B&K Reference 70 Owners Thread - Page 4

Wow. I'd say it was your mains and sub canceling one another if it weren't for the fact that it occurs with the mains set to small.

I'd suggest moving the sub. Any corner will reinforce bass, but it could be overloading some frequencies, and underloading 70Hz. I understand the WAF, but move it temporarily nonetheless (while she's out doing last minute Christmas shopping). Even subtle movement away from the corner can make a difference.

If you can just bring up 70hz to a reasonable level, you can then notch other frequencies down and compensate with overall gain.

I guess it's changed then. I have a 307 in for repair right now, and I asked the guy in service about this (Chris). He says it has been decided that a trade-in through B&K would be available, but pricing wouldn't be set until after 1/1/09. Because the chassis of the Ref20/30/50 is different from the 70 it was going to have to be a trade-in not a software upgrade.

Also, to the guy with the 507 with pops and clicks. You're misinformed about the cost to fix your problem (most likely). Version 1.04 was the first firmware version and has been replaced with 2.03 which fixes the clicks and the pops. I've had it done to my Ref 50. There was no cost to me other than shipping back to B&K, they even shipped it back to me at their cost.

Smitty,

Others have mentioned that a fw update fixed the problem but IIRC others were still having problems.

Also, not sure what the first fw was but it wasn't 1.04. The Ref 50 I recently sold had v1.03 when I purchased it back in 2003. It only produced mild pops and clicks so I never felt the need to update.

ck

The reason I started with my first B&K 307 and then the Ref 50 was because they were manufactured in the USA. I really hope B&K offers a trade up program, I really want to stay with B&K and this would be a good reason, if not I'm really looking at the New Outlaw preamp coming out, and I know it's not made in the US but the cost differential is huge.

I talked to a tech at B&K today. He told me that they are aware of the popping-clicking noises that some units make when switching between sources and are developing a firmware fix for it. He said that the firmware could be available in a month's time. I sure hope that they release it soon because the loud popping noise I hear everytime I switch between sources (or even when I play or fast forward my Comcast DVR) is really bothering me. I keep wondering if I am doing any damage to my B&W speakers. I never experienced the problem with my Ref50 Series 1.

The tech also said that he does not think that the upgrade that will allow the Ref70 to internally decode the lossless Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA will come out "before the spring of next year". But he did confirm that when it does come out, it will be a free upgrade.

He also promised to send me a manual by mail since I did not get one with my Ref70.

So far, I've not seen or heard anything that convinces me that it was worthwhile for me to upgrade from the Ref50. I really want to convince myself that the money I shelled out for the unit was worth it, but ..... I hope that I have a different opinion when spring rolls around and B&K has fixed my popping/clicking noise and upgraded the Ref70 to internally decode the lossless audio codecs.

Cal68

I would have to agree. There is no compelling reason to upgrade from the Ref 50 at this time.

If you need HDMI video switching, buy an inexpensive outboard switcher. The Ref 70 requires that the HD codecs be decoded in the player. So, if you have a decoding player, you can feed a Ref 50 the multichannel PCM through the DVD-A inputs. It can process and matrix surround back channels using a THX mode, or B&K's proprietary 7 channel processing. A Ref 50 II can do the same with PLIIx. The Ref 70 cannot process 7.1 from 5.1 MPCM, so you are actually taking a step backwards if you have a 7.1 system.

I was set to purchase a REF 70 pre/pro and was only waiting for confirmation that the upgrade for the new audio formats would indeed be available in January as was noted previously here on AVS. The room correction software upgrade that had been expected this spring is also critical to me. This has me rethinking whether this is the time to jump in.

I'm also especially concerned about the fact that B&K, as have a number of it's competitors, might slow down, or even put such upgrades on hold due to the current economic situation.

As long as I can be guaranteed that the unit will be able to decode Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA etc. relatively soon, and also be assured that the room correction upgrade will also be ready within 6 months, maximum. I'm ready to write the check. Otherwise, I may have to settle for something less, but actually available, which sincerely hope isn't the case.
Any thoughts?


