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Question: 1080UB or AE3000U

post #1 of 62
Thread Starter 
I was fully intending on purchasing the Epson 1080ub but my supplier can't get anymore since the 6500ub is coming out in December. My basement is currently being finished and I will be ready for the projector in about 2-3 weeks. I particularly don't want to wait until December to get the 6500ub.

I ended up doing a lot of research and found out the Panasonic's AE3000 is already on the market. There are definitely some nice features on the panny that appear good on paper.

My question is, would the AE3000 be a better buy than the 1080ub.
(the UB will also be $800 cheaper for me and will also have an additional bulb)

I have a room that I can control ambient light, a Da-lite 119" tab tensioned 16:9 screen w/ a 14' throw and will be sourced from a Denon 4308 w/ a Sony PS3 (with intentions on getting a stand alone player sometime in the future.)

Some of the differences I have found:

1. Panny's HDMI is 1.3 w/ deep color: I thought deep color is 1.3a? I have 1.3a cables and a sony PS3 that supports 1.3a, if it's not will I lose anything?
2. The biggest sell point for me is the Panny has the 120hz drive processor.
3. I wont use the lens memory so that doesnt matter to me. (unless 2.35:1 can be used on a 16:9 somehow.)
4. The panny does not appear to have a trigger port, which is disappointing. Is there another way around this?
5. There aseems to be a bump on the contrast in comparison to the 1080ub.
6. The Panny has keystone correction, is that useful?

Your opinions mean a lot to me. I've been doing a LOT of reading and I am currently leaning towards the Panny. What do you think?
thanks!
j
post #2 of 62
The Panasonic is a better projector than the 1080UB. Simply put. Hard to say how the 6500 will compare, but you didn't ask that.
post #3 of 62
I too am tormented by the AE3000 / 6500UB question. Our RPTV died and we haven't seen a movie in month! If Epson would just release the price I might be able to decide on the 3000 before the 6500 was released. Perhaps they are waiting to see where the Yen is going?
post #4 of 62
Epson is always a few months behind the pack but usually creates better products. I would guess that Epson will charge a few hundred more for the 6500 but less than $3k. They would murder their sales if they top 3k for it.

However, at the same time, I doubt that the 6500 will be much better than the 3000U. Reviewers are just gushing about that projector.

So if you want a projector now, go ahead and get the 3000U. If you don't need one now, just wait a few months for all the reviews to come in and for the 6500 to be released.

And in no way would I ever pick the 1080UB over the 3000U. It's even more expensive but not nearly as good as a projector.
post #5 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWBoy View Post

Epson is always a few months behind the pack but usually creates better products. I would guess that Epson will charge a few hundred more for the 6500 but less than $3k. They would murder their sales if they top 3k for it.

However, at the same time, I doubt that the 6500 will be much better than the 3000U. Reviewers are just gushing about that projector.

So if you want a projector now, go ahead and get the 3000U. If you don't need one now, just wait a few months for all the reviews to come in and for the 6500 to be released.

And in no way would I ever pick the 1080UB over the 3000U. It's even more expensive but not nearly as good as a projector.

The Epson can be found for under $2K used, is slightly sharper and is brighter in dynamic mode for sports (although not in best mode)...the Panny has many more strengths but for the right price used, the Epson still has some appeal.
post #6 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongalt26 View Post

I was fully intending on purchasing the Epson 1080ub but my supplier can't get anymore since the 6500ub is coming out in December.

My question is, would the AE3000 be a better buy than the 1080ub.
(the UB will also be $800 cheaper for me and will also have an additional bulb)

I'm confused. First you state the 1080UB isn't available to you, then state that it costs 800.00 less than the AE3000, not including the bulb?

Who is selling the UB for 1700.00 plus a free bulb?

Art
post #7 of 62
Thread Starter 
Jason - Thanks for the feedback!

Bachus - The epson has typically had better reviews but has also been a couple hundred $ more expensive. My supplier is anticipating the cost of the new epson to be between $2,700 and $2,800. I guess you'll need to decide if it's worth the extra $ and the wait for the epson. Knowing my luck, since I dont want to wait for the epson it will probably be released before black friday lol.

