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B&K Reference 70 Owners Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 1400
Thread Starter 
When you go into DVD-A mode, is that only 5.1 even if you have a speaker setup of 7.1?
post #32 of 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post

Been working all week and no time to investigate some remaining issues...

1. On DVDA, using an HDMI cable carrying Dolby TrueHD from a Toshiba XA2 HDDVD, the sides and rears are way too high (my guess to 10-15 db too high) Also, on network TV OTA for Survivor in HD, same thing, in DVDA rears and sids way too high. Test tones are all calibrated at 75.. I've checked these multiple times. Haven't had time to checkout Dolby Digital Plus or DTS-HD, DTS-HD Master Audio or HR, PCM..but my guess is we will see the same results


2. When the on screen menus come up, you get a noticeable jitter on the video side. (1080p 60 hz output, either 1080p 24 or 1080i input, doesn't matter)

Hi Michael,
I'm having a customer send in his Oppo DVD player into B&K because of a compatibility issue with SACD (no SACD Multi channel; only stereo). That is also using the DVDA section. I will also have them look into any possible hot output level issues while it is out there.

One of the nice things with working with a receptive USA company is they will look into any compatibility issues such as these. While it is a pain to send in the player, they will put it on the bench and figure what is going on.

They will have a solution and a firmware patch.
post #33 of 1400
Thread Starter 
Did some more research. Have a hot output on any source when using DVDA. does not matter if its the Sony PS3 or the Toshiba HDDVD or the 611 Dish PVR.. has got to be the B&K itself doing something in the DVD-A mode.
post #34 of 1400
I've noticed the "hot" surround channel levels as well, playing back Bluray discs from my Panasonic DMP-BD10AK. I wasn't sure if this was normal or not, because before I got the B&K, I was using the analog outputs from the Panasonic to my Rotel pre/pro. Obviously, using the analog outputs, the Panasonic set-up menu dictates channel levels, distances, speaker size, etc. I was under the impression that when you output the soundtrack using MPCM, the levels would be output as recorded, with no processing. This would then require the B&K processor to add the required delays, bass re-direct, etc. Perhaps they are not doing it, so the channels are playing back at full, un-adjusted volume?

I'm the guy sending my Oppo player into B&K to have them look at the multi-channel DVD-A and SACD playback. I'll include some description of the "hot" surround channels using the DVDA sound mode to see if they can look at that as well.

I'll let you all know what I find out.
post #35 of 1400
Thread Starter 
Spoke to Technical Support, what may be happening is that I need to have all the levels of the amplifiers set to the same output and it may be bipassing the Sound Levels set inside the B&K. To check this, would need an HD DVD or a Blue Ray disk that outputs a MPCM test signal. Any ideas where to get such a disk?
post #36 of 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post

Spoke to Technical Support, what may be happening is that I need to have all the levels of the amplifiers set to the same output and it may be bipassing the Sound Levels set inside the B&K. To check this, would need an HD DVD or a Blue Ray disk that outputs a MPCM test signal. Any ideas where to get such a disk?

OmniKurt Taught me how to get my PS3 to output multi channel SACD. It was counter intuitive. I'll PM you once I try it. I asked Omnikurt issue in his note as a potential firmware problem.
post #37 of 1400
Thread Starter 
I have no idea what's going on here. PrePro says PCM 7.1 and DVD Audio, but I have no side or rear channel information. Watching Dish Network, Tru TV 204.. does that mean that only stereo is being broadcast? If so, why is it showing 7.1 PCM on the front of the B&K?
post #38 of 1400
Thread Starter 
So are you saying the HDMI is much better than the Optical or vice versa?

I went thru last night and recalibrated all my speaker levels and adjusted the gains on the amps to get them close to zero (so that the preamp processor is not doing much to change the db's per speaker). Puit in the Hulk on my Toshiba HDDVD. Change to DVD-A with a HDMI connection to B&K. Made sure the source was set to 5.1 Dolby Digital Plus..same result.... side surrounds way too high.

Also, here is another error: Put the unit in DVD-A. Used the Audio Preference button on the remote. After starting at 0 (Dolby) and scrolling thru each mode until I got to 9 (Record) and then hit the button to go to the next preference (which starts at 0 Dolby again), it starts looping (keeps flashing 0 Dolby repeatedly and won't stop.... flashes every 2 seconds and cuts off the sound, then back on, then cuts off in a loop. Then no matter what preference I use (1-9) it loops again. Using the remote and hitting the Off button does not work. When it comes back on, its still looping. Only way to change this is to switch Inputs to a different source.

Are we having fun yet?
post #39 of 1400
Just got word from my dealer re: the 24Hz issue.

