Theories on the pervasive BD playback failures?? - Page 6

Do you have any figures to support the idea that more people buy PS3's as Blu-Ray players than buy all the standalones combined? Because I don't think that's even close to being true. It's one thing to own a video game machine because you want to play games and oh, by the way you can watch movies. But I don't know a single soul who is not a video game player who has bought a PS3 just to watch movies instead of buying a $300-ish standalone player.

Don't confuse people who post on Internet forums with the consumer electronics market as a whole. Target don't have shelves of Blu-Ray players just for the heck of it.

I watched Sleeping Beauty on my BD30 and it loaded quickly with no attempt to connect to the internet to download extras which extends load time.

And..... where is your data that back up your claims that the VAST majority of people buy PS3's for blu-ray players?

Actually if and when Blu-ray goes mainstream I think this will be one of the driving forces. The interactivity the players offer will be a lot more noticeable than the improved image/sound on smaller sets. Regarding the 90% (of potential market base) since even 100% of current owners haven't seen what they will implement it sounds rather silly to me.

Again Blu-ray players were designed to not just offer better video and audio than DVD players. Rather it's a platform to deliver interactive media. One that's still a long ways away but they have to walk before they can run.

I hear you.

It was inconvenient to press (2) buttons on my BT remote and select the "no" response for the Internet download prompt before watching the movie.


I will attest to that. The only gaming done on my PS3 is by my 10-year-old nephew.

+1 on all three points. The BDA didn't have much choice but to push it out when it did. They were in a classic "Damned if you do and Damned if you don't" situation. What we've been seeing lately are the repercussions of "damned if you do".


I don't know that is the sole reason people buy a PS3, but it's hard to refute the fact that there are more PS3s out there than any other Blu-Ray player.

One thing's for sure, continuous stories about playback issues on are not going to encourage wider adoption. It doesn't matter if the issue is isolated to a handful of players on old firmware, because that part of the story doesn't get out, only that there was a problem.

BluFocus needs to get a move on.

CEs can always pick some low hanging fruit -- customers who buy by brand name. Dealers also want to be able to sell a set of products to a customer, and that's always easier if a given brand offers a complete set of products.

You've also got to remember that the main reason for CE excitement with Blu-Ray is not the player sales, and not even the discs sales (only some CE's are also studios). It's the chance to entice customers to replace OTHER products -- receivers and displays primarily. Blu-Ray is a driver for early replacement of those product lines. Anything that gets people to re-buy something they've ALREADY bought sooner -- or become first time buyers sooner than they otherwise would, gets the manufacturers all tingly with anticipation.
--Bob

Ooh, Ooh, Ooh! *raises hand way up* Pick me! Pick me!

I did.
--Bob

From Engadget:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/04/22...se-until-2013/


--Bob

From DVDFILE.COM:

http://www.dvdfile.com/article/blu-r...s-report-12500


That 2009 estimate is, I believe, rate of unit sales going forward as opposed to catching up with the already sold installed base of PS3s.

--Bob

130 million units worldwide by 2012? How many billions of people are there in this world (6.7 billion)? I think HD downloads through a company like Blockbuster, or Netflix will be the norm by 2012.

bingo ! I absolutely agree with you on that.

That's probably a debate for another thread.

The key item to take away from those two cited threads is that, at the moment, the PS3 really is the player studios need to concentrate on if they want to sell discs this year (and next year for that matter).

In addition, the PS3 is a stable platform while the stand-alone players are still going through significant generation churn. For example, Pioneer's latest players are an all new platform -- which means more chances for new bugs. Higher degrees of "standardized" chip integration will eventually solve that, but it hasn't happened yet.

The combo of studios concentrating on the PS3 and the very newness of the platforms sold as standalone are probably the key factors in the lack of robustness out there right now.

And then there's my personal bugaboo, which is that DTS-HD MA has been a disaster for the Blu-Ray roll out -- diverting WAY too much engineering (and authoring) attention and yielding only trivial advantage.

Somewhat to my surprise, HDMI has not been as big a problem for Blu-Ray roll out as I thought it would be.
--Bob

I would love that too, except even by then which is really only 3 years away the infrastructure still isnt there to have quality HD downloads with better than 720p and DD 5.1 download withing a reasonable amount of time.

Your a PCM guy, do tell? I must not have been paying close enough attention? I still believe that PCM tracks are the way to go and when BD first came out the majority of the discs I bought had PCM and sound really good. While DTS MA and D Tru HD are good and lossless, blah blah I am more than content with and would even prefer PCM as a PS3 owner.

This ARTICAL makes the ASSUMPTION that all PS3 owners player blu-ray discs.

Where is the data to back up this ASSUMTION ?

What is the attach rate of PS3 vs SAL blu-ray players?

Lets get some scientific data to back up that the PS3 base is buying 85% of disc titles to substanciate the 85% player base.

I'll bet the vast majority of gamers (e.g. my 10-year-old nephew) already have gaming consoles (e.g. WII, PS2, he does, Xbox, he does not) and many individuals buying a PS3 are looking towards that platform for Blu-ray disc not more EA renditions of Madden NFL.

It's hard to justify spending $999 for a BDP-95FD that can't render 1080p24fps any better than a $399 80 GB PS3.

Does the PS3 have analog out yet? IR remote? Does it still crank out heat and look like a George Forman grill?
This PS3 cheer leading is getting tedious.
J

No, but I don't watch much SDTV on my PRO-150FD.
No, but my PS3 bundle included Sony's $20 Blu-ray remote. It works great: starts the movie, stops the movie, etc.
I have a 40 GB PS3, which generates no more heat than any other A/V component in my rack. I'm more concerned about the heat being generated by some of the newer AVRs (e.g. TX-NR906) but this doesn't seem to stop anyone from buying those devices either.

