Originally Posted by Aeneas
The TV Tuner business was ATI's to lock up years ago. They failed to consolidate their advantage and for years there was chaos in the TV Tuner business.
Yeah, they were alone. Their software was never that good, they were just the only option.
With the explosion of video in the past few years, ATI should have veen in position to buy AMD, rather than the other way round. ATI's management crew should have been rounded up and fired on the day AMD took charge.
Wow, you over estimate the the size of the PC "TV" market by many orders of magnitude. For example only a small fraction of Windows Media Center users use the TV functionality.
Are you saying that 1394 has commands which allow control of channels in out and tuners' frequencies ?
Yes, many people use firewire to change channels on STBs. But beyond that IEEE-1394 is the "official" connection for recording digital video from STBs. Try a search on D-VHS and DTCP.
Content providers want to deny high resolution or want all their content denied to the PC ?
Both. Content owners want their content tightly controlled, and they can't do that on PCs, so they have no desire to make it easy for PCs to access their content.
See the OCUR, HDCP, Blu-ray, AACS, and all the other DRM snafus.
Recording of content has been going on for decades.
The content owners have never liked it though.
The PC is just a new venue.
Yes, but two things are different in the PC era:
1) PCs are a bigger security hole (ie BT, P2P, etc).
2) With digital broadcast, providers have the tools to prevent recording, and to limit what devices are allowed to record.
1) The OCUR non-STB solution is not available widely, is not distributed through major retail channels, requires CableCard, etc.
But it is the official, sanctioned, "industry supported" way to record digital cable on PCs. It has the best integration (no IR blasters, no STB to control, etc).
For high resolution video input to the PC, the only solution emanate from the Set Top Box.
OCUR can record full HD video in 100% quality. No STB-involved solution (save R5000) can do that.
No STBs support this functionality, none.
2) Again, there are several arguments which need to be passed to the STB to control the 2 or more frequencies tuned, program which channels 2 or more Picture In Picture output signals should occupy, etc.
Nothing outputs two channels at the same time. Nor would you want to use PIP if you're recording on the PC. HDMI, component, every single connection from an STB to a display (or recorder) only supports one
video stream at a time.
Again, recording content is not new. Converting VHS tape to digital would simply be one simple step. Some boxes can/could convert VHS directly to CD.
The content industry has been fighting recording since 1984. What's changed since then is technology has evolved to allow only "certified" devices access to the signal.
You have to be kidding if you are expecting users to be content to watch only Clear Channel QAM signals.
Again, OCUR is falling flat on its face especially with incompetent ATI leading the OCUR way,
It's got noting to do with ATIs competance. All the problems with OCUR, and CableCards in general can be traced back to CableLabs and the cable and content industries.
...and YCrCb seems to be the only other solution.
It is the only solution we have any control over, on the PC end of things.
I am told that there is also audio/video on the 1394 connector from the STB, but have seen no universal software available to harvest that content.
Because probably 90% of the time, it's copy protected. Again, content owners don't want us recording on PCs
Many people care about a reliable method to control the STB
IR is reliable, I've not had a single IR related problem in the 3 years I've been tuning STBs with IR from my PC.
...and Closed Captions,
Those who care about CC are a (by my estimation) rather small portion of the overall PC TV recording market, and amongst that small segment, you're the only one I've seen looking for the external window functionality. And even then PC TV recording is a niche of a niche of a niche.
...but these are not the sorts of issues you will see real users of these products talk about on an industry Echo Chamber like this forum.
You're complaining because we're trying to explain reality to you?
Most people on forums like this go home to a real television and forget all about the stuff they discuss here after hours.
On the contrary, I bet most of the people on this (sub) forum use a PC as their primary TV device. I know I do. My Dish IRD is in the basement with no direct connection to a display. It's only connected to my Hauppauge HD PVR. My TV isn't connected to an antenna, 100% of my TV goes through my PC. I know I'm not alone.
I have already mentioned big reasons why Closed Captions are important.
Important to you yes, but I'm just pointing out my observation that yours is the first post I've seen here asking for the external window type functionality. Everyone else I've seen who cares about CC wants it displayed over their video, like it's supposed to be.
People do not use Closed Captions because they obscure the TV window picture, normally, and cannot be scrolled back (an hour or more), normally.
Most people who use CC actually need them.
Much of these issues is governed by laws and Congressional pressure.
That is a true statement.
Right now, it is trivial to watch NTSC content on a PC.
It is also trivial to watch ATSC content on a PC.
However, 15 years ago it was very difficult to find an NTSC signal which was not scrambled, requiring usage of the STB (formerly known as Descrambler) to see anything.
I assume you're talking about analog cable. Analog cable is no longer scrambled because they moved all the premium networks to encrypted, digital channels
This prevented VCRs from operating, amongst other problems.
Congressional pressure and maybe clauses in the Communications Act, I forget which, forced the cable companies to free up these NTSC signals.
Now, every single NTSC signal in my cable is descrambled and in-the-clear.
Yes, because all the scrambled channels have been converted to encrypted digital channels. Of the 300 or so channels I get via Dish Network, I think about 5 are unencrypted. The same is true of Cable. The only channels that "can't" be encrypted are the most basic channels, ie the local stations.
The whole cable industry is in the process of switching over to entirely digital transmission, some places have already done it. And when they do, expect most everything to be encrypted, and require a CableCard to view.
However, it takes people focusing on some of these problems on forums like this and taking the problem to Washington, DC, for the public will to be carried out.
Washington doesn't care about people being able to record on their PCs, PCs are the enemy. Hollywood's lobbyists have convinced Washington that the ability to freely record/copy digital works is a bad thing. I suggest you read up on the DMCA.
I'm not saying I like any of this, but there's really nothing I can do about it.