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"YOUR" subwoofer picture thread - Page 82

post #2431 of 2536
that's what you'd want...(so long as you didn't exceed the capability of the front placed sub)

If you gain match (meaning both subs are producing the same volume) the one behind you would be distractingly louder as it is closer.

When you level match the subs, the gains may not be in the same place, but you'll have an impossible time telling a sub is behind you. I witnessed this first hand in Luke Kamp's theater. He had one HSU VTF-15 immediately behind the seats, and one in the front corner. Both were playing, level matched, and I was sure I was going to be able to locate the sub immediately behind his seat when I first walked in. I could not. It was an excellent bass demo.

Yes you sacrifice a bit of max output, but the overall effect is nice. If you don't have independent sub outs (you do I understand) --- or at least a way to manually set delays - mini dsp, or DCX2496 etc -- then you would have time delay or phase issues and it likely wouldn't work well.
post #2432 of 2536
^^ Awesome- good to know. Thanks.
post #2433 of 2536
My share... smile.gif
JL Audio Fathom F212 and SVS SB12nsd

post #2434 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys View Post

How would I best calibrate them (same exact subs) so that they work equally to produce same spl then?
It's not about producing the same SPL, it's about getting the smoothest response. You need measuring gear, like REW. Playing the subs only you'd watch the effect on the response curve by varying the level of the rear sub. When it's as flat as can be had at the LP that's the correct balance. Then you'd use the sub level in the AVR to balance the overall sub to mains volume.
post #2435 of 2536
post #2436 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

It's not about producing the same SPL, it's about getting the smoothest response. You need measuring gear, like REW. Playing the subs only you'd watch the effect on the response curve by varying the level of the rear sub. When it's as flat as can be had at the LP that's the correct balance. Then you'd use the sub level in the AVR to balance the overall sub to mains volume.
Make sense. Thanks.
post #2437 of 2536
my garage sub. This thing is a monster.


post #2438 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcamaro70 View Post

my garage sub. This thing is a monster.



What is it?


MK....I knew that was coming! I have been following your sub build thread. Fantastic job!
post #2439 of 2536
Thanks, still dialing it in but the initial report is holy eek.gif
post #2440 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

What is it?
if I have to guest, it is Klipsch SW115?
post #2441 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Thanks, still dialing it in but the initial report is holy eek.gif

I saw your initial thoughts and that is awesome! I wish I had the space to do a false wall. I want to be able to hide everything. Can't wait to see your measurements after it is fully calibrated and tuned.

Quote:
if I have to guest, it is Klipsch SW115?


Really??!! That is a Klipsch?? I would have never guessed that.
post #2442 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoingOK View Post


I painted the MDF "box" openings (TV and center channel) a color two shades darker than the surrounding walls. The stone edges stop flush with the MDF.

You can PM me if you need anymore info or pictures....Thanks in advance.

Maybe this will help.


Looks great! PM sent, so I don't clutter this thread up.
post #2443 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

that's what you'd want...(so long as you didn't exceed the capability of the front placed sub)

If you gain match (meaning both subs are producing the same volume) the one behind you would be distractingly louder as it is closer.

When you level match the subs, the gains may not be in the same place, but you'll have an impossible time telling a sub is behind you. I witnessed this first hand in Luke Kamp's theater. He had one HSU VTF-15 immediately behind the seats, and one in the front corner. Both were playing, level matched, and I was sure I was going to be able to locate the sub immediately behind his seat when I first walked in. I could not. It was an excellent bass demo.

Yes you sacrifice a bit of max output, but the overall effect is nice. If you don't have independent sub outs (you do I understand) --- or at least a way to manually set delays - mini dsp, or DCX2496 etc -- then you would have time delay or phase issues and it likely wouldn't work well.
Thanks Archaea. Everywhere I read, for dual subs, the best spots for them in most case is one upfront and one in the back. You have your dual upfront beside your center, are those the best spots for YOUR room? Have you tried to have one in the back which you seem to have room for? Thanks.
post #2444 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post


Exactly what I want to do with my setup..............that IB sub looks like an absolute beast!.
post #2445 of 2536
Yes, Klipsch SW-115
post #2446 of 2536
My new PB13-Ultras ... (replaced dual VTF3-HO + 1 VTF3-MK4) in my movie room:
















post #2447 of 2536
What ever happened to Velodyne? I can remember circa 10 years ago back when I was selling consumer electronics when we got in our first SLP 8 (or SLP 800) and set it up on the floor next to a 12" PSB sub. That tiny little SLP8/800 was a monster. None of us had ever seen/heard anythign like it. Had like a 1200w amp. I think it was about the same time the cheaper velodyne models started getting sold at future shop/best buy.

I'd love to get my hands on one of those tiny little SLP8's. SO much punch in such a little package.
Anyone have this sub or know what I'm talking about?
post #2448 of 2536
Does anyone have a picture of the Rythmik FV15HP with the grill on. If not, how do you describe it. Is it completely see through or would it be almost opaque with low lighting conditions?
post #2449 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

that's what you'd want...(so long as you didn't exceed the capability of the front placed sub)

If you gain match (meaning both subs are producing the same volume) the one behind you would be distractingly louder as it is closer.

When you level match the subs, the gains may not be in the same place, but you'll have an impossible time telling a sub is behind you. I witnessed this first hand in Luke Kamp's theater. He had one HSU VTF-15 immediately behind the seats, and one in the front corner. Both were playing, level matched, and I was sure I was going to be able to locate the sub immediately behind his seat when I first walked in. I could not. It was an excellent bass demo.

