floor with and without isolation. That's what I did.
post #2050 of 2536
I recently built a Tuba HT (awesome sub) and experienced a great deal of room interaction as a result. Vibrations-a-plenty. Whether it be floor interaction with the Tuba or the Tuba to the floor i am not certain (I am a bit of a noob). I then placed a few 2x4's under the Tuba and it seemed to decrease substantially.

Given this positive outcome, I built a riser with a bit of rubber and wood then placed it under the sub and found, at least to my ear, the vibrations no longer existed. I might suggest this lends a bit of favor to the riser theory
post #2051 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Hopefully they're substantial feet. After experimenting with/without a Gramma on a few different subs now I'm convinced of the benefit. For me the Gramma was a worthwhile purchase.

Ok, so I may have to try a Great Gramma under my FV-15HP. My open room is about 7000 CF with all ceramic tile flooring. I had carpet and padding in the room 3.5 months ago, clearly now notice a lack of acoustic dampening in room, an echo from even my voice or the television.
Just what kind of acoustic improvements could I expect from use of the Gramma?

Or what other improvements could I make to help the new room acoustical behavior? Bass traps or something? a big rug?
No doubt about the 400 SF of carpeting in the LR did quite a bit of sound dampening before.
Edited by polizzio - 12/2/12 at 2:34am
post #2052 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG INJUN CHIEF View Post

I recently built a Tuba HT (awesome sub) and experienced a great deal of room interaction as a result. Vibrations-a-plenty. Whether it be floor interaction with the Tuba or the Tuba to the floor i am not certain (I am a bit of a noob). I then placed a few 2x4's under the Tuba and it seemed to decrease substantially.
Given this positive outcome, I built a riser with a bit of rubber and wood then placed it under the sub and found, at least to my ear, the vibrations no longer existed. I might suggest this lends a bit of favor to the riser theory
My testing was done with a THT in a carpeted room and I found no difference either in room or in the room below between just the carpet and with spikes, rubber feet and four inches of foam. If you had your THT, or any sub, on a bare floor I'd expect you'd have some issues, but none that require more than a bit of carpet or rubber feet to fix.
post #2053 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG INJUN CHIEF View Post

Given this positive outcome, I built a riser with a bit of rubber and wood then placed it under the sub and found, at least to my ear, the vibrations no longer existed. I might suggest this lends a bit of favor to the riser theory

There's no question the Gramma made a difference for me.

Because of the sub reviews I do there's always a bunch of different models laying around for me to experiment with. I've tried the Gramma with acoustic suspension, bass reflex, large, small, front-firing, down-firing, expensive, inexpensive, you name it. With the exception of some of the inexpensive subs -- because they provide little in the way of depth or output -- the Gramma has made a noticeable improvement. My shades and windows no longer rattle, the closet door in the hallway is now silent and the bass just seems to have a bit more definition (not sure what to attribute that last part to).

While the Gramma is beneficial I'm not so sure it can be called a value. It's essentially a few strips of foam under a plank with carpet on it. I think Auralex charges too much for what you get, but that's the only downside I've found.
post #2054 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

Ok, so I may have to try a Great Gramma under my FV-15HP. My open room is about 7000 CF with all ceramic tile flooring. I had carpet and padding in the room 3.5 months ago, clearly now notice a lack of acoustic dampening in room, an echo from even my voice or the television.

Just what kind of acoustic improvements could I expect from use of the Gramma?

Or what other improvements could I make to help the new room acoustical behavior? Bass traps or something? a big rug?
No doubt about the 400 SF of carpeting in the LR did quite a bit of sound dampening before.

A large rug and/or bass traps will probably help, given the type of flooring you have, but I suspect your FV15HP is simply overwhelmed by that much space. A single 15" sub doesn't really stand a chance to pressurize 7000 ft^3 I'm afraid.

As far as the Gramma is concerned... are you experiencing any resonance? If so, the Gramma will probably eliminate it. It may help improve sound quality as well, because tile is not your friend in that regard, but with a room the size of yours it's difficult to really know.
post #2055 of 2536
Thanks for the response Jim. Yes, it's a big open room. 10' ceilings, with large arched openings to the adjoining kitchen, dining room, and foyer. I measured all of them and calculated the total cubic volume at 7200 ft3 (not taking into account the volume reduction of my personal items or furniture in the rooms). I would not know what room pressurization is.......I get good bass and a few things rattle in and around the room, but the bass reproduction doesn't like slap me in the face. It is what it is, and I'm happy with it overall musically.
post #2056 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

I get good bass and a few things rattle in and around the room, but the bass reproduction doesn't like slap me in the face.

Yup, that's because the room is too large for the sub. You'd need at least two of them to get slapped in the face.

If you have a few things that are rattling you might want to try a Gramma, which would more then likely make that disappear. You might be surprised how nice things sound when the room itself is silent.
post #2057 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Yup, that's because the room is too large for the sub. You'd need at least two of them to get slapped in the face.

If you have a few things that are rattling you might want to try a Gramma, which would more then likely make that disappear. You might be surprised how nice things sound when the room itself is silent.

