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New HDMI Colour Space w/NXE - Page 7

post #181 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumpapi View Post

so for my kuro 151 i should just leave it on auto, and i should be good for gaming? i normally play sports games like nba 2k9

I'm glad you asked that question. I also have a Kuro 151. If you notice, the 151 has a "Auto" setting that displays the type of video signal it's being fed. So in that case, it may not matter, but then again it may not.

And because of that, I'm thinking "Auto" from the Xbox 360 might be a good choice. That or RGB, but I'm leaning towards "Auto".

I did not even know this was a new setting since we've gotten the new dashboard. And since I never changed any of the settings, I've never known the image to look any different. And so in my case, it's at the same setting it always was, and I don't even know what that setting is!
post #182 of 209
so u think i should lave it on auto on the television and auto on the 360?
post #183 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumpapi View Post

so u think i should lave it on auto on the television and auto on the 360?


That's what I'm thinking.

However, I'll check within the next day or so to see what my Xbox is set at. I already know that my Kuro is set at "Auto" so I'll be leaving that alone.
post #184 of 209
Well I am switching to expanded now. I know its wrong, but its become clear xbox developers dont have a standard for these things. Alot of games seem to be made in pc level. Or 0IRE which is what it is in japan. Playing two capcom titles this week, res eve 5 demo, and street fighter, both had huge washout on my projector, which is calibrated to gamma of 2.2, and on the verge of nearly clipping blacks, so I know its not my set. Street fighter does not even have gamma adjust.


Even freinds who dont know anything about it came by and said "turn down that gamma" I have been forced to set it to expanded now, its not technically correct, but its clear thats how many developers make games at pc levels.
post #185 of 209
And for resident evil 5, when calibrating brightness, with my xbox on standard I turned the brightness down all the way and could still see the letters BSAA.

Again it really seems some developers are using pc levels or 0 IRE, especially in japan where thats the standard.
post #186 of 209
@Murilo

Do you have a video calibration dvd? I tried a few and you couldn't even calibrate the brightness when mine was set to Expanded. For example, on the Halo 3 bonus disk there's a video calibration feature. In the brightness test, you raise the brightness until the UNSC symbol barely appears- on Expanded, it can't even display the symbol no matter how high the brightness is.

Currently I have mine set to Intermediate, and it's perfect for my TV. I use VGA though (HDMI just doesn't look as good on my TV).
post #187 of 209
Vga should be set to expanded since its pc levels.

Gamma levels also make a difference, perhaps your screen is calibrated a bit darker. I calibrate my set using DVE, but it seems games are a different story, I dont know if its because there rgb, or why.

My gamma is set for 2.2, theres debate between 2.2 or 2.4 but either is what its suppose to be at.

I notice changing gamma and recalibrating brightness on Digital video essentials does not have much of an impact, yet on games, gamma adjustment seems to have more of an impact.

I went from 2.4 to 2.2 this week. In dve there was minimal change, I lowered brightness and contrast 1 notch due to the gamma change. When i went to play games however the gamma change seemed to really brighten all games up where in dve and movies it calibrated almost identically to 2.4.


I dont know alot about games, but do they rely more on gamma levels or something?
post #188 of 209
Did you guys check out the community games section for a title called TV Calibration. I'm not sure how much it goes into but it's only 200 MSFT points.
post #189 of 209
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/ga...-d802585501a2/

That's a nifty little tool. I added it to my queue and will check it out later.
post #190 of 209
How's the calibration title working out? Would you recommend it?
post #191 of 209
i love how my colors look on expanded, my blacks are just a bit crushed for my liking. super inky of the inkiest lol
post #192 of 209
Sorry for the bump, but this seemed the most relevant thread for my query. And sorry for any redundancy, most of this stuff is pretty far over my head.

I've got a Samsung R8 LCD, and I'm connected via HDMI. Consensus seems to be that Standard is the preferred reference level, with which colour space? Does Auto use RGB for games and YCbCr for DVDs? Anyone know the difference between Auto and Source?