John

I don't believe that B&K has promised room correction.

John,

if you have to have bitstream decoding capability and room correction I suggest to wait for it. Many things can happen in half a year.

Personally I would not suggest to anybody to buy a piece of equipment based on promised features IF he would not buy it without them.

If you want something that does not sound that mainstream and if you can live with a workaround or two I am personally very fond of the AVR 645 and 745 from Hk, they make great pre/pros and might get successors next months so if you can still find one they will be very cheap.

Oliver

John

I have to agree with Oliver that you should wait before you get yourself a Ref70. While I'm pretty sure that B&K will eventually come out with a lossless audio decoding upgrade, I've not heard anything that definitely states that they will come out with room correction.

Cal68

My Pioneer BDP-51FD arrives on Monday and while there's an owners thread for this machine most of the connectivity/settings advice is naturally geared toward Kuro displays and Pioneer AVRs. So... any Ref 70 owners have setting recommendations for this unit?


Thanks,

ck

Got an email from someone at B&K stating that we MAY get a fw update as early as Monday.

I'd previously asked if the 1080P/24 issue would be addressed in this update but no reply.

ck

Chris the profesional setting yields the best results. Make sure you download latest firmware. Some swear by the analog outs for 2 channel thus utilizing the wolfson dacs, although not sure , the B&K dacs might be better? I'd try it both ways to compare. Error correction is not good so clean discs before use.

Thanks, chatanika. I've asked a dealer that is knowledgeable about the 70 to chime-in on the DACs.

ck

Does anyone have a problem with HDMI sources losing audio and/or video signal occasionally? If I do a hard power down of the unit (sometimes more than once) the signal is restored. It is better with Firmware 1.04, but still happens.

I had these problems quite often when I first got my Ref 70. After unplugging the Ref 70 and letting it sit overnight before restarting it, the problems have pretty much gone away. My Ref 70 came with the 1.04 firmware, so I can't compare it to previous versions.

Now if B&K would hurry up and release the Hi Def audio upgrade so I can use all of the equalization and bass management features of my processor, I will be happy.

I have my new Sony BDP S550 connected to my new B&K Ref 70. If I use the analog outputs from the player to the processor, I get 7.1 channels (I'm using the Blu-Ray "Rush Hour 3" which is encoded with DTS HD MA 7.1). If I use the HDMI connection for audio, I only get 5.1 channels. I wonder if the player is actually sending the full 7.1 channels over PCM? Or is the Ref 70 not capable of 7.1 over the HDMI connection?

Just my guess, but the DSD1608 could be a dedicated converter for incoming SACD, with the 1796s dedicated to analog conversion. At least I hope they aren't using a cheap 7-channel converter for the RCA output.

New B&K Ref. 70 owner here. I picked it up from Magnolia Hi-Fi last Friday. So far, I have a mixed review.

Pros:
Movie performance with the Ref. 70 decoding DD/DTS is amazing! It's the best "HT" experience I've heard/seen yet.

Cons:
It's probably my fault for not investigating this more before hand, but I don't have a subwoofer as my fronts push more then enough bass for me and my condo. Using 7.1 PCM I lose *all* LFE since the audio is basically in passthrough mode. Major bummer! I suppose this will be fixed by the HD codec update.

I'm having pretty significant stability problems. I've had the unit crash/freeze on me at least once a day. I notice the frequently when changing audio options, the video will freeze and the unit will reboot "resetting video" several times. I usually have to power cycle when this starts. Hopefully a new firmware fixes this. I'm running 1.03 at the moment.

I have lots and lots of audible popping/hissing when changing sources or settings. Video also flashes like crazy when anything changes. If I switch to "DVD Audio" mode for 7.1 PCM the video literally flashes on and off for 30+ seconds.

I'm really not impressed with 2-chan music performance at all. The Outlaw 990 blows it away musically. Even my 5 year old Yamaha RX-1300 reciever exposes more details in PCM 2.0 music. It's very flat an uninsipred to me. Details I'm used to hearing on other hardware are lost. For reasons that I don't yet fully understand, DVD music in DD/DTS sounds fantastic... I'm not sure yet if that's just my knowledge of the material, the DSPs, or what....