But the simple fact is for any genre of music I listen to, I can produce more bass than needed, overpower the music with ample bass, not balanced. The only time I would like to experience "slap in the face" bass is a movie or blu-ray, HT performance. And those kind of performances leave my ears ringing after, more damage to my already damaged 54 year old ears. So what I'm saying is while pressurizing a room and experiencing "slap your face" bass reproduction might be real cool, long term you are definitely damaging your hearing, and one day you may just regret that. Its called Tinnitus, and severe cases or damage can result in ringing in the ears all the time. To each his own but I'm not sure I want to go there...I value both my eyesight and hearing, and try to protect both from further damage at this point in my life. Any sound reproduction in your HT over 95db will cause hearing loss, just depends on the sound levels and the duration. Not to mention what some adults subject their children to, unknowingly. If your ears are ringing after a performance, you're probably damaging your hearing long term.

Ok, I'm done preaching (to myself)......and this kind of discussion isn't too popular here anyways. Thanks for the reminder about the common sense approach to sound reproduction. I was briefly thinking about purchasing a second sub.
post #2058 of 2536
While the Gramma is beneficial I'm not so sure it can be called a value. It's essentially a few strips of foam under a plank with carpet on it.


Agreed. A sub riser is one of the cheapest and easiest DIY projects around. I have built several for myself and friends.
post #2059 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

The only time I would like to experience "slap in the face" bass is a movie or blu-ray, HT performance. And those kind of performances leave my ears ringing after, more damage to my already damaged 54 year old ears. So what I'm saying is while pressurizing a room and experiencing "slap your face" bass reproduction might be real cool, long term you are definitely damaging your hearing, and one day you may just regret that. Its called Tinnitus, and severe cases or damage can result in ringing in the ears all the time. To each his own but I'm not sure I want to go there...I value both my eyesight and hearing, and try to protect both from further damage at this point in my life. Any sound reproduction in your HT over 95db will cause hearing loss, just depends on the sound levels and the duration.

I wasn't advocating that anyone listen at insane levels - I was just replying to his post. Bass that "slaps you in the face" doesn't necessarily mean volume, it could just as easily be depth. Of course, depending upon your definition, it could also mean both. I never watch anything that loud myself.

Tinnitus is something I'm extremely familiar with unfortunately; I've had it for many years. Mine was the byproduct of seeing a few hundred concerts, shows and bar bands throughout my life; I've always been addicted to live music, but didn't start wearing attenuating plugs until just a few years ago. I have the ringing all the time.
post #2060 of 2536
I have it also Jim, hazards of being a Firefighter for 29 years and before required hearing protection while riding on the Fire apparatus. The live concerts also helped with the tinnitus. biggrin.gif
post #2061 of 2536
I have a mild case, a low ringing in the ears, and measurable hearing loss. High frequencies are pretty much gone for me. The results of my younger days, many live concerts close to the speakers, firearms, motorcycles, hot rods, working in an oil refinery for 29 years. Not to mention when I was a 20 YO, I had a set of Peavey SP-1s in my little half a double house LR, driven by a Peavey CS-800 amp, and we used to see the clipping lights fairly frequently when we were partying it up. The neighbors just loved me! The challenge back then was to stop the acoustic feedback into my turntable with a pile of pillows (before cassettes, way before cds)
The SP-1s were bad to the bone...a 18" woofer in a "W" cab. Not to mention the horns. Two 18" woofers in about a 10x14' room was really something back then. Since those days, I've owned several notable home setups.

I once went to a Queensryche concert at the UNO Assembly Center (a college basketball arena) in New Orleans, circa early 1990s. The lead singer boasted on stage they were using 400,000 watts of power! We were seated way way up and it still hit the threshold of pain occasionally. I had brought earplugs and was very happy I did. The loudest freakin show I've ever attended by far.

I posted the above reminding myself of the voice of reason, and hopefully that some of the younger guys here will think about their actions, and their hearing down the line when they're 55. Hearing is still one sense doctors cannot repair still. Once its damaged, its a done deal pretty much. And constant low ringing in the ears SUCKS. It doesn't take clipping lights or things rattling off the walls or shelves to really enjoy a performance.
I'm done...off topic here anyways.
post #2062 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

I have a mild case, a low ringing in the ears, and measurable hearing loss. High frequencies are pretty much gone for me. The results of my younger days, many live concerts close to the speakers, firearms, motorcycles, hot rods, working in an oil refinery for 29 years. Not to mention when I was a 20 YO, I had a set of Peavey SP-1s in my little half a double house LR, driven by a Peavey CS-800 amp, and we used to see the clipping lights fairly frequently when we were partying it up. The neighbors just loved me! The challenge back then was to stop the acoustic feedback into my turntable with a pile of pillows (before cassettes, way before cds)
The SP-1s were bad to the bone...a 18" woofer in a "W" cab. Not to mention the horns. Two 18" woofers in about a 10x14' room was really something back then. Since those days, I've owned several notable home setups.
I once went to a Queensryche concert at the UNO Assembly Center (a college basketball arena) in New Orleans, circa early 1990s. The lead singer boasted on stage they were using 400,000 watts of power! We were seated way way up and it still hit the threshold of pain occasionally. I had brought earplugs and was very happy I did. The loudest freakin show I've ever attended by far.
I posted the above reminding myself of the voice of reason, and hopefully that some of the younger guys here will think about their actions, and their hearing down the line when they're 55. Hearing is still one sense doctors cannot repair still. Once its damaged, its a done deal pretty much. And constant low ringing in the ears SUCKS. It doesn't take clipping lights or things rattling off the walls or shelves to really enjoy a performance.
I'm done...off topic here anyways.

