Originally Posted by Digital2004
LCD and Panasonic in particular seem to have made huge step ahead in terms of the ansi contrast which i find more important for that pop/3D effect that the race towards higher and higher contrast, especially once you're in CH set up.
The more time I spend with projectors, reading, learning, the more I question if ANSI is really the cause of "pop/3D effect". While it's true that high-ANSI projectors have the "pop/3D effect" that does not necessarilly mean that pop/3D effect is caused by high ANSI.
The main reason for my doubt is that the data just does not seem to bear that out. Considering the luminance of most real-world content, it mostly falls right around the crossover point between where ANSI and On/Off (Native) performance dominate.
So if we eliminate ANSI, what's left? Well, I'm beginning to think maybe a higher MTF, the way DLP generates and image? I'm not sure. It will be very interesting to see say the BenQ W5000 compared to the AE3000, since the AE3000 should really clobber the W5000 in CR, to see if the W5000 still retains the "pop" crown.
I think if the W5000 or another DLP with similar ANSI and Native to the AE3000 still wins the "pop" contest, we'll have to re-evaluate what causes said "pop".
DLP has to worry though. how many affordable brands still do DLP ???
Infocus ? sharp gone, yam gone, marantz gone or almost
SIM2 now has to propose sub $5K machines too.
Yeah, I agree, right now, DLP's only real advantage is the nebulous "pop" it has a reputation for.
DLP remains king of ANSI contrast though. and if optics follow remain the sharper of course (1CHIP).
If PC's ANSI measurements are representative of the AE3000, that may not be the case anymore.
Originally Posted by krinkle
Hey, I know AVSforum has a financial interest (and conflict of interest) in selling everyone the RS20.
I don't think I've seen an AV Science rep in this thread pushing the RS20. The only ones "pushing" it are enthusiastic forum members.
I think what you're really running into is the clash of the forums. You've got the AE3000 which is descended from "<$3000 MSRP" lineage, and with "<$3000 MSRP" following, and the RS20 which is descended from ">$3000 MSRP" lineage with it's respective following.
It's really kind of interesting when you look at it. The AE3000 is a much improved version of the AE2000, with a $500 [b]increase[/i] in MSRP, pushing it into the "High-end" forum. Contrast that with the RS20 which is a much improved version of the RS2 with a $500 [b]decrease[/i] in MSRP, and an MSRP that pushes it right smack in the middle of the "grey area" of people who's search covers the high end of the "<$3k" to low end of the "High-end" forum.
Basically we've got two groups of people meeting for the first time in many senses. Those who have hung out in the "High End" forum who have been awed by the RS line and who are thrilled with the RS20's performance and surprisingly low street price.
And then there's the people who have been hanging out in the "<$3000 MSRP" forum following the AExxx line and it's awesome "bang for the buck" factor, who are absolutely thrilled with the performance and feature improvements of the AE3000, but are experiencing a sort of "culture shock" of "their" projector falling into a community that's happy to pay more for more performance and brushes the AE3000 off as a lightweight.
Please, please, please, don't take those paragraphs the wrong way. I'm not being elitist or anything, the AE3000 and RS20 are both terrific machines, but I firmly believe that they are for different markets, and not direct competitors. I think they appeal to different groups of people, with different priorities.
I also think, after spending my time in both forums that the two forums definitely have different mindsets, the "<$3000 MSRP" forum seems to be far more price sensitive than the "High End" forum.
My own experience bears that out. I started with a "<$3000 MSRP" projector when I was more price constrained than I am now. Owning my 3rd projector now, and like most here, always looking for my "next" projector, I find myself now looking more at performance, and then looking at price only to find out it it's an option.
When I bought my first projector I balked at the cost of the "High end" machines, like the BenQ 8700. Today, two projectors later I seriously considered the RS20 (which is about the same price as the 8700 was back then, only about 10x better
The difference is I've learned better what I like and don't. I know what I want to see, and what annoys me. And knowing how much enjoyment I get out of my projector, I'm now willing to pay more to get more. I still can't see the value proposition in a Sim2 HT5000, but maybe with some luck in a few years I will.
So I won't post on the subject here again.
Best of luck to all of you.
So I see where you're coming from, I understand the value proposition of the AE3000. I see the logic, that the specs on paper the AE3000 looks "really close" to the RS20. I've made the same decisions you're faced with and the same sort of comparisons. Heck I bought the W5000 because it's "almost" as good as the W20000, but half the price.
The difference is I don't go into W20000 threads and try to convince everyone my W5000 is better, or that the W20000 or Sim2 HT5000 are overpriced.
Originally Posted by darinp2
At least if you are going to go away, understand what ANSI CR measures.
As I'm sure I've explained multiple times, there are billions of intra-image CRs and the ANSI CR test helps give us some information about them, but it is a long ways from the average movie scene.
While not rigorously correct, I like to think of ANSI and Native contrast as the "bookends" of performance. They are (respectively) worst and best case scenarios for contrast. Pretty much all real-world content will fall somewhere on a curve connecting ANSI and Native contrast.
In practice ANSI gives you an idea of the "least" CR you'll have with really bright scenes, while Native (Static) gives you and idea of the maximum possible CR the projector can produce in a single frame.
And then of course On/Off can give you an idea of the relative black level capability of the projector.
All three are really needed to see the complete picture of the projector's performance, and none are really useful without the others.
Sounds like about what you'd expect based on their respective lineage and the measurements from Cine4Home.