Adpayne - My supplier is local to me so I had to pay tax on the projector. That took the price from $2,700 to $2,862.00. My supplier cant get the pj from the distributor so my supplier suggested another site to get the pj from. The epson on that site was reduced to $2,149 (no tax) plus an additional $300 off for the MIR ($1,849) and the additional bulb (which is included with the MIR).
Since i'll be getting the panny from my local supplier I will have to pay tax.
The difference between the total cost of the new panny w/ tax versus the old epson ends up being about $800.
If I went with another supplier I could save a couple hundred, but I like having the ability to drive to the suppliers warehouse. (It's a webstore that doesnt have a showroom)

I just can't tell my wife about the price difference. Since the price of the new panny is a couple hundred less than what I paid for the old epson, she's happy anyways lol.

Thanks a lot for your feedback and for those who have voted!!!
I'll be getting the panny.
J
post #8 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongalt26 View Post

1. Panny's HDMI is 1.3 w/ deep color: I thought deep color is 1.3a? I have 1.3a cables and a sony PS3 that supports 1.3a, if it's not will I lose anything?
2. The biggest sell point for me is the Panny has the 120hz drive processor.
3. I wont use the lens memory so that doesnt matter to me. (unless 2.35:1 can be used on a 16:9 somehow.)
4. The panny does not appear to have a trigger port, which is disappointing. Is there another way around this?
5. There aseems to be a bump on the contrast in comparison to the 1080ub.
6. The Panny has keystone correction, is that useful?
j

I pulled the trigger on the 3000 as I was in the process of ordering a 1080UB..

1: Deep color - is anything even out in deep color yet? it'll be ncie to have in the future though.
2: no comment.
3: I'll be using the lens memory to shift a 2:35 image lower on the 16:9 screen - not necessary, but nice to be able to do.
4: I'm triggering the screen with my URC remote - any macro that calls for the PJ to be on gets the screen lowered.
5: From what I've read, it's quite a big bump.
6: Depends on your installation, but I think lens shift will take care of 95% of the installs..
post #9 of 62
Thread Starter 
Thanks Eskimo
1. Heck if I know, I was just trying to "future proof" myself as well.
3. Thats cool, i didnt know that could be done on a 16:9, i'll have to try it out.
4. How are you doing that? does your screen have an IR / RF receiver? I just ordered mine with the low voltage trigger expecting to tie it into the PJ. Since the Panny doesnt have that I was thinking of tying it into my receiver but really dont want to do that. (My equipment is in a closet behind the screen)
5. cool
6. cool
post #10 of 62
3: I wasn't going to use the lens feature either (The 1080UB didn't have it, it wasn't a big deal), but since the 3000 has it, I might as well use it for something!

4: My screen does indeed have an IR receiver (Elite CineTension), so I'm running a long extension to the IR emitter and putting it there. (Similar to the long IR emitter wire I'm running to the PJ as well - I'm not messing with RS232 codes)

If I was in your shoes, I would run your screen trigger to the AVR as you mentioned.. I would think that would be easier than running the trigger wire all the way from the PJ to the screen anyway? With the amount of on-screen display going on (especially like us where we can't see the equipment), you basically need the PJ & screen any time the equipment is on anyway!
post #11 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo1 View Post

I pulled the trigger on the 3000 as I was in the process of ordering a 1080UB..

3: I'll be using the lens memory to shift a 2:35 image lower on the 16:9 screen - not necessary, but nice to be able to do.

nice! this is exactly what I want to do too. Right now with my ae900 its impossible because the lens shift knobby is so horrible to use.
I might be upgrading to the 3000 this winter myself!
post #12 of 62
Thread Starter 
I have a CatV cable run from the PJ to the screen however I don't think the PJ has a trigger port. If not, I will run it o the AVR, but would much prefer the Pj.
I also have my supplier looking into getting me an IR port for the screen as well.

And yea I might as well try the lens feature, i just dont want to add masking to my screen.
post #13 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo1 View Post

2: no comment.

Uh... Why not?

And thanks for the advice on the 3000 -- I've got some a little more work to do on the media room -- hopefully that will keep my mind occupied for a little while longer LOL
post #14 of 62
As a gamer I wouldn't touch a Panasonic projector with a ten-foot pole until they fix their lag issue.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1068844
Quote:


Updating the first post with my thoughts, but quickly here:

* I thought it was surprising that the Epson (1080) seemed as good in normal mode as the Panasonic performed in game mode.
* The two Panasonics clearly had the most image lag of the four projectors I've tested so far. (AE200, AE2000, TW2000 and Sanyo Z3)

They have to cut video processing with their so called "game mode" just to compete with other projectors to minimize lag.
post #15 of 62
Thread Starter 
I just ordered the panny, hopefully the lag was addressed.
I do my gaming on my PC w/ 42" panel. I got the PS3 for the blue ray and the ability to play the occasional social game (Golf, Soul Caliber etc) so i'm not too concerned about the lag, but it would be nice if it didn't exist.
But then again it would be really nice to play COD4 / 5 on the large screen lol
post #16 of 62
Supposedly, the 3000 has a mode that minimizes the lag. The reviews I've read said that it worked really well.

