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Your "World's Best Audio System" - Page 6

post #151 of 1216
10/23/08 at 10:21am
I'm still amazed by the sound of the bigger Apogees. Although, I've never heard anything except for jazz or classical on them, so they may fall apart on some of my music (as many speakers do). It would be interesting to see how they hold up.
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post #152 of 1216
10/23/08 at 10:23am
OB, I don't think there is anything wrong with the X2's being augmented by sat subs... but I agree with you for 2 channel music listening... I keep all five of my subs off.
The full range capability of the X2 provides the proper amount of bass for music. Unless we are talking about electronica, etc...
For home theatre, the X2 needs a lot of help, as provided by your Gothams.
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post #153 of 1216
10/23/08 at 10:25am
Stating the obvious my opinion is purely subjective, and not above anybody elses here, but I have yet to hear a pair of Revels that I like... maybe these new ones Alimentall refers to, but otherwise I found them very lacking. I recognize my impaired hearing frequency response might play a role here, but I hear the Wilsons as being far out and beyond Revel.
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post #154 of 1216
10/23/08 at 10:59am
Tzucc, the new Ultimas are a bit 'matter of fact' and can be a bit, well, less than flattering for a lot of compressed rock music (no rolloff or loss in the upper midrange, no midbass bump), but are amazingly lifelike on acoustic recordings and are extremely seamless and neutral and resolving. They are SOTA as far as pure [passive] speaker engineering. But as we find out with many products, SOTA is in the ear of the beholder. When the Revel Ultimas first came out, the B&W Matrix III was still in production, I believe, if that gives you an idea of how old the originals were.
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post #155 of 1216
10/23/08 at 11:13am
T, I share your opinion on Revel speakers (excluding Revel subs), and that includes the new ones.

Having stated this, and with proper respect to Jeff, Revel has been offered up as a suggestion and Jeff has no doubt duly noted it. Isn't it time to move on to other WBAS suggestions?
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post #156 of 1216
10/23/08 at 11:20am
How about these -



John
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post #157 of 1216
10/23/08 at 11:59am
That's their peasant system. Which is their "rich idiot" system?
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post #158 of 1216
10/23/08 at 12:00pm
Thread Starter 
Just a few updates: Time frame for setting up the system looks like February right now. As you can imagine there are lots of logistical issues to be addressed and I'm working through some of these currently. Articles will roll out sometime after then.

As components are written in stone I'll reveal the participants here first. There are no forums on our sites and I know you guys will click over once articles are published.

One company so far has given a verbal OK and once that's final in the next week or so I'll announce it. The system will hopefully be set up for two months which should allow some of you to visit if you'd like -- I'm in coastal NC.
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post #159 of 1216
10/23/08 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I'm still amazed by the sound of the bigger Apogees. Although, I've never heard anything except for jazz or classical on them, so they may fall apart on some of my music (as many speakers do). It would be interesting to see how they hold up.

I "inherited" a pair of Divas ... They are still amazingly good sounding but ridiculously inefficient speakers, only arc-welders-type amplifiers can properly drive these...
The Graz Apogee-inspired top-of-the line speakers are an improvement over what Apogee started, efficiency is said to be very high >100dB and impedance is almost resistive.. Has anyone heard one of these?
Two other speakers I would like to see in this review:
Magico Model 6, from what I have heard from the Mini, if this thing is a full range version of the mini, then we may have a true contender to the world's best.
The Evolution Acoustics MMThree, One of our Forum member, Mike LAvigne went from the VR9 (a superlative speaker) to the MMThree. Price seems reasonable. Based on Mike L words, this is a very special speaker...
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post #160 of 1216
10/23/08 at 2:35pm


Very high-tech drivers, but of course, this is another designer who apparently thinks you can't have too much diffraction in a speaker.



Did these get posted? These look pretty close to idealized.



These, though, are closer to idealized design
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post #161 of 1216
10/23/08 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhagi Katbamna View Post

That's their peasant system. Which is their "rich idiot" system?

