Please someone explain it to me like a fifth grader

Did you try reading the FAQ pinned at the top? Good info there....

eyerockz,

will you use a lens or zoom? If your going to use a lens, will you scale with the projector or use a HTPC or external scaler?

Generally, a 2.37:1 screen is what you want, but pending the above, you may need a woder screen...

Mark

Well lets do this step by step.

Step 1 identify you can do Vertical Stretch.

So I would ask that you load a film that is 2.35 or 2.40 so you can see the black bars, then toggle through the Aspect choices (Australian models use Aspect button on the remote, not sure about US and other countries) and find the mode that makes the image look tall and thin and removes the black bars. It should be Zoom1. If you can get this to work with all your sources - both DVD and HD material, this is the mode you want/need to do the Vertical Stretch or scaling part of the CIH process.

Click on the CIH Explained link in my signature as well for images of what you should be seeing...

Mark

Good that you have identified that...


Now I am thinking by this comment that you have a 16:9 screen...


Well you could "zoom" but you not only throw away pixels (shooting the black bars off the top and bottom of the screen) but you also increase the size of the pixels in both directions (vertically and horizontally). The anamorphic lens does magnify the pixels in the horizontal direction, but allowa you to use the full vertical rez of the projector, so your images are very much denser than they would be zooming. This is of course up for much debate and you will see examples of this in many of the treads here...

Mark

No, you don't have to, you could use the "poor man's" CIH solution, which just uses the zoom function of the projector and some kind of lens shift to move the picture vertically. You can try this out easily, just display a cinemascope movie with black bars on the top and bottom. Then zoom the picture larger until the sides are ~140" wide (based on your posted screen height of 59". Now use the lens shift to move the picture part of the movie up so the top is even with the top of your screen. Depending on the zoom range and installation location of your projector, you may not be able to do this as you'd need a 1.33 zoom range. The downside of this is having to go through this process every time you want to change aspect ratios, this is why the new Panny PT-AE3000 added the ability to save the zoom/shift locations to make changing back and forth more convenient.

The other method uses the vertical stretch and a lens. It's hard to explain much of this with words, pictures are much better. CAVX's link has some good ones.

That is because your projecting onto a 16:9 screen. To projector Scope, you are going to need a Scope screen...

Mark

You must have a 16:9 screen.

If you have a 2.35:1 screen, you project a 16:9 image so that it sits in the middle of the screen, filling the screen from top to bottom. You will have black bars on the sides of the screen, but these can be easily masked.

Then, when you watch a 2.35:1 image, you will then see black bars on the top and bottom, as well as on the sides. You then zoom the picture out until the top and bottom bars disappear.

EDIT: OR...using the vertical scalar and lens method, you project the 16:9 image normally, and when you watch a 2.35:1 presentation, you engage the scalar so that the image stretches to fill the screen from top to bottom, and you then place the lens in front of the projector, which will stretch THAT image out to fill the sceen from left to right.

If you have a 16:9 screen, do what I did...at least to try it out.

I have a 116" x 65" 16.9 Da-Lite High Power screen. I masked off the top of the screen with black velvet, giving me a 116" x 49" scope screen. I then set up my projector so that a 16:9 image would fit in the middle of the screen, with the omage completely filling the screen from top to bottom with no overscan. When I want to watch a 2.35:1 movie, I zoom the image out so that it fills the entire screen.

It does take a little messing around at first to get it setup correctly, if you're going to do the zoom method.. I'm using a Sanyo Z4 that has excellent lens shift capabilities, and I have it on a shelf behind me. You have to make sure that the height of the projector is pretty square to the screen, otherwise, you have to adjust the lens shift a bit whenever you zoom in or out.

With my setup, I don't have to adjust the lens shift at all, and the image zooms in and out perfectly for any aspect ratio. I just added some black velvet curtains to mask off the black bars on the sides, attached some velcro to the bottom edge of my screen and to the edge of each curtain so that I could get a perfectly straight edge when I pulled them into place.

Just to see how it looks, you should try just masking off the top for now and see how you like it. I'd love to have an anamorphic lens, but I just can't justify spending over 600 bucs on one right now. I'd much rather save and upgrade to a 1080p projector. Meanwhile, this zoom method has served me well, and it looks great to me, even with my lowly 720p projector.