I'll find out on Friday...
post #17 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by philba View Post

Supposedly, the 3000 has a mode that minimizes the lag. The reviews I've read said that it worked really well.

Did you read the review on Projector Central?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/pana...tor_review.htm

The AE3000 cuts back on video processing to minimize lag, If you know anything about video processing you would know this means picture quality takes a hit to speed up lag. This has been done in early DLP HDTV displays.

Strictly speaking to gamers.

Why would a gamer want a projector that takes a hit on picture quality to hide lag, when you have another projector such as 1080UB that does not need such gimmicks as test shows?
post #18 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce banner View Post

Did you read the review on Projector Central?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/pana...tor_review.htm

The AE3000 cuts back on video processing to minimize lag, If you know anything about video processing you would know this means picture quality takes a hit to speed up lag. This has been done in early DLP HDTV displays.

Strictly speaking to gamers.

Why would a gamer want a projector that takes a hit on picture quality to hide lag, when you have another projector such as 1080UB that does not need such gimmicks?

Because maybe the other projector never had that processing to begin with, so it isn't a gimmick to allow the lower amount of processing, which doesn't force people to the higher amount of processing. What makes you think that the AE3000 gamer mode isn't basically like the 1080UB regular mode as far as how much processing it does, but the AE3000 has the extra feature of allowing more processing (which your position seems to be that this means higher picture quality).

--Darin
post #19 of 62
Thread Starter 
The frame response looks cool. Personally I want the best picture possible 99% of the time, but having that as an option is a nice feature.
As far as gaming though, real gamers don't use PJ's or Consoles! haha
post #20 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Because maybe the other projector never had that processing to begin with, so it isn't a gimmick to allow the lower amount of processing, which doesn't force people to the higher amount of processing. What makes you think that the AE3000 gamer mode isn't basically like the 1080UB regular mode as far as how much processing it does, but the AE3000 has the extra feature of allowing more processing (which your position seems to be that this means higher picture quality).

--Darin

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=#post14968308

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongalt26 View Post

Personally I want the best picture possible 99% of the time

And that's the reason I'm leaning to 1080UB. I feel the game mode may take away some picture quality to speed up video processing.
Quote:


As far as gaming though, real gamers don't use PJ's or Consoles! haha

hUH? ha haha
post #21 of 62
Thread Starter 
Personally I like the idea of having the fast fram response, plus it can be turned off.

"There is no way for a video picture to appear instantaneously with zero delay on any digital video display, so the Fast frame delivery feature on the AE3000 is about as good as it gets. Put the AE3000 into Fast frame response mode, select Dynamic calibration with a few color tweaks, and you end up with a magnificent high resolution gaming system. "
post #22 of 62
Anyone crawfishing on their poll choice after the side by side comparison on www.projectorreviews.com today? Subjective side-by-side comparisons showed the Epson besting the Panny on black level, contrast, Sharpness and brightness...what else is there? I don't own either but I'm thinking about pickup up a used 1080UB since everyone's already "traded up" to a new Panny (and the rest will trade for a 6500/7500 UB). Again, its a great time to be in the position of looking for a HT pj.
post #23 of 62
Panny still hasn't added the trigger port? hmmmm I'd still go with the AE3000 though
post #24 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

Anyone crawfishing on their poll choice after the side by side comparison on www.projectorreviews.com today? Subjective side-by-side comparisons showed the Epson besting the Panny on black level, contrast, Sharpness and brightness...what else is there? I don't own either but I'm thinking about pickup up a used 1080UB since everyone's already "traded up" to a new Panny (and the rest will trade for a 6500/7500 UB). Again, its a great time to be in the position of looking for a HT pj.

Thats very interestng, I've been waiting for this review, maybe the UB is still a great buy. I'm surprised that the panny isn't much better with contrast as the ANSI was measured higher for it compared to the UB. I beleive the UB was 250 and the Panny was 450? With that big of a difference I'd expect the panny to be much better, but I guess its all in the combination of parts rather than a few seperate specs.

On a side note has there been any reviews or any of you have any opinions on the scaler of these pjs? I watch alot of SD tv and Sd movies on my HD DVD A30, so obviously I want the pj that will give me the best possible picture with crappy SD resolution that I watch. I suppose there isn't going to be a whole big difference between either unit, but some opinions would still be nice
post #25 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by d james View Post

Thats very interestng, I've been waiting for this review, maybe the UB is still a great buy.