You can nitpick yourself out of any purchase, but unless you have a PS3 you're really missing out.

Jeff, I agree with many of the points you made on the first post.
FWIW I do believe that this whole DTS MA "issue" could have been avoided, but that is water under the bridge..... and here we are, still waiting for this FW up-date on certain players....
As for the Samsung comment, well you may be correct that the company may not be the illustriuos, high end manufacture, but my BDP 1400, (temporary player- a gift from my electronics Dealer/friend) has yet to produce a dropped frame, audio glitch, freeze up or anything else.
Can you say that about the new Pioneers (which I do want the BD 51),Dennons of this world?

Paul

This is precisely why I posted the second article in the very next post showing the survey results that 87% of PS3 owners play Blu-Ray on their PS3.

It took all of 5 minutes on Google to find these two reports. There's lots of this stuff out there. Check it out.

I think the belief that the PS3 is the dominant platform for Blu-Ray playback at the moment is pretty sound. The only serious disagreement is how much longer that will last.

-------------------------------------

And to the folks frustrated that the PS3 is once again being touted in this thread: You don't have to LIKE the PS3 to recognize that it is, nevertheless, the dominant platform at the moment. The studios act on that. And that's a major factor in why there are so few playback problems with new discs on the PS3 (presuming you are running the current firmware).
--Bob

I think he may have meant analog audio? I shared a PS3 that my roommate owned early on when HD-DVD was still around. It's a great machine, no denying. It's not as good for me as the S550 I just bought. If Sony didn't get this player right after pioneering the medium, I'll never buy Sony again including a PS3! That being said, I think the format is as temporary as DVD if not more so. I agree with a previous poster in that the future is HD VOD.

not near as much as these "issues" which are not really issues for most of us and for those that they are issues they could be worked around and tolerated and accepted.

bringing up these issues is getting tedious: it is a red herring in my opinion


disagree: DVD has been around a long, long time and HD VOD still has a long way to go to be considered mainstream: BD audio and picture quality will trump any VOD for many years

I would not characterize the playback issues as pervasive: look for some new players to come to market soon that have most of these issues resolved

a voice of reason!

If by "soon" you mean a year or so ago I agree. A now under-$300 BD30 with up-to-date firmware plays darned near everything perfectly. And if one of the studios release a disc next week that has issues, there will soon enough be a firmware released that will make the BD30 play that perfectly, too.

No matter how many people you can find on the Internet shouting that ALL BLU-RAY PLAYERS HAVE ISSUES, it doesn't make it true.

Ah, the 'mighty' PS3 is surpassed only by the BDP-S550.

The BDP-S550 is on my radar, but I won't buy a dedicated player until after I get a new AVR (e.g. TX-NR906) & speakers (e.g. ?); therefore, reality dictates I will use the PS3 to watch movies on Blu-ray disc for a very long time.

Eleven years is not a "long, long time" in the history of home entertainment media formats. Indeed, even DVD's predecessor format is still in widespread use. huge numbers of consumers are still on their first DVD player.

Eventually the market will begin to reject any format that requires them to buy new equipment, if the cycle of replacement continues to get shorter. They will feel that they're being exploited.

The attraction of HD VOD using the equipment they already have from their primary video provider can't be underestimated. HD via cable or satellite, coupled with their existing DVD players, will satisfy the vast majority of average people, IMO. There's a lot of no-extra-charge stuff, there's rental stuff they don't have to wait for or leave the house to get, and their regular DVDs mostly look pretty decent on their new 32" LCD TV.

It's certainly true that there are more consumers now who recognize and will pay for the benefits of packaged HD media, certainly more than there were during the equivalent era of Laserdisc vs VHS. Those larger numbers will result in higher sales numbers for BD, enough to sustain the format. And those are largely consumers who will be comfortable enough with doing firmware updates, dealing with system configuration issues, and the other ancillary hassles of the new format.

But DVD attained dominance while it was clearly superiior in every way -- including price and convenience, which are the two most significant market drivers -- to the format it replaced.

BD will never be able to make that claim. It will never be cheaper or more convenient (let alone "and") than DVD or VOD. It simply isn't as compelling as the transition to DVD was.

Personally, as a veteran of the Laserdisc era, I'm entirely comfortable with a niche format that has the obvious high-end benefits and still relatively low cost of Blu-ray. But I am concerned that sales remain healthy enough that the continuance of the format isn't threatened. For this to happen, the platform has to be functionally mature.

I did.

I've had a PS3 for almost a year and it has not seen one game.... and never will.

But I do agree with you. (I'm most likely the minority). I actually bought it because it plays M2T files from hi def camcorders and I do a lot of shooting/editing. Of course I also bought because I did my research.... the players just aren't as advanced as they should be given the amount of time that Blu Ray has been out.

The truth of the matter is however that Blu Ray will not survive on the PS3 alone.

The PS3 is a machine that will sell to a specialized (and relatively small) crowd and NOT the average movie watcher who wants a normal stand alone player (which is most people).

Frankly I've always wondered why Sony hasn't taken the guts of the PS3, stuck it in a stand alone box with its own remote and called it a "player". It would be by far the best and most advanced "player" out there.

bland, here is your answer.

I have word from an insider close to the source that the playback failure of 007 For Your Eyes Only is due to an authoring error - a corrupt JAR file that some players can deal with and others cannot. Not due to BD+, lack of processing power, etc, but rather a problematic JAR file. FYI for all those involved.

If you have an issue with playback, I found this number to report disc issues that should help:
1-888-223-2FOX