You do realize watching a movie at reference is nothing like concerts.
post #2063 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

You do realize watching a movie at reference is nothing like concerts.

Yes I do but I would ask, what is the average decibel level at your ears, when you watch a movie at reference level? What are the peak db levels of exposure?
Just for the sake of discussion and for my personal education, not argumentatively.
post #2064 of 2536
85 dBs, about as loud as my spoken voice. Peaks ae 105 dBs max for speakers and 120 dBs for the subs. I am 41 and I can hear to 20khz(down 6 dBs). Peaks are seconds worth of sound. Rock concerts hurt my ears.
post #2065 of 2536
You speak very loudly.
post #2066 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

85 dBs, about as loud as my spoken voice. Peaks ae 105 dBs max for speakers and 120 dBs for the subs. I am 41 and I can hear to 20khz(down 6 dBs). Peaks are seconds worth of sound. Rock concerts hurt my ears.

85dbs?really...i don't think i would like to have a conversation with you...just sayin...no offense...
post #2067 of 2536
try putting a spl meter between two people and set it to fast and max and let me know before you judge. My kids sometimes are louder than any movie at reference but I am not worried of going deaf. What most people who have lost their hearing always talk about are very loud work environments and sustained abuse when we were younger. Compared to that movies are nothing. I am a doctor and speak to hundreds every week and none of them ask me to speak lower. Actually many medicare patients ask me to speak louder. It is easy to type back and forth saying this and that but until you come over and talk to me and then watch a movie at reference in my room one will not understand. Everytime a member comes over they look at me and always say the same thing, Now I understand. I have never, ever, had anyone tell me I speak too loud. Yelling is a different story but everyone can yell. Again, take out a spl meter and set it to max and fast and just measure around you.
post #2068 of 2536
When I watch a movie at -10 with my wife, at peak, I basically have to yell at her, right next to me, to be heard. A quick Google indicated that a typical spoken voice is around 65-70 dB.
post #2069 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

85 dBs, about as loud as my spoken voice. Peaks ae 105 dBs max for speakers and 120 dBs for the subs. I am 41 and I can hear to 20khz(down 6 dBs). Peaks are seconds worth of sound. Rock concerts hurt my ears.

Just recognize that even brief peaks of over 115db can and will damage your hearing long term. If your ears ever ring after watching a movie or demo then damage is being done, albeit long term, chronic. See, my concern lies with enthusiasts exposing their family members or friends to damaging levels, especially younger adults or children. The younger one is, the more sensitive their ears are.

A rifle or gunshot is but maybe a half second blip. But enough of them collectively will clearly damage your hearing. So even brief, transient peaks can do damage long term.
And I'm not trying to be the sound level police here......we're all adults here who make their own choices. I just want people to make educated, responsible choices, and know the long term consequences.
And once your hearing is damaged, its a done deal. Just ask someone who suffers from tinnitus. I made some really poor choices in my younger days relating to my hearing. Now I wear ear plugs to mow the yard, or when using a circular saw, definitely shooting any firearm, and sometimes even extended vacuuming with my shop vac.

PS..... I do have and use a quality sound meter periodically in my listening room.
post #2070 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by polizzio View Post

Just recognize that even brief peaks of over 115db can and will damage your hearing long term. If your ears ever ring after watching a movie or demo then damage is being done, albeit long term, chronic. See, my concern lies with enthusiasts exposing their family members or friends to damaging levels, especially younger adults or children. The younger one is, the more sensitive their ears are.
A rifle or gunshot is but maybe a half second blip. But enough of them collectively will clearly damage your hearing. So even brief, transient peaks can do damage long term.
And I'm not trying to be the sound level police here......we're all adults here who make their own choices. I just want people to make educated, responsible choices, and know the long term consequences.
And once your hearing is damaged, its a done deal. Just ask someone who suffers from tinnitus. I made some really poor choices in my younger days relating to my hearing. Now I wear ear plugs to mow the yard, or when using a circular saw, definitely shooting any firearm, and sometimes even extended vacuuming with my shop vac.
PS..... I do have and use a quality sound meter periodically in my listening room.

Shotguns and firearms are much louder than a cinema. The only time I reach peaks of 115-120dBs are from the subs only and all the guidelines are for A-weighting which are higher in frequency. If you watch reference level movies you should hardly ever get peaks over 105 dBs from just your speaker(the range most sensitive in our hearing). The subs if calibrated flat will has never reached over 120 dBs with the loudest and baddest movies on the 5 star list. These peaks are low bass and not within the range that is commonly damaged.
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