Yes you sacrifice a bit of max output, but the overall effect is nice. If you don't have independent sub outs (you do I understand) --- or at least a way to manually set delays - mini dsp, or DCX2496 etc -- then you would have time delay or phase issues and it likely wouldn't work well.


whooops....I guess I was mistaken. Luke sent me this PM message: It appears he always gain matched his subs not level matched. From memory I was thinking level matched at the MLP because I don't remember hearing the rear sub playing louder than the front sub at all.

I saw you posted about my setup in the subwoofer picture thread. My subs have always been gain matched and rear sub is a few dB louder in the main listening position. I can feel it coming from the side at times but it is surprising it doesn't stick out more, I could put a LPF on the rear one but I am already shy on the 60-80hz bass.


I personally haven't witnessed too many people put their subs directly behind the listening position - so I don't have much actual real world experience to draw on from that I suppose. My logic would be that if they were gain matched you'd hear the rear sub too loud - so you would need to level match - but perhaps that's not the case. I'll let those who have experimented more with this chime in.

I've never tried the caps behind my seating position cowboys! I like the air movement too much from up front when the action on screen shows and explosion - I like to feel the air movement that coincides.
post #2450 of 2536
^^Thanks Archaea.
post #2451 of 2536
Build 1:
JL audio 12 W3V2/Hypex DS4/DEQ 1124



Build 2 The Best of Both World,s:
2x JL audio 13 W3V3 /2x Hypex DS4 /DEQ 1124..
1x bandpass:

1x closed next to the bandpass:

Music:

Movie:
post #2452 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie_18 View Post

My share... smile.gif
JL Audio Fathom F212 and SVS SB12nsd

Very nice sub :-)
post #2453 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by morca View Post

Music:

Movie:
Hi Morca,

Re: Music/Movie, two questions.

1) Why would movies need any more sub gain than music?

2) Ignoring gain, let's look at the curve shapes. It may be that the movie curve, with the rising low end, would be better for a "house curve" when playing substantially below "full tilt," thus better preserving the very bottom octave. Do you use both curves?

I'd use the movie curve all the time, except perhaps when playing movies really loud, then the music curve would be better.

Thoughts?
post #2454 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Hi Morca,

Re: Music/Movie, two questions.

1) Why would movies need any more sub gain than music?

2) Ignoring gain, let's look at the curve shapes. It may be that the movie curve, with the rising low end, would be better for a "house curve" when playing substantially below "full tilt," thus better preserving the very bottom octave. Do you use both curves?

I'd use the movie curve all the time, except perhaps when playing movies really loud, then the music curve would be better.

Thoughts?
Hello

1) i like the clean sound of music,if i use movie for music there is to much bass for say a contrabass and it does not sound real .

2) i did not raise the low end,the output 40-70 hz i putt the level down using the 1124.

Movie always sounds good,even at high volume,the music is pure to get a cleaner sound whit more details.
post #2455 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by morca View Post

Hello

1) i like the clean sound of music,if i use movie for music there is to much bass for say a contrabass and it does not sound real .

2) i did not raise the low end,the output 40-70 hz i putt the level down using the 1124.

Movie always sounds good,even at high volume,the music is pure to get a cleaner sound with more details.
Thanks for the replies. I hope you don't mind me asking you about this. It helps me understand. I can see how the movie curve could be too extreme for music listening, as it has quite a lot of bass rise (~12 dB) at 20 Hz. And if you reduce the subwoofer movie curve's level several dB to make the contrabass music sound better, it may leave a hole in the 60-80 Hz region.

It just strikes me that when a system is tuned for good music bass quality, it usually sounds too bass heavy for movies. Or vice versa, a well tuned movie system sounds weak for bass with music. Generally a 6 dB difference in subwoofer between the two cases (music needing 6 dB more). It is not a rule, just some casual observation from visiting a few good home theaters.

Your system, being the emphatic opposite of that, got me interested in understanding what is happening. Is your system using bass management for all the speakers? If so, what crossover settings are used?

Cheers, and HNY!
post #2456 of 2536
I dont mind you asking.
Indeed the curve using a boost/housecurve i see often used for HT use.
Sometime,s music,when i play rap or r&b the movie curve is on.


Music curve is only for instrumental music/pop music.
post #2457 of 2536
SB13-Ultra w/ a real Woofer in front, she still isn't happy eek.gif, my cat on the other hand absolutely loves it rolleyes.gif
**

Next to Pio FS51 by Andrew Jones
*

SB13-U next to a Bic F12 - the only similarity here is size / footprint
**
post #2458 of 2536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

whooops....I guess I was mistaken. Luke sent me this PM message: It appears he always gain matched his subs not level matched. From memory I was thinking level matched at the MLP because I don't remember hearing the rear sub playing louder than the front sub at all.

I saw you posted about my setup in the subwoofer picture thread. My subs have always been gain matched and rear sub is a few dB louder in the main listening position. I can feel it coming from the side at times but it is surprising it doesn't stick out more, I could put a LPF on the rear one but I am already shy on the 60-80hz bass.


I personally haven't witnessed too many people put their subs directly behind the listening position - so I don't have much actual real world experience to draw on from that I suppose. My logic would be that if they were gain matched you'd hear the rear sub too loud - so you would need to level match - but perhaps that's not the case. I'll let those who have experimented more with this chime in.

I've never tried the caps behind my seating position cowboys! I like the air movement too much from up front when the action on screen shows and explosion - I like to feel the air movement that coincides.

I run a pb13-ultra right behind the lp. And then two pb12 +s up front in the corners. Having a sub right behind your lp gives you a ton of head room. I don't think i could ever go back to a set up without one back there.

post #2459 of 2536
I had never considered multiple subs till I started reading on this forum. So much great information here. I fear for my wallet....

post #2460 of 2536
My dual Klipsch RW-12D

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