New HD distribution via QAM tuners from Bocs? Cheap HD Modulation? - Page 7

Removed details -
HD still planned for "mid 2010".

DF

Very kind - I actually got sucked into AVS accidentally. Someone posted a nice review and I asked a few questions - features and the like. I've received an incredible number of feature and function suggestions and have quite a few folks contributing to the Pre-Wire eBook I'm working on. This place has turned out to be incredibly valuable. The key for me has been to try to stick to support and general help as my contribution to the forums and let the distributors do the salesy/marketing thing - that's my little seperation of Church/State...

As for RCN, I've not heard anything specifically regarding them other than in some areas they use the FM band for a few digital channels. Worst case, if you lose anothing valuable when BOCS is installed, you can always run one wire to supply a "clean, unfiltered" signal to the main STB. Check out this picture (crudely done, I apologize in advance). It bypasses any issues you might have.

Link to image HERE.

Good luck and let me know how it goes.

DF

David, how come no response for my question? I've been really looking forward to your response. I find it difficult to believe that other folks haven't asked the same question already, but I have spent hours perusing the forum and haven't yet come across the answer.

Tony

Sorry - I just flat missed it - my sincere apologies.

What you outline should work just fine, in fact, there are a few "hidden" buttons that should allow you flexibility.
The IR outputs have plenty of drive to run the dual emitter cables (although we don't sell them they are readily available online).
You will notice a "shift" key - the little yellow up arrow... All the markings on the case that are yellow (A, B, C, D, +100 and a few others) are functions you can program for your receiver. i.e. maybe a, b, c, d are 4 input choices and choose something else to be volume. That way you don't lose any keys for the source device (Red, Green, or Blue). To accomplish this, program the IR code for the source device first, and then learn the receiver buttons in on top of that.

A Second BOCS works well and I can make a good deal if all you need is the BOCS itself (no cables, supercombiner remote etc) - and there is a way to wire it in that does not step on other digital channels. In fact, I just got through writing up a document on how to do just that - I'm posting that document HERE for anyone that would like to review it.

By the way, the use of the BOCS09 coupon in conjunction with the black friday deal I understand was accidental - I think you have to order enough to put the total up to $250 before the coupon works, so you have to order the black friday deal and add in at least 3 remotes - then the coupon will work making the remotes about $30... They extended that special till Friday.

Good luck - and my phone is 720-206-4114 if you have trouble hooking anything up or programming those remotes.

DF

Bummer.

No worries. I very much appreciate your response. I might want to take you up on the 2nd BOCS, but I want to check out the system first. I'm anxious to play with it but the wife is going to make me keep it under the tree until Xmas. . Its going to be hard to wait that long without playing with it, but I'll try.

Thanks again,
Tony

David,

Will I still be able to use my Tivo remote or will the IR blaster cable interfere with the original device remotes?

Thanks,
Theo

Meaning, if the IR blaster end is stuck on top of the IR receiver on your Tivo, will your Tivo remote still be able to get through to the receiver in the Tivo?

Yes - I had the ir blaster ends made a color that is transparent in the IR band. Although it looks dark, if you were to look at it through a digital camera it appears clear (good trick to make sure ir blasters are actually flashing by the way)...

You Tivo remote should not be affected at all.

Goodluck
DF

That was quick. I have a system in my cart ready to purchase. The only thing holding me back from hitting the order button is the HD capability.

I know you said, possibly around March and it will be under 500 for one HD source. How would it work? Will it be connected through one of the component connections on the back of the hub?

Thanks.

I have to start by saying you shouldn't buy something (like the basic BOCS system) on hopes that the HD version will be out at a given time on promises from anyone, including me. If the basic system does not give you what you need, please (honestly) don't buy it now. I know that sounds strange, but I've already had to push the date once (I posted the details of why previously) and no way will I guarantee anything as we are a small company (except you WILL owe taxes in April)...

That said, the current plan is an upgrade system - a stand alone HD modulator that basically replaces a channel of the basic BOCS system with its own HD version. Another strange thing is that I've been consistently recommending the ZeeVee system as a short term replacement until I have something to offer. I've had good luck integrating the two systems for folks who couldn't wait. They have a "consumer" version that runs $1000 a channel. Obviously if you are wanting more than about 2 channels it is suddenly cheaper to just go with a component switched matrix.