If anyone using HDMI on a Samsung R8 could post their settings, that'd be great too. Thanks!
post #193 of 209
I've got a Samsung 5256F (one model before they started doing the A, B, etc series models) and I have left it at Standard and Auto. As far as I can tell it seems to do the trick. It also depends what your HDMI Black Level on your TV is set to. Mine is set to low.
post #194 of 209
I have the Samsung 67a750. I have mine set to Expanded, source, and the hdmi black level to normal. You can also use standard as long as you set the hdmi black level to low. I'm still looking for an answer for the best color space for my sammy, but no one has an answer for the 360.
post #195 of 209
Thanks guys. Yeah, after posting I managed to wrap my head around some of the stuff in this thread, and most people seemed to use one of those two setups (Expanded+Source+Normal or Standard+Auto+Low). Still not sure what Auto and Source do differently, though.

EDIT: Um, this is James_W. Didn't realise I already had a login...
post #196 of 209
Thread Starter 
Just noticed in the need for speed shift demo theres a video calibration tool.
Should help aot of us out.
post #197 of 209
Guys , so u have display discovery ON or OFF?
post #198 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

Guys , so u have display discovery ON or OFF?

If you want to the 360 to know anything at all about the capabilities of your display and that includes color space support yuv Vs. RGB, resolutions, etc, you should have display recovery set to "on", else the 360 can only guess at what your display supports. I don't know for sure, but I'd guess with display recovery off, it defaults to RGB full range on the assumption that you have some wonky PC monitor hooked up that can't do EDID.

P.J.
post #199 of 209
so ill just leave it on then
post #200 of 209
I am curious - those of you using an Xbox 360 and an HDMI connection to a Samsung PN58B550 - what are your display settings?

ColorSpace, Reference levels, etc.

Many thanks!
post #201 of 209
THIS TOOK ME AWHILE TOO FIGURE OUT RGB 4.4.4 NORMAL WORKS//// RGB 4.4.4 ENHANCED DOESNT WORK///// YCbCr 4.4.4 AND YCbCr 4.2.2 WORK ALSO CALIBRATION WITH DVE BLUERAY VERSION THE ENHANCED RGB CUTS THE WHITE AND BLACK LEVEL EVEN ON THE SONY BLUERAY ALL CD, BLUERAYS, ETC..ARE FORMATTED IN YCbCr IS THE BEST CHOICE // ITS CLEARER, SHARPER ,AND COLOURS ARE AWESOME I HAVE A PANASONIC PZ850U GOING TO A DENON 789 SPEAKERS ARE BOSTONS WITH AUDIOQUEST HDMI AND SPEARKER WIRE ALL AROUND THE XBOX IS COMPONET TO THE DENON OUT USING HDMI AUDIOQUEST IT DOES 1080P THIS WAY OR JUST RUN A SECOND CABLE FROM THE MOITOR OUT FROM THE AMP TOO TV 1080P WITH COMPONET
post #202 of 209
Anyone w/ a relatively new Panasonic S1 or G10 that feels confident of the settings they've chosen?

I've been using Auto/Standard for so long and just recently switched to expanded. The blacks look much improved on Pure (ATV game that came w/ Elite), but I don't see much detail missing. It seems...right?

I'm about to start in on Mass Effect again, so that might be a better tell of this setting.
post #203 of 209
I'll post this from my past experiences:

On all the Samsung TVs I have bought:

I have the LN52B750, and I can guarantee that this will be the proper brightness if you have XBox 360 on Expanded, and the Samsung HDMI Level on Normal:

Samsung
Brightness 44
Black Adjust: OFF
HDMI Black Level Normal

360:
Expanded

Everything else is up for debate, but I can guarantee you will be at the proper brightness setting before blacks start getting crushed. It even works the same on my PS3 and Netbook. Brightness is ALWAYS the cutoff point before the 0 value blacks start getting crushed.