Eliminated due to the highly unlikely chance it would sound remotely decent.
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post #162 of 1216
10/23/08 at 2:55pm
But maybe the new B&W 1602 system would be a winner

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post #163 of 1216
10/23/08 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrantzM View Post

I "inherited" a pair of Divas ... They are still amazingly good sounding but ridiculously inefficient speakers, only arc-welders-type amplifiers can properly drive these...
The Graz Apogee-inspired top-of-the line speakers are an improvement over what Apogee started, efficiency is said to be very high >100dB and impedance is almost resistive.. Has anyone heard one of these?
..

I don't think the ribbons are quite that efficient for Graz newest products, more in the vicinity of 95db. He uses much more powerful magnets in his own Apogee line the Synergy and the Definitive. The legacy and rebuilt Apogees remain at the 86db range. Not many guys have heard the more efficient models, they are custom ordered. The only show that the "Synergy" was heard at was London last year and the reports and interest were highly favorable. I believe that the "Grand" model and the "Studio Grand"models from the traditional Apogee line may be about 89-91db efficient due to more powerful magnets and active crossovers.
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post #164 of 1216
10/23/08 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjfrbw View Post

I don't think the ribbons are quite that efficient for Graz newest products, more in the vicinity of 95db. He uses much more powerful magnets in his own Apogee line the Synergy and the Definitive. The legacy and rebuilt Apogees remain at the 86db range. Not many guys have heard the more efficient models, they are custom ordered. The only show that the "Synergy" was heard at was London last year and the reports and interest were highly favorable. I believe that the "Grand" model and the "Studio Grand"models from the traditional Apogee line may be about 89-91db efficient due to more powerful magnets and active crossovers.

I had the original full range Apogees, and drove them with 4 Krell monoblocks. The room required no heating during the winter. They sounded very good, but had problems in the bass. I heard the Grands at a CES and they were definitely a step up. I wish I'd had the chance to hear them in a better listening environment.

Lee
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post #165 of 1216
10/23/08 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBFC View Post

I had the original full range Apogees, and drove them with 4 Krell monoblocks. The room required no heating during the winter. They sounded very good, but had problems in the bass. I heard the Grands at a CES and they were definitely a step up. I wish I'd had the chance to hear them in a better listening environment.

Lee

Heh, Heh, yeah, the real efficiency pigs were the 'Full Range" and the "Scintilla", with very low impedances to boot, in the 79-82db efficiency range. The Scintilla was the classic amp destroyer, with the 1 ohm model. There are still designers trying to figure out how to make a tube amp work with that one with only limited success.
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post #166 of 1216
10/23/08 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjfrbw View Post

Heh, Heh, yeah, the real efficiency pigs were the 'Full Range" and the "Scintilla", with very low impedances to boot, in the 79-82db efficiency range. The Scintilla was the classic amp destroyer, with the 1 ohm model. There are still designers trying to figure out how to make a tube amp work with that one with only limited success.

I never heard mine in the pure triamp mode. The midrange ribbon was 0.1 Ohm, and would have required yet another pair of Krell monos. That would have required another dedicated 20 amp power circuit, not to mention the additional $$ for two more Krells.

Now, we should allow this thread to return to its stated purpose.

Lee
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post #167 of 1216
10/24/08 at 10:44am
The other memory that is embedded in my memory is first listening to Dahlquist DQ 10s in the 1970's great sound. I heard the big Infinity speaker that they had at that time and it was strange hearing the piano coming from 6 foot above the floor.
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post #168 of 1216
10/24/08 at 10:25pm
My idol in the AV world is an artist friend from NYC, who has owned just about every high end piece availible. His personal favorite would be the German Physics Gaudi. He unfortunately does not frequent these AVS forums.
http://www.german-physiks.com/german...udi-mk-ii.html
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post #169 of 1216
10/25/08 at 2:03am
I'm quite intrigued by the new Grande Utopia EM.

http://www.grande-utopia-em.com/

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post #170 of 1216
10/25/08 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

I'm quite intrigued by the new Grande Utopia EM.

http://www.grande-utopia-em.com/


I was too...then I learned they were 180k a pair.
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post #171 of 1216
10/25/08 at 7:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post

I was too...then I learned they were 180k a pair.

All the more reason to be intrigued . At least they fit in perfectly with the spirit of this thread.
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post #172 of 1216
10/25/08 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post



Did these get posted? These look pretty close to idealized.