Hope I didn't turn you off, I just want to give info as I get it and not ever have to lay awake wondering what I promised someone.

DF

What about those of us who are patient? $500/channel is worth waiting for...at least for me. I'm in no rush.

David, I understand and didn't expect a promise. Just wondering how it would work in theory. Take a current BOCs install, where and what would the new connections be?

I did see the ZeeVee product, which is now $399 BTW, and that could always be an option in the future.

Thanks again.

Hi,

Got my BOCS this week and it is working well. The HD content from my HD Tivo is better than expected, even on my 50" plasma TV in my media room in the basement.

Regarding the HD add-on device will it be able to send the Dolby Digital (surround sound) over the coax as well? I am hoping it does as I can then use the optical out on my TV to get the sound to my receiver in my basement?

I am also curious on clarification on how an HD add on would work. Based on you most recent message I think what you are saying is that the HD would be a separate box entirely, but it would still make use of the super combiner. So if I were to purchase the HD unit it would sit next to my BOCS but not be physically connected in any way. It would take over a channel on the BOCS (lets say the green channel - 96) at the supercombiner level only?

I also looked at the ZeeVee option and the cheaper unit just handles video from you computer over the internet, the ZvBox 100. The ZvBox 150 is still around a $1000 (from what I can see) for the ability to use a standard HD component video source.

I agree a $500 is worth waiting for.

Thanks!

Howdy all:

For all of you who have purchased a BOCS system, I have something new for you. I've received a lot of requests for new features - macros, new IR codes, "gee I really wish this button did THIS" etc. and I've not been able to respond to every one, so we decided to go Open Source on the remote control firmware.

I already experimented with one user (allowing him to make modifications), and the experience was so great that we decided to make it available to everyone. (My engineers are terrified by the way)...

Obviously not everyone is cut out to modify C code, compile and test it with reasonable documentation and offer it back up to the community, but my guess is that many in this forum are.

I've posted the details over in the "Remote Control" threads HERE.
Basically, I've laid out the structure of the remote, provided that basic firmware layers, and if you decide you want to make changes (either for yourself or the community), I ask you to sign a simple agreement (that I'm currently working up - basically just says no guaranteed support) to get the full source code that is ready to compile.

If nothing else, you might like insight into how remote source code like this is written -

I would ask that all questions on the code, etc be posted over on the linked remote control thread.

David

I'm thinking of adding some modulated channels to my setup, and I've been doing some research on the different products available. BOCS has made the short list, but I have a question about controlling the remote devices.

I understand the system uses RF remotes to communicate with the extender, but aside from initial setup, is there any need to communicate with the extender itself on a regular basis? I already have custom programmed universal remotes at each TV, and I'm not really interested in replacing them. But adding a distributed IR system would be trivial for me, and would handle the control of the remote devices without needing the RF remotes and the extender's control system.

Is what I'm suggesting possible? My assumption is that all three extender "channels" are active all the time, so there shouldn't be any need to access the extender itself except for setup issues.

You got it right - the channels are active all the time, and while our remotes provide kind of a "zen" ease of use - press Red to watch red channel, etc. That can easily be accomplished with universal remotes and a distributed IR system. In fact, I have plenty of folks that have programmed into their harmonys a "Red" button - it changes tv input to tuner, changes channel to 14 and then puts the remote into "dvr" mode... to simulate my UI (If you can call it a UI)...

One minor little thing, and it is probably very trivial but important to me: disregarding the issue with IR pickups and interference with plasma/LCD TVs - I've gotten very used to an RF interface. Yeah, this is incredibly lazy, but it irritates me to have to actually point a remote at something now. I like, espescially in bed, being able to leave the remote under the covers between us and not having to do the arm up high over your head, remote inverted in your hand to change channels.

Good news is that even disregarding the remote control system, a three channel modulator that works in the FM band (we are the only one out there - helps to not step on cable channels), puts out 30dB (high quality video), built in filter (normally runs you another $30), and has stereo/basic dolby can't be had for the same price. Amperor continues to run their holiday special...

Good luck with your choice - let us know how it goes.

David

Thanks for the good info David. You really have a great product on your hands here.