Apparently B&K knows about it. They currently have it setup to only output to 60Hz. He specifically said, no passthrough.

He went on to say that they are trying to work out a bypass for a future fw update.

I was also made aware of a new fw release two weeks ago (v1.04) but he didn't know what it fixed.

Looks like I'll be testing-out the unit's ability to update fw over the internet. I just hope it's as easy as my XA2 and A35.

ck
post #40 of 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigslue View Post

I was just curious to hear what speakers and amps everybody is using with there Raf70?

Speakers
PSB Platinum T6, C2, S2 and also have M2's for the back when I get around to it. Need to get a 7 ch. or 2ch. amp.

Subwoofer
Velodyne HGS18

Amp
Mcintosh MC206

Speakers (Miller & Kreisel): S-150 (LCR); S-250 MKII Tripole (surrounds); MX5000 MKII (sub)

Amp: Sherbourne 5/5210

ck
post #41 of 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigslue View Post

I was just curious to hear what speakers and amps everybody is using with there Raf70?

Speakers
PSB Platinum T6, C2, S2 and also have M2's for the back when I get around to it. Need to get a 7 ch. or 2ch. amp.

Subwoofer
Velodyne HGS18

Amp
Mcintosh MC206

Speakers: B&W CDM9NT, CDMCNT, Leisure Monitors (surrounds)
Sub: Velodyne
Amp: Classe CA-5100
post #42 of 1400
So far the most noticeable difference between fw 1.02 and 1.04 is that the startup time seems to have decreased drastically!

Can someone that still has v1.02 time power on to sleep and sleep to full on?

Unfortunately the update doesn't solve the problem of whacked colors when I turn on my flat panel before turning on the B&K. Can't remember if I also have the problem with my pj.


ck
post #43 of 1400
Here is the link for the ref 70 manual

http://www.bkcomp.com/fileadmin/cont..._UM_102808.pdf
post #44 of 1400
I am considering the Ref 70, Marantz and Integra for my new pre-pro. So I have a few questions...

The manual makes no mention of DSD over HDMI.

Does the Ref 70 accept DSD over HDMI from SACD or must the player convert to PCM first ?
post #45 of 1400
Could I ask a favor of the Ref70 owners out there.

Could you test the differences in SQ with 2 channel audio between the toslink/coaxial connection and the HDMI connection.

I have had the opportunity to hear the Ref70 with the toslink/coaxial connection and it had a wonderful detailed, clear and open sound, I am wondering if it will be the same with the HDMI connection.

I think I remember reading earlier there are some differences, but didn't describe the differences.

Any insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

David
post #46 of 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjt5282 View Post

I am considering the Ref 70, Marantz and Integra for my new pre-pro. So I have a few questions...

The manual makes no mention of DSD over HDMI.

Does the Ref 70 accept DSD over HDMI from SACD or must the player convert to PCM first ?

I have been able to get the Ref. 70 to playback a DSD stream from my Oppo DVD player, but only in stereo. I have sent my player into B&K for them to test, and hopefully develop a firmware upgrade to make it work for Multi-channel discs.
post #47 of 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigslue View Post

Can't seem to get the Ref70 and either of my PC's to talk to each other.

Update: Finally after 2 cables and a lot of scratching my thinning head of hair and a few 4 letter words I got my Ref70 updated to firmware version 1.04. It also updated the video version to 1.20.

Hint: Remember to turn off your firewall! The one thing I didn't think of was to turn off my wireless. Not sure why that would make any difference but it seemed to matter with my setup? I'm no genius when it comes to PC's so this may be PC101 for some?

Craig,

Sorry for taking so long to get back.

I used a MacBook Pro running XP on a Mac wireless network. The 70 is connected directly to an Airport Express. I was able to update over the network using the "HTTP Flash Update" program provided by B&K.

Have you noticed a faster boot time?


Can someone that still has v1.02 time the power-up sequence? It seems a lot faster to me.

ck
post #48 of 1400
A few questions about the Ref 70:

Any word on an upgrade to use something like the Audyssey system for speaker setup?

What is the latest on getting the High Definition audio upgrade?

If you use use the 7.1 inputs and allow the Blu-Ray player to decode the sound, do you still get your speaker and bass management settings? Or does this have to be set in the Blu-Ray player?

Any word on upgrades or trade ins for Ref 50 owners?
post #49 of 1400
I just flashed my Ref 70 from 1.03 to 1.04. The entire process went very smooth. The flash program updated from the web, then flashed my unit. Everything seemed too easy. Problem is the unit now appears to be dead. After the flash, no sound. So i shut it off, turned it back on and it just hangs at the Welcome screen, with 'please wait' on the front display.

