Convince me why onkyo 805 is better then H/K 354

No...convince us why an HK 354 is better then an Onkyo 805

Quality for Onkyo is one reason. HK has issues with there software/hardware...and they also have crappy support for there products. I got the HK 354 and returned it because I heard horror stories about how the HDMI handshaking wouldn't work, Audio cutouts...and it all seemed to be software related, and thus HK has updates almost on a monthly basis to fix there crippled AV recievers. Don't get me wrong HK is a well known brand and back in the day they used to be great, but since them they have gone down hill.

Also Onkyo to me has a way better looking unit...I personally have the Pioneer Elite VSX-01TXH which is comperable to the AVR 354 and the 805 is all specs...except for probably wattage...but Im happy with it.

Onkyo TX-SR805: Weight 50.9 pounds.

Harman Kardon AVR354: Weight 31.5 pounds.

TX-SR805: Rated at 130 watts/channel into eight ohms, actually delivers 130 watts/channel. Certified to run four ohms in all channels with appropriate setting.

AVR354: Rated at 75 watts/channel into eight ohms, actually delivers ?? Cannot find a review of it. Doubtful that it's more than 130 watts. Specifies eight ohm speakers only (on back panel - makes no mention of speaker impedance whatsoever in the owner's manual).

TX-SR805: Has available THX processing and Audyssey MultiEQ XT.

AVR354: Has EzSet EQ.


Convinced yet?

Onkyo 805:

Burr Brown 192 kHz/24-Bit Audio DACs.

Dual Push-Pull Amplifier Design with 3-Stage Inverted Darlington Circuitry.

Power amplifier block and the pre-amplifier coexist, but are perfectly isolated.

Circuitboards have been affixed to the chassis so that vibrations from the
base are suppressed.

and you will stay warm in the winters with the 805

That works for us, as our heat pump only functions in A/C mode... so we're stuck using furnace heat alone.

Unfortunately, using the low impedance speaker setting, the 805 barely gets warm, even after a full action movie at -5dB, or being on all day at more sane levels.

The 805 runs much cooler than the previous two receivers I owned. One was also set for low impedance loads, but both only had five channels rated at 80w each, and far less video circuitry.

Yes, its the hottest of all the receivers tested. Just make sure you have proper ventilation for it.

IMO, If I want a great amp I would buy a separate amp and not worry about the amp that is put inside a processor box. That goes for any AVR and not just the 805.

Also the posted ratings above are an apples vs orange comparison HK does a different rating with their watts and the industry believes it to be more accurate...I would suspect the TRUE difference in Watts here is probably less then 30W and if you have to realize that 100W vs 130W is pretty meaningless in the world of SPL....BOTH are limiting and both introduce more distortion because you are closer to clipping.

IMO, If we want to discuss power and dynamic SPL ranges then we need to START with requirements like 200W/ch anything less is a compromise of a properly design HT system.

interesting

cheers

I disagree with this. There's no reason a great amplifier can't be inside a receiver, and as far as I can tell, the 805 has just such an amplifier.


I will agree that the apparent difference between 100w and 130w is miniscule and likely not noticeable to most people. However, I disagree that they are rated differently. These are both taken from their respective specification lists on the web sites:

Onyko TX-SR805: "Front L/R 130 W + 130 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,
0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)"

AVR354: "Continuous Average Power (FTC) per Channel : 75 Watts per channel, 20Hz - 20kHz, @ <0.07% THD, both channels driven into 8 ohms"

Where is the difference in rating? Now if you're arguing that the AVR354 actually exceeds it's rating, and puts out 100w/channel at the same 0.07% THD, that's fine. But I couldn't find any review stating such.



I completely disagree with this. Any assertion of power requirements for a 'properly design HT system' (whatever that may be) must take into account both room size and speaker efficiency. To say that you need a minimum of 200w/channel completely disregards those with small rooms or efficient speakers, or at best, asserts that you need higher than THX reference levels. In an average sized home living/theater room situation (2000-3000 cubic feet), speakers with a 93+dB efficiency at one watt don't need anywhere remotely near 200 watts to achieve THX reference levels - not even one quarter that much. And that's assuming all speakers are running full range, which we all know is almost never the proper way to setup the system. Remove bass from the front and surround channels, and actual power requirements drop even farther. Add this to the fact that THX reference level, in my experience, tends to be much too loud in a home environment - most prefer to run -5dB to -15dB below reference, and you need significantly less power still.

All that said, even a system which cannot reach THX reference levels, either as a result of speaker limitations or amplifier limitations, can still be properly designed - as long as the goals for the system are met.

I did an A/B comparison between an HK AVR 247 and Onkyo 804 (805 was not out yet) last April (2007). The 247 killed the 804 in music quality. I tested it using the SACD version of Dire Straits Brothers in Arms played using my PS3 connected to the receivers using HDMI (PCM 5.1) and my speakers are Klipsch RF5, RC7, RS35. I eq'd the 247 using EzSet/EQ and the Onkyo using the Audessy/MultEQ. The HK 247 sounded fuller. The voice of the singer had more life.

The Onkyo just did not do it for me. Remember, I paid $450 for the 247 and $1049 for the 804 (of course if the price is half as much - it would still not beat the 247).

I then returned both Onkyo and the 247 and bought a HK 745 for $785 (refurb'd) and have been a happy camper. The 247 is rated as 50WPC all channels driven. It easily kept up with the 804 that is rated more than twice as much.

So, as far as audio quality goes, the 247 was easily the victor. The 745 is even better than that. I have not listened to the 805 personally nor the 354, but suffice it to say that I like HK's audio quality better then Onkyos. Also, HK's service is actually better than Onkyo's. I get personal emails back from my contact at HK and he is quite knowledgeable and glad to help. The only area that HK lags Onkyo is the initial product quality. I agree that there are a lot of software/hardware bugs in the HK receivers. Luckily, I am enjoying my HK 745 which has been working great for about 16 months now. I have 3 years of warranty total.

Your requirements may be a bit high for your average AV buyer

I added a 200x2 two channel amp to my Yamaha RX-V2700, and heard no compelling difference. I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect I could spend $700 on that Emotiva 3-channel amp (a resonable price, and a nice look product mind you,) and I bet I would also not hear a compelling difference.

Obviously everyone's needs differ, and your may very well require more amplification than my setup. But I have yet to experience anything that makes me think I have a compromised setup.

I agree that separates would be ideal, but show me a comparable pre/pro (hdmi 1.3a, latest codecs, etc,) and power amp combo for around $600 brand new. Doesn't exist. That's why the 805 is such a good deal, much stronger than average amplifier, and all the features too. Also, the heatsinks for the amp which are located in the middle of the receiver do not get hot. The far right corner of the amp where the video processor and HDMI in/out is where the heat is generated, and it can get pretty warm without adequate ventilation. It won't heat your room or melt the plastic on your tv, so don't worry. Trash it all you want, but the 805 was the biggest bargain to date in AVR history, IMHO. Onkyo realized this too and released the 806.

805>804. Two different receivers. the 745 is a very nice receiver too.

I sell both and the 805 is a beast, tons of power, plenty of inputs and very user friendly. The 806 is even better, not upconvertion to 1080P where as the 805 only does 720P. I own the 805 and absolutely love it. I've demoed the 354 many times in our store and it does nothing but glitch out especially if you want to switch between different audio codecs on BD movies. We've replaced four 354's in the past few months we're as our 805 ran flawlessly for a year until we brought out the new 806. My opinion is the 805 all the way!