You make a good point about RF, especially when it comes to macros - nothing is worse than missing a step because you didn't point the remote at the screen long enough. Still, it's good to know that I have options.

My timeframe for purchase is 6-9 months (moving from an apt to a house), but that holiday deal is almost too good to pass up. Decisions, decisions...

Quick update -
I announced recently that we had gone open source on the remote firmware and as I mentioned one user already dove in. What I didn't realize is the extent of what he did - we now have access to full macros - essentially giving this combo IR-RF remote the same capability as a basic harmony (no screen but it will do all the same things...

That might solve your issues in each room - I'll be posting more on this soon (as soon as I can really run his stuff through the ringer)..

DF

My BOCS experience turned out to be an awesome adventure one that you may want to take as well!

The initial engagement:
Like many who made the jump to HD and added a DVR, I was frustrated that I could not access the stored shows in my bedroom. The thought of getting a second DVR and recording the exact same shows (not to mention paying more monthly fees to Comcast) just didn't seem ideal. After searching the Internet, I came across the BOCS unit and it seemed like a perfect fit. Not only could I watch my recorded shows in the bedroom but I could eliminate my second media box that stores all my DIVX movies (thus eliminating the hassle of keeping them synchronized).

When my unit arrived, I quickly tore apart my media center, hooked up my unit, programmed my remotes (which are awesome because they truly were universal) and was up and running in no time flat.

BUT:
After showing my wife how the RED button made the bedroom TV function just like she was in the living room and how she could watch her soaps in peace when I wanted to watch a movie in the other room life was great. until she started using the 2nd remote I had purchased with the living room setup. We have a cable box/DVR combo and pressing the RED button in the living room meant the TV was no longer High Definition since the BOCS remote forces the TV to a tuner channel - even in the main TV room. Obviously, all you have to do is change the TV to HDMI input, but after many attempts of explaining that when in the living room, don't press the RED button, press the CBL button and she would be still be in HD and have access to the DVR functions - that is of course unless she was previously watching a movie using the BLUE button, then she needed to change the input and then press the CBL button. It made perfect sense to me but after a couple more times of her pressing the RED button on the living room remote Like I do in the bedroom she declared my latest project a failure.

Surprise - Surprise:
I loved the new system and failure wasn't an option, so I reached out to David Feller. I explained my dilemma and also added that I do software programming as a hobby and had an idea of how I could change the remote to solve my problem. I'm not sure who was crazier, me for making the request or him for agreeing to let me try. Either way, I am thankful that he took a chance and sent me the code as well as the hardware needed to modify the remote because here is what became of it:

What I (she) wanted:
Regardless of what room my wife is in, she wanted to push the RED button to watch her soaps. When she happens to be in the living room, this would mean pressing the RED button would cause the TV to select the HD input and make the CBL button active, regardless of what state the system was in. We have a HD-TV in the living room so when in there, she wanted her soaps IN HIGH DEFINITION!!!

To accomplish this, I would need to setup a sequence of commands that would be sent in order with a delay between each command hang on a second that sounds like what a high priced Harmony remote does. Could I make the BOCS remote go into a learning mode and capture sequences easily to be replayed? Could I store multiple sequences and associate them to other buttons?

Where I ended up:
To make a long story a little shorter, after a lot of programming, (and countless emails to David!), My BOCS remote does just what my wife wanted above. Not only that but it can now turn on my DVD player, change my TV input to DVD, turn on my surround sound system, change that input to DVD and make the DVD button active by simply pressing the GREEN button!!!

I can turn on my CD player, then my surround sound system, change the input to CD and have the AUX button that controls my surround system active, just by playing a AUX sequence!!!

If this all sounds confusing, the short version is this, I added:
· 4 new programmable buttons that will each accept up to a series of 8 commands with delays between each
· The ability to assign these sequences to the BOCS RED, GREEN or BLUE buttons - essentially letting you completely redefine what those three buttons do
· This results in a remote that can now be used in the main TV location and completely replace the need for a Harmony remote!