Any ideas? Should i reflash it?
post #50 of 1400
Nevermind. I reflashed the unit to 1.04 (what did i have to lose?) and it works fine. Wow. I'm impressed - even with the unit locked up on the front welcome screen I was able to connect over my network and reflash the unit. Everything seems fine... now back to pure listening pleasure.

And, yes, the software/network features are amazing.
post #51 of 1400
I'm lookiing on the B&K website for the 1.04 update and not finding it. I'd appreciate some help.

What new features or fixes are included?
post #52 of 1400
Another question. If I have a 5 speaker setup (and sub) what speaker configuration does a person use? I've read in the quick setup to use the preout for the 'side' speakers instead of rear. Question is, in the setup menus there is a setting for 5 Rear or 5 Side... what should a person use?
post #53 of 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxerboy View Post

I'm lookiing on the B&K website for the 1.04 update and not finding it. I'd appreciate some help.

What new features or fixes are included?

I used the firmware update software which you can download from their website or find on the CD which came with the preamp. It automatically downloaded the new firmware and installed it to the Ref 70.

Not sure what fixes are included.
post #54 of 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigslue View Post

I've had the same question about the 5 side/5 rear. Guess I should look at the manual thats posted on there site.

Hey guys. The answer is Side 5. It's easy to think of our surround speakers behind us and to then want to call it back 5, but that's just not the case. Side 5 is the format used for all 5.1 applications. Back 5 is for 7.1 incorporating the surroundBACK channels as you will see them labeled on the back of your preamp. You can confirm this in your manual, or at www.dts.com, or www.thx.com
Ryan
post #55 of 1400
Thank you. Will use 5 Side.
post #56 of 1400
What sort of video filter settings are you guys using for SD and HD?
post #57 of 1400
So I was able to successfully do my first firmware upgrade to 1.04! After messing with my network settings for a long while to be able to see the Ref. 70 (had to add its MAC address into my filter list, duh!) the upgrade went fairly smoothly. After several reboots (automatically) I was back up and running. Unfortunately, every setting known to man was reverted back to the factory defaults

Does anyone know if there is a way to save those settings somehow? I sure don't look forward to setting levels, distances, input names, resolutions, ect. every time a firmware update comes out.

By the way, here is an update from B&K regarding my issues with SACDs and DSD playback...

"We were able to get SACD to work with your OPPO player. We found an error with our default DSD EDID settings. Once we plugged in the correct numbers for use with DSD over HDMI, all worked as expected?? FYI, we currently control the SACD/DSD by our BKC-DIP back door debug commands.

The OPPO must have its SACD over HDMI set to DSD under setup page 3?.

We still have a few user interface issues with how SACD (DSD) it is to be selected. Ideally we should set the SACD EDID capability on our side, then when the AVI info frame from the player changes we will would automatically select SACD on the OPPO player. Currently we manually configure our Audio EDID which then requires the OPPO to select SACD manually again under Setup Pg 3 again.... to hear the SACD audio.

We are in the process of another Rev for the REF70, it will fix a few PnP pink video color mapping issues and add support for 1080P 24 Hz monitor resolution. We will attempt to put in a way to select SACD, but it might not get finished until we get to the next Rev sometime next month. The reason for the delay is that we need to test the code with our current list of Blu-Ray and HDMI DVD players (about 15 and growing). But, we will get to the SACD play back, we just need to get the interface to not break our PnP with other players."
post #58 of 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by omnikurt View Post

We are in the process of another Rev for the REF70, it will...add support for 1080P 24 Hz monitor resolution...."

Napoleon Dynamite: Swwwweeeetttt!
post #59 of 1400
Hello everyone,

I am debating purchasing a Ref 70 within the next month. While I really, really want Audyssey or an equivalent, I understand that is coming. I also know that the new board to allow it to handle the new audio formats is on the way, and soon..

As far as sound quality, I've been told, at length, by one of the most honest audio people I know that it is outstanding. I also like the idea of supporting an American company truly trying to make quality euipment, supporting it, and continuing to make improvements to it.

Are you happy with Ref 70's you've purchased? Is this pre-pro ready for prime time as we speak? Are you happy with the interface and ease of setting up the unit? If you had it all to do over again, would you still go with the Ref 70? Thanks for your thoughts.

Mine would soley be utilized for home theater purposes. Two channel listening is handled via another system.


John
post #60 of 1400
John Clark:

I've had mine for about a month and couldn't be happier. I have an acoustically neutral room so I don't feel a need for any Audyssey like post-processing. However, you can use the built-in notch filters to accomplish the same thing right now.

Please feel free to ask any specific questions.

Jim Lunden
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