Strange Question

Have you tried changing your LNB settings? With a new dish/switch/wiring... It's possible you might have to "upgrade" the settings. Maybe even try and "downgrade" it and see if that helps on some level.

Have you swapped cables with the non-UTV? (Bad Cable run?) Tested each cable run by itself, not in pairs? (A simple problem with one tuner/cable, could confuse the troubleshooting) Also, is the History Log giving you any odd messages? Does the Signal Strength meter say one/both tuners are flaky?

In the full Sat setup menu there is an "advanced" mode where you can test/find the signals on your Multi-Switch. I'd recommend you use this option while testing your cable runs... This should tell you if each tuner is getting the signals it should.

Let us know what you find.

I'd doubt this... but did the Tech leave the old Multi-Switch behind? I would try and "cascade" another switch off the main switch to "isolate" the feed(s) to both receivers.

If you can't do that I'd probably try verifying that each run goes from the Switch directly to the Tuner. If you have easy access to the Multi-Switch running a known "good" short cables directly to both units and try and repeat the issue.

The tips I suggested about your setup for the UTV... Did you check/verfy the settings on the non-UTV are OK?
Keep us posted.

It might also be a good idea to try and run "direct" lines from the LNB (or extend the lines going to the Multi-Switch) to the Receivers, bypassing the switch. That might give you some clues. Of coarse I'm not sure how these newer LNBs work so with my old dual LNB this might be easy to test/isolate the receivers... The Multi-Switch might be needed in your setup to get a good signal...

Keep us posted.

You would not have to replace the original run from the LNB... but if you can "extend" them with a coupler to bypass the multi-switch you could run some tests that way.

If you have three Multi-Switches already you should have "cascaded" them some how already. You have it right, about the layout. Connect the input of one to the output of another...

If you're somehow NOT cascaded already I suspect you might have splitter in the line which might be a problem.

Keep us posted.

Not a problem. What you are suggesting sounds like a good example of cascading the second multi-switch and feeding your receivers. If you should continue having problems you might try the other switch and/or swap which switch feeds the UTV.

But as mentioned your suggestion seems sound. Cascading the other multi-switch should "Isolate" the UTV and your non-UTV should hopefully feel it has the primary switch to itself. I'd still recommend using the "advanced" Multi-Switch test on the UTV to make sure the Switch is feeding all the Sats it should. Maybe test it before and after adding the non-UTV... If it drops off a signal that may be a clue.

Since the non-UTV seems a bit sensitive I'd recommend verifying that JUST adding the second multi-switch doesn't cause problems. If it does you can rule out the UTV at some level. If DirecTV will cover repairs you'll have a non-UTV related "problem" you can create on demand. They might find the glitch then and not blame the UTV.

Good luck. Keep us posted.

My 2 cents: Your multiswitch is unpowered, yes? If not, I'm hosed, but this sounds like a loading issue to me, which would only be compounded by cascading. Change the multiswitch to a powered model. If you're already using a powered multiswitch, please let us know here (this would completely stump me, but that's cool). As has been mentioned above, splitters = bad.

Depending on the specific setup I could see an "unpowered" Switch causing issues were a "powered" one wouldn't.

If the system setup Cedeveloperx has is "standard" (less then 100FT run) I wouldn't suspect this as a problem. In my setup I have an external power 3x8 multi-switch with a 3x4 "receiver/non-powered" switch cascaded off of that. I've also run an additional 3x4 "receiver/non-powered" switches off of that on occasion.

The powered vs "non-powered" question shouldn't be over looked but if the runs from the LNB to the switch and then to the receivers are fairly "short" (under 100 ft?) then a "non-powered" switch should be OK.

If Cedeveloperx can test the setup by running some "test" lines directly from the LNB to the Switch then to the receivers (Might require running some extension cords/TV/Receivers outside) you could rule out the LNB cable runs as being problems.

If I read the topic correctly the LNB cable runs weren't replaced recently when the Sat and Multi-Switch were replaced... so maybe a bad/loose contact could be an issue. Maybe checking that all the contacts at the LNB/Grounding Block/Multi-Switch are good wouldn't hurt regardless.

I seem to remember a post here where somebody had a Sat on the roof and they checked the contacts up there and they were completely degraded and after getting swapped out the setup was great... Of coarse a DirecTV tech should have seen if the cables were badly damaged...

This being the case, as lgodave mentioned, the runs do seem to be well within standard norms.

I agree also with lgodave that bad/loose connection, perhaps a corroded high-resistance connection, may be the culprit. The danger with this is that using a powered multiswitch may get the system running, but the problem isn't fixed and "compensating" for it could create additional problems.

I'm curious about the statement regarding the cable runs being "long and complicated". Care to elaborate?

Lastly, I just noticed you mentioned "one of the two runs" to the UTV - presumably a second run was added to accommodate the extra tuner. I wonder if this difference in wiring length (can you estimate it?) could cause some weird feedback due to both being powered from the same UTV power supply but presenting differing levels of resistance and capacitance (which admittedly should be miniscule).