You can do it too:
If I have caught your interest great! As a result of my success, David has decided to extend the offer to others that want to reprogram their remote. The code is well written and documented. Even with a rudimentary understanding of C++, changing remote functions is fairly straightforward. There is plenty of memory space available for more functions, and as a combination RF and IR remote with a spectacular basestation in the Xtender, it can be programmed to do just about anything. Home Automation, Security, lighting control, and of course entertainment control.

By the way, David provided excellent support and helped me through getting everything up and running.

Want the easy way out?
There are 3 options if you would like to take advantage of what I did (no C++ programming on your part).

1.) If you have the knowledge\ ools\\ability to flash your remote, I will send you the compiled file gratis.
2.) You could physically send me your remote (along with a small donation to help me save for my next BOCS unit and shipping money to get it back, say $15 total)
3.) I have new remotes, which have the sequencing capabilities already added, that I am selling for $49, which includes priority shipping.

My email address is remoteupdate@live.com - just drop me a note to make arrangements.

Also, if you have an idea for a good remote feature, I'm open to suggestions, as I understand the firmware pretty darn well now.

Craig

Howdy:

Not sure if yall caught that last post, but I feel the need to boast a little. Craig took me up on my "open firmware offer" and, frankly, did some amazing things:

1) Addition of macro capability - program in a sequence of functions/keys
2) Ability to reassign BOCS buttons - can be input specific changes instead of just channels
3) Reprogrammed the AUX/Volume button so you can have independent control of an AV tuner...

Meanwhile, I went ahead and added a few needed upgrades as well - providing 10 discrete input buttons so you can have your TV go directly to an input rather than having to scroll through them, and changing the sequential TV input button to be active regardless of what mode you are in.

Result?

• Now you can use a BOCS remote in the main room and NOT LOOSE HD. Previously I recommended not using a BOCS remote in the main room since it always tries to change the channel on the TV to the modulated channel - when in the main room what you really want is to go to HDMI1 (or whatever) - that is now possible.
• Every remote in the home is now the same - even the main TV room
• You can program sequences - i..e power on can now turn all your equipment on or off, pressing Blue can go to HDMI1, dim the lights, start the movie, and put the remote in Blu-Ray mode

Sound familiar? Yeah - like a Harmony remote

Very cool Craig!!
I've got this up and running in my home and it is spectacular - it says good things for the whole open source thing when a user can make something much better than is came OEM...

I did a little demo video and will have an update to the users manual that describes the change as well.

Craig is offering an upgrade service - you DO NOT need to upgrade the BOCS MediaHub firmware - only the remote. Or he will sell you a new remote with the new firmware in it already for your main room.

Questions?

David

I'm trying to setup my Xtender to control a Comcast DTA model DC50X. This is one of the free boxes that they include in our area since almost all channels are now digital. Online searches show that many folks think that it is manufactured by Pace but I don't know for sure. I do know that none of the Pace codes listed in the library seem to work. It never turns off so it's very difficult to use a code search on and I can't seem to get the Xtender to accept any of the signals when I try to learn them in.

BTW, this DTA doesn't have any composite out so I've hooked it to an old VCR so that I can connect to the Xtender. This works fine and I can watch it thru the BOCS, but I can't control it via the BOCS which really defeats the purpose.

I do know that our series 2 TiVo is able to control one. In the TiVo system they have a choice for Comcast DTA that works. Surely I can't be the first to try this but I can't seem to find anything online to help. Any advice?

Thanks,
Tony

Howdy - I just replied to the email (same text as here it looks like) you sent me.
I gave you a couple codes to try -
If your remote is a "grey" comcast remote it is the new XMP protocol and is covered by code 06078 (if the firmeare in your remote is new enough)...

But, I've also found the specific codes for that particular DTA and have a compiled upgrade code I can put in a remote for you. Bad news is that if we have to go that route, I'll need to upgrade a BOCS unit and remote and send it to you to swap out.

Either way we will definitely get it working for you.

But, since DTAs like that do not have composite out - only modulated on channel 3/4 - I strongly suggest swapping that unit out for a "real" STB from comcast (They are easily controlled by my unit and keeping from modulating twice in one channel will greatly improve video quality - I would think noticeably so... ) I checked and it is a difference of $2.50 a month for the better quality.

Let me know what you want to do and I'll definitely take care of you.