Lens type pending of course - I say yes, but you find others on this forum that say no...

Mark

I'll be going with the RS20 and am on the fence of whether to go scope or not. If I indeed go scope, costs will hike up considerably since I'd have to go AT screen and I'm also guessing a lens.

My initial plan was to go Stewart ST 110". My room is only 13' 7" wide. Is there a particular screen and lens you would recommend given my projector choice and room set-up? Any instant replies appreciated as I am supposed to be ordering my equipment tomorrow. Nothing like last minute changes. Thanks!

Just how much do you want to spend?

Mark

Building my first HT I want to do it right but not break the bank. My HT guy is not recommending that I go scope given my set-up. I'm guessing it will cost somewhere around an additional $5k. Is that about right?

Lens pending, yes it could. Why is he not recommending CinemaScope?

Mark

He mentioned that he would be concerned that I would actually be losing some screen height given my width challenged room. Plus, I have a proscenium design. However, I can easily ditch that at this point in time. I was thinking probably about 1.5k for AT and 3.5k for the lens. Am I missing anything else? Is there a particular lens (i.e. Panamorph, Prismasonic, etc.) that you would recommend to match the RS20. Unfortunately the all-in-one Runco is out of my league.

I'm not as familiar with scope screens. What size would I be able to fit in my room? First row at 12', which is also where the throw will be.

How deep, wide and high is your room? I have made a really cool calculator in EXCEL that needs your room proportions and then gives you all the answers you need...

I'd probably go the Panamorph with your budget...

Mark

My room was originally 14x23 but then with the DD+GG and furring strips my width got cut down to about 165". How deep depends on perspective. I'm assuming you mean from the front screen wall. I've got a false wall that is 18" deep from the front drywall. So from my false wall to the back wall I've got 252". Room height is only 89".

Is that all I will need-the AT wide screen and the lens? I know maybe some DIY masking for 1.8 movies and such but not a concern for me right now as nearly 95% of my BDs are 2.4.

Ok so if your room (workable space) is 252" deep or 6401mm, your Max Screen size is 3793mm (149") x 1600mm (63") whch is quite large and might be pushing the limits of the lumens.

Your room width is 165" so even the largest screen will fit.

If you feel the need to reduce the screen size, just don't go any smaller than 3034mm (119") x 1280mm (50").

Your closest seating distance is 2x the image height with 3x being preffered regardless of screen size.

Hope that helps...


Have you considered how your speakers will mount behind the AT screen?

Mark

Wow, that's wide. I'm reluctant to go the max. If it were your room which size screen would you choose?

I just assumed some kind of shelf mounting attached to the false wall to hold the LCRs. Does that not work? Originally center was going to sit just under the bottom of the screen while L and R hidden behind proscenium. LCR dimensions are 10 3/4"Wx29"Hx11 1/16"D. Going to be a lot going on back there as my two subs will likely go there as well.

If I had such a room, I would (projector throw and lumens pending of course) max out the screen. I'd like my next screen to be at least 1500mm high. I know that my BenQ can do this with ease in a fully light controlled room...


It can, but just remember that even though the fabic is AT, high freqencies do still bounce off the inner surface. I went so far to baffle my speakers in and fully treat the face of the baffle. Some might choose to disagree with that method, but it used in both comercial cinema applications as well as HT...


I'd place the subs under the screen, but keep the LCRs at seated ear height (you may have to find a happy medium if a riser is used for the back row) behind the screen. The trick is also (and again this will cause some bebate) keep the L and R speakers at or just inside the 1.78:1 ratio so that your sound stage works with all ARs and not just Scope.

Have a look at the link in my signature My Curved AT Scope Screen for ideas...

Mark

Just thinking out loud here. In order to keep costs down could I go scope but still go with a non-AT screen and place center just below screen and L and R on the sides?

Ok, just found out that's not an option so I'll just go AT. Here's my dilemna. My throw is only 12 or 13' so my HT guy is recommending 45x106. He said the Panamorph lens is not going to work well if I go bigger and obviously the 45x106 is smaller than the 50x119 you mentioned earlier not to go smaller than. HELP?

New Update: contemplating cutting into the drywall ceiling and relocating the projector to above the second row to facilitate a longer throw and bigger screen. Thanks.