These, though, are closer to idealized design

These have a nice sound. But at nearly $300K list, there are literally dozens of better sounding choices at a fraction of the cost!
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post #173 of 1216
10/25/08 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

These have a nice sound. But at nearly $300K list, there are literally dozens of better sounding choices at a fraction of the cost!

They look like Marten Coltrane speakers.

If so I heard them in Boulder and they were very decent but not one that I would put at the top of my list and certainly not with an MSRP of $300K
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post #174 of 1216
10/25/08 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneobgyn View Post

They look like Marten Coltrane speakers.

If so I heard them in Boulder and they were very decent but not one that I would put at the top of my list and certainly not with an MSRP of $300K

My thoughts exactly. I heard these at RMAF both this year and last year.
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post #175 of 1216
10/25/08 at 8:52am
Hey, that's what I think pretty much *every* time I hear a speaker like that! Which is why I think it takes far more than a collection of good drivers in a box with a passive crossover parts to advance the current SOTA or even represent it.
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post #176 of 1216
10/25/08 at 3:36pm
I know it's already been mentioned, but the Rockport Arrakis is at the top of the list of speakers that I'd like to experience. It be really interesting to see how they compare to the X-2s.
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post #177 of 1216
10/26/08 at 8:48am
Yeah, everyone wants to hear about a comparison between the X-2 v2's and the Arrakis, that is except for Dave Wilson and the people who already own the X-2's. Then we would all know if the title of "authentic excellence" is truly earned or just good advertising.
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post #178 of 1216
10/26/08 at 8:55am
Well, the Rockport actually measures well, so it would be up there for me too. Most 'high-end' speakers measure so badly that I have no desire to seek them out and hear how a speaker can measure badly and sound [supposedly] good at the same time.

The one thing I find that I don't like time after time is an MTM midrange arrangement. There is too much detectable acoustic interference between the drivers for me, even on axis. I haven't found an exception to this [yet], even with brands I like.
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post #179 of 1216
10/26/08 at 4:02pm
Thread Starter 
TWBAS Update:

I'm amazed at the responses that I have received in this thread, the number of views, and the number of private emails and messages I've received from regular guys and manufacturers alike. It confirms for me that AVS was exactly the right spot to do this, specifically this forum. So thanks!

I now have two confirmed participants! Both of these companies are ones taken directly from the suggestions here. My plan is to roll them out to you guys about one per week. You'll here about the first company this week.

There are a number of other companies under consideration and my plan is to have everything set in about two weeks. I can tell you that so far the system plan is exceeding my wildest expectations. It should be truly an extraordinary event!

Some other news: I have had the suggestion and can now confirm that there will be two TWBASs set up per year. The first in 2009 is of course the cost-no-object system. After that I will be researching and assembling systems at different price points. The next one will be, I'm thinking right now, the best that can be put together for $25,000. Please don't populate this thread with those suggestions, however, let's save that debate for next year.

I am planning to make the system available to readers and AVS members for a period of time after the set-up event. Please give me your thoughts on this. A couple of guys have expressed some interest, both on the forum and in private. If there is REAL interest in coming here perhaps we can plan a weekend for the guys in this thread. Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,
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post #180 of 1216
10/26/08 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHTFRED View Post

Yeah, everyone wants to hear about a comparison between the X-2 v2's and the Arrakis, that is except for Dave Wilson and the people who already own the X-2's. Then we would all know if the title of "authentic excellence" is truly earned or just good advertising.

you're blowin' hot air out of your rear port. If you would like to hear first hand a response to your question we can do that by PM

Jeff Fritz.....Jeff I know you have switched to different speakers BUT you must have the X-2 Series ll as a candidate in your short list of candidates. Jeff if you can recall our visit to see the X-1 Series lll vs newly released X2. Ath that time you and I had the X-1 Series lll. Your comment to me upon your return was to the effect that the X-1 sounded broken in comparison to the new speaker. I did visit Dave's house for the demo and you and I both got X-2's.
Well Jeff having done first hand comparison on the X2 Series l and series ll in my system I can tell you that the experience is the same. This is not a subtle difference but extraordinary to the point that 8 men yesterday got waylayed due to listening to this speaker.

For me the choice is simple...X-2 series ll without hesitation.
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