David

I just replied to your email response as well. Sorry for hitting both your email and here, but I have been at trying to set up my pair of BOCS units all day and have had one issue after another. To be fair, they have not all been with the BOCS and I do believe that I have a more complex than average setup.

Turns out that the reason that my TiVo isnt working fully with the BOCS is that the Tivo video out seemingly quite working as I started trying to set this up. Even the component out to my AV receiver stopped working. Very poor timing indeed.

Anyway, the DTC is one of the ones they provide free and has a smaller black remote. I'll probably need to upgrade to a real STB since I do already have one in this very same setup and it is working without issue.


Do we really have to purchase a code to allow the BOCS remotes to learn local TV codes?

Thanks,
Tony

Looks like I need an RF repeater. I have an extra supercombiner and install kit (minus one IR bug). Anyone out there have a RF repeater that they no longer need and would be interested in some kind of trade? You can email me at avsforum@stuckarts.com.

Thanks,
Tony

I think there are two outstanding questions (let me know if I missed anything)

1) Do you have to pay for learning upgrade for the remotes - No - that is now free (we decided it was too difficult to regulate and all the new firmware has learning pre-enabled - not sure when that starts shipping. In the meantime, just email me the serial numbers for te remotes you want to unlock and I'll send you the codes for each.

2) Code for the Comcast DTA - I think you mentioned you were getting a firmware upgrade from Craig, I need to verify that his version has the 06078 code in it, and if it does not work, I found a code for the DTA and will swap out with you. I plan on grabbing one from Comcast this week to test and I'll let you know.

David

Thanks David. I was confused by the doc saying that I needed to purchase an unlock code to enable learning as I thought I had read somewhere that they had learning by default. Clearly none of my remotes do. I only sent 1 of my 5 remotes to Craig. Will that one come back with learning enabled due to the new firmware?

I'll send you the serials from the other 4 later today when I get back to the house. That's been part of my pain as it turns out that 2 of my TVs need to be learned in because they are not in the existing library.

After your advice on modulating twice, I'm going to check with Comcast on getting a full blown STB even though I hate the thought of paying them more on a monthly basis.

Looks like you can buy used dct700s on eBay but I'm leery of that. I chatted with a Comcast CSR earlier today and they said that they would activate a used STB for me. I'm just not sure I trust them.


Tony

I'm very interested to see if that works (the used cable box thing) - I've done it extensively with directv boxes (you have to make sure by getting the serial/box number to make sure it is in fact a purchased box and not a rented one someone is trying to sell - but they are easily activated. I've never thought of doing it with cable.

It is your call, but I plan on visiting the local comcast office today to see if I can get a DC50X - if so I'll be able to test new codes and get that working for you as well. The DTAs in the Boulder co area respond to the standard motorola code so I'm guessing you have a version with the XMP protocol - The remote is the key and now that I have a picture I can try to replicate.

I'll give you one more level of detail - we use a UEI blaster chip (which also does learning) - but when I ran into the issue the first time, UEI (which invented the XMP protocol by the way) said that their chips could not learn the XMP protocol... I'm hoping someone got fired by the way... So, when we run across a new XMP protocol we have to load the code into the blaster chip with a serial cable. Not a big deal, but not something that is currently easy for a user. In my spare time I'm working on a firmware upgrade that would allow you to hook the remote to your computer to do an upgrade but my current lack of spare time is hindering that project. So the short term answer is once get the code working I can ship you a replacement with it already programmed and upgrade the master firmware file so all new units that go out have it in it.

Probably more than you wanted to know.

David

Good info David. I don't think I have ever complained about too much information.
Also, thanks for the fast turn around on the unlock codes for the learning remote function.

I can honestly say that I have never received this level of service from any other company that I have ever purchased from. I dont know how you have any spare time. I'm a customer for life and will recommend your product (actually already have) to everyone I know.

Thanks again,
Tony

Thanks for the kind words -
In my opinion, though, this is how it should be with EVERY company.

David

I just got back from the local Comcast office where I went to pick up a full STB. I asked the CSR if I could get a list of model numbers for compatible hardware that I could purchase myself. She couldnt give me one and said that she wouldnt even know where to buy one. I mentioned eBay and she said that they were all stolen property and if I tried to use one, that Comcast would just take it away and thank me for returning their property. Hmmm, who do I believe?