This suggests that one of your LNB to Multi-Switch runs might be problematic.

If possible I'd swap the cables at the LNB so Cables "A" and "B" swap spots... OR swap cables at the Multi-Switch "A"/"B" if that is easier.

That might result in channel 771 being "good" and your locals and kid channels might be problematic. Ideally you want to rule out the cable runs AND the LNB. It's possible the LNB is faulty and can't acquire the signal from even/odd transponders correctly. In a perfect setup the Signal Strength Meter on the UTV will compare levels between both tuners and transponders. So if you can connect the UTV directly to the LNB (Bypass the Multi-Switch) and check the various transponders you might find some are weaker. If Tuner "A" is 90%, Tuner "B" is 70% on Transponder 5, for example, the cable run and/or LNB contact feeding tuner "B" is bad and should be checked out. If you swap the contacts at the LNB and Tuner "A" is 70% and "B" is 90% that suggests the LNB and/or cable run. If it "stays" on the same tuner I'd suspect the Cable Run is bad and the LNB is OK.

Sorry I had the impression the runs from the LNB to switch were left in place.

As for a bad LNB... while unlikely it could be bad.

To restate/simplify the issue. The non-UTV doesn't play nice if the UTV is online (either or both tuners? Correct?). UTV signal meter seems to suggest that the LNB and runs are OK.

If you bypass the Multi-Switch (using some standard cable couplers) and run a single line to the UTV and one to the non-UTV and the problem goes away (swap/check both feeds to make sure "A" or "B" side of the LNB isn't flaky) then you know it's switch related.

keep us posted....now I HAVE to know what the problem is...

Yes, I agree, plenty of people reading this would love to know.

The "bypass" direct to the LNB is the simplest "default" safe mode and should hopefully give you a "clean" signal for both the UTV and Non-UTV.

Worse case scenario (you'll love this with your difficult cable runs) you could run another Dish LNB to the UTV or Non-UTV. A neighbor up north had this done (added another receiver and the installer did it this way probably because it was easier/cheaper then trying to run another set of cables or a Multi-Switch into the new location). The nice thing with that is both are independent of each other. If heavy rain/trees/people are blocking one (it's near the ground) the other (on the roof) may have a clearer view. One bad setup the other can be used as a "backup". Great for us troubleshooters at least.

As others have mentioned if you have a desktop fan or maybe a USB fan you could try and rule out heat buildup as a concern.

An hour (or more) or so to "cool down" when making changes can also be helpful...

Hopefully the internal fan is still working and the vents are clean. If you decide to open the UTV for cleaning be sure to pull the access card FIRST!!

Keep us posted.

"Unplugged the connections and it came right back"

Have you been able to determine if you need to pull both connections or just one or the other on the UTV to get the signal back?

Have you swapped locations with the "Non-UTV" to see if cable connections from the wall to the receiver is bad? It's been a long time I've had issues with a "bad cable" but if you have a weak (RG-59 or damaged RG-6) cable in the setup I'd try swapping cables around to see if that changes anything. I've actually used "Non-RG6" cables on my UTV and DTivo without a problem but your "non-UTV" might have issues with that...

Heat Tip:

I've done this downstairs were I don't have a lot of space to work with. Instead of "stacking" the UTVs... I've got one standing on end. The power supply side (front left) is sitting on bottle caps and the internal fan side (front right) is facing up.

This does appear to effectively dissipate the heat without the use of additional fans.

Not everyone has the space to do something like this but it may be worth a try. It may look odd but you could even try tilting the UTV 30-45 degrees and remove the heat that way.

If you go with a fan... you might see past threads on this forum were I've mentioned my internal "PC Slot Blower Fan" modification. You take a PC Slot Blower Fan and flatten the "slot" plate and using twist ties or some machine screws you can attach it inside the back UTV vent above the tuners and power it off the Hard Drive...

Keeps it cool and doesn't cause any damage to the UTV's case, allowing you to return the UTV to "out of the box" condition with very little effort.

Wait - this seems to be a _new_ problem. As I understood it before, only the NON-UTV receiver was having the problem. The way I read the above quote, it is now the actual UTV that is searching for sat?

While the heating issue is something to address (I have a laptop cooler under my UTVs), the only thing I can see this doing to the signal is changing the tolerance and therefore the output voltage of the UTV jacks which I could see confusing the multiswitch somewhat, but this is not something that I can see confusing another receiver while the UTV continues to get clean signal.

With ENORMOUS respect to lgodave (he's been here a long time and has helped more than his fair share of folks), i still gotta believe that an upgraded, powerered, multiswitch is the answer here. HOWEVER, as I'm not the one paying for said multiswitch, I do agree you should try EVERYTHING else first.

Good Luck! When (if) you do fix the problem, please post the solution here.

--Eric

I'm more then willing to try a powered Multi-Switch. It can rule out some issues.

Everyone's experience will vary... As someone had mentioned a powered switch might "mask" the issue if the powered switch "fixes" the problem.

teehee...that sounds like somethng I'd say...oh, wait...