I'm really looking forward to the DSP upgrade, which I understand should be ready "any day now" to see if that helps any.

Also, I was really suprised to open the box and see an E.I. power transformer hiding in there...

Jason:

I believe your resetting video has to do with reestablishing the HDMI "handshake" and is part of the fun of HDMI.

I don't understand your comment about 7.1 PCM. If this is coming in over your HDMI cable, I don't think the REF70 is capable of decoding it without the upcoming new daughter board.

My two channel music sounds good to me using the "pure stereo" mode. I'm bringing in SP/DIF signals using a digital coax cable from my SqueezeBox3. The DAC's in the REF70 compare very favorably with the sound from my Transporter's analog output.

Jim

Perhaps. I don't see this with the player is connected directly to my TV via HDMI though. Also when the video flashes, audio stops/pops also.


I have a 5.0 system; fronts, center, sides. No rears or sub. If I set B&K on "DVD Audio" it seems perfectly capable of recieving the multi-channel LPCM stream. The front of the B&K says "PCM 7.1". However, all EQ and audio processing is disabled (seems like the DSP is just bypassed.) Because of this, I have *no* LFE. I assume this will be fixed with the DSP upgrade.


To each their own, but in my particular setup, I'm disappointed with the stereo performance compared to other pre-amps I've tried in my living room. I have only used HDMI so far, so I'll try out SPDIF when I get home later.

Jason,

Interesting post. I'm confused about the DSP implementation in the DVD-Audio mode as well. I was convinced that the DSP was inactive when using the DVD-Audio mode, but I do seem to be able to adjust levels. Wouldn't that infer some type of processing? I realize the level control is much different than channel steering/bass redirect, but there is definitely some kind of control.

I've talked to the guys at B&K about a couple of issues, and so far, I've not seen any solutions. Back in October, I was promised a firmware upgrade for SACD playback using DSD, so far nothing... I think a couple of their engineers need to take some Ref. 70s home and implement them into their own systems. Then maybe they would be more motivated to solve some of these problems.

By the way, my unit clicks up a storm when switching sources. Not very loud, or damaging, but audible clicking none the less. The video goes in/out as the HDMI handshakes as well. I guess that's just the nature of HDMI.

Channel levels are managed by the DSP, but they are implemented in the analog domain. They apply to all output.

I have spoke with one of the tech support guys and he told me there is no upgrade to DD HD or DTD HD audio anytime soon. Also no room correction is planned.
After all I have read about people talking about these upgrades, I wanna know where they got there info????

Dan

Some references:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post12960853

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post13112962

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14354852

If you could get that confirmed in email I will certainly update the lists.

Dan,


SteveH is a dealer for B&K, amongst many other brands. I have dealt with Steve a number of times, and he is honest, trustworthy, and knows his stuff. He was been working closely with B&K directly to verify what they had intended to provide as upgrades for both the DD HD or DTD HD and room correction. Take a look at the link below for information on both of those topics.

The daughterboard to address the new audio formats was originally due this January, but last I heard, was delayed for a few months. I'm not questioning what the tech support guy you talked to said, but something isn't adding up here. To be honest, without the audio format upgrades, and especially without room correction, the REF 70 will be completely dead in the water as far as new sales. And I seriously doubt that B&K would allow that to happen after all the the research, development and production costs that they have tied up in the REF 70.


John


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...065162&page=16

When I purchased my Ref. 70 last Friday, my sales guy got on the phone with B&K and confirmed that the HD upgrade would be ready "any day now". I'm going to be a very unhappy camper if that turns out not to be the case.

I do feel a lot better about the power supply section after reading the comments from SteveH.

It's quite possible that I've completely lost my mind but... I swapped my cables around for SPDIF (TOSLINK) tonight, and I swear it sounds a lot better. Details that I thought I had lost are back.

This confuses me, I have no clue why PCM 2.0 would sound better over SPIDIF than HDMI.