I don't think so--not for me. I wan't frame interpolation! Remember, the same people who are telling you it is a gimmick were the ones telling you the same about stereo sound. They are right in both cases but that turns out to be irrelevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by d james View Post

On a side note has there been any reviews or any of you have any opinions on the scaler of these pjs? I watch alot of SD tv and Sd movies on my HD DVD A30, so obviously I want the pj that will give me the best possible picture with crappy SD resolution that I watch. I suppose there isn't going to be a whole big difference between either unit, but some opinions would still be nice

That is important to me too. I remember only one comment on the AE3000's performance of SD, I think is was "Fair." That's' another reason I'm holding off on a decision--sigh.
post #26 of 62
I sound like a broken record, but I said a while back that I think the Panny 3000 will be like a 1080UB, but with some extra processing tweaks, 2.35 zoom, and the powered zoom/focus.

Both are excellent projectors, but the Panny just got overhyped because there wasn't much testing done on it yet. When I looked at the review at cine4home for the tw2000(1080UB) and the AE3000, it was clear that they were comparable for picture performance. Art's review is now confirming that.

Dan
post #27 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce banner View Post

As a gamer I wouldn't touch a Panasonic projector with a ten-foot pole until they fix their lag issue.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1068844


They have to cut video processing with their so called "game mode" just to compete with other projectors to minimize lag.

That thead you post didn't have any that tested the 3000 did it? Also I can see NO difference in picture between the two modes.
post #28 of 62
I purchased the epson after using the ae2000 for 2 months ,for me the difference was massive better blacks ,sharper the only downside was slightly louder in full brightness since then my friend has purchased the new pana which i have watched on quite a few occasions now and i still think the epson is better but i think i have been lucky as my epson is spot on and not like another one that i demoed a few months ago before purchasing my first panasonic.
post #29 of 62
I currently own a 5 yr old NEC HT 1000 that is giving me problems thus causing me to consider upgrading thus leaving me with 4 options:

1. NEC bulb went out that had 1624 hrs on it so ordered new one, installed it and it went out after about 6 hrs so obviously it is not the bulb. I could send it in for repair but anticipate that would be at least in the $300 to $500 range for repair.

2. Purchase the Panasonic PT- AE 3000

3. Purchase the Epson 1080 UB

4. Await release of the Epson 6500 in early December.

I am presently leaning toward purchasing the Epson UB 1080 for the following reasons and would like your alls thoughts and input.

Per Projector Review.com http://www.projectorreviews.com/pana...000u/index.php it appears that the 3000 and Epson are very close with the Epson exceling in some areas such has brightness, more pop & wow feel, a little better blacks. The report gives the edge on motion blur in fast moving scenes to Panasonic but indicates it is minimal.

Thus I am leaning toward the Epson for the following reasons:

1. COST: With rebate and free lamp offer net cost is $500 or 20% less
2. Warranty: Epson offers 2 years with immediate projector replacement whereas Panasonic is only 1
3. Build quality seems to give Epson advantage
4. Blacks: Per the above report tester feels Epson's blacks are slightly better than Panasonic even thought Panasonic has a slightly better contrast ratio.
5. Per Projector Review choice between these two is a tough call so mixing 1 & 2 into the mix would indicate Epson is way to go.
6. Customer Service with Epson is reported to be excellent.

I know in terms of features, Panasonic wins hands down.

Option 4: I suspect the 6500 will obviously be somewhat better with the blacks, with up conversion of SD DVD's and a longer bulb life but at a cost of about a $1,000 net difference assuming it will list for $3,000. Seems longer bulb live advantage is eliminated by fact you get an extra bulb with the 1080 UB. My guess is improvement will be minimal.

Your thoughts??
post #30 of 62
I guess it boils down to weighing the risk of of the 6500 being significantly better or just incrementally better.

I think Art said it best.

As I've said in other reviews, when you have black levels this good - Panasonic PT-AE3000U or Epson Home Cinema 1080 UB, you've passed a critical threshold for performance, yes you can get better, and appreciate better, but the Panasonic is not going to deliver scenes where you would say. Geez, I need better blacks, these dark scenes don't cut it.

In light of there apparent relative parity in black level and shadow detail and the purported quality and costumer service of Epson, little personal desire for the additional features of the Panasonic, and the benefit of a free bulb, I will be placing an order for a 1080UB
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