Gamma is also debated, but I leave it at 0 for my B750. You may raise it to get better shadow detail at the expense of overall black level.

I know the Brightness is best at 44, because I have owned 4 other Samsung sets in the past, and the cut off point for brightness with the mentioned Samsung and 360 options before you start crushing blacks has ALWAYS been 44, even on my old Samsung LED DLP. Samsung TVs have been pretty consistent with this, from what I have experienced.

I have owned:

Samsung LN4066F
LN4071F
LN2353H
HL67A750
LN52B750


I believe it's correct because Brightness at 44 is the value that works best even on my ps3s and netbook, with my test images.
post #204 of 209
^ How about when it auto switches the video? When watching a movie/game clips. Does brightness need to be bumped up?
post #205 of 209
On DVDs I have noticed that blacks seem to be in a different brightness level, I assume it being 16-235, so I can't say it's correct. I don't watch dvds on my 360 however.

For gaming and other system related things, 44 brightness has been perfect, as long as your other settings are like I mentioned. Turning on black adjust will crush blacks, and putting your levels to Standard or Intermediate on the 360 will raise black levels, in which you'll have to LOWER your TVs brightness to the low to mid 30s.

Expanded works well because all my other devices and the 360 use the same brightness at 44 with no issues.

For example, my PS3 with RGB Full, will perfectly make the 0 value black the darkest it can get at 44. 45 will make the 0 black go a little gray, and 43 and less will make it stay the same as 44, meaning you are making values higher than 0 darker than intended...crushing them.

Same with my netbook when set to 0-255. 44 is optimal once again...
post #206 of 209
I meant to ask you. When using netbook/pc. Do you have it set to:

HDMI Black Level Normal


I was always curious about when using a PC. If you change it from Low to Normal or just leave it on Low. Does it really even make a difference? Because the only way to select Low or Normal initially. A device has to be using RGB. So if you hooked it up right away to a PC. You would be stuck on Low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin CZ View Post

On DVDs I have noticed that blacks seem to be in a different brightness level, I assume it being 16-235, so I can't say it's correct. I don't watch dvds on my 360 however.

For gaming and other system related things, 44 brightness has been perfect, as long as your other settings are like I mentioned. Turning on black adjust will crush blacks, and putting your levels to Standard or Intermediate on the 360 will raise black levels, in which you'll have to LOWER your TVs brightness to the low to mid 30s.

Expanded works well because all my other devices and the 360 use the same brightness at 44 with no issues.

For example, my PS3 with RGB Full, will perfectly make the 0 value black the darkest it can get at 44. 45 will make the 0 black go a little gray, and 43 and less will make it stay the same as 44, meaning you are making values higher than 0 darker than intended...crushing them.

Same with my netbook when set to 0-255. 44 is optimal once again...
post #207 of 209
I actually noticed playing games on ycbcr colors look odd, i prefer rgb.
post #208 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Seems we might have some discrepancy here ...

When I asked a 360 game dev about the levels he stated they were indeed rendered at PC level (native) but that the 360 would re-map the levels for every output except VGA , so do not assume that what Parasite stated is 'factual' for all outputs . Now what was stated is mostly accurate for HDMI but again there are some variances by display ( and maybe even some variance by developer , maybe they have a choice within the dev tools , which could explain why some games look right , some look washed out and some look too dark ... ? ) .

I can also confirm that what I stated previously is true in that there are no additional settings for VGA other than what was already present in the older dash/firmware . So the new 'additions' only apply to HDMI .

- Jason

I understand that I'm REALLY late to the party! But I was googling some info on color banding in Xbox 360 games...

I own a Bravia KLV-40S400A, and I play my games at 1080p via HDMI. I've set reference levels to Standard, and color space to Source. Everything looks fantastic, except for banding which I notice in some games only like Forza Motorsport 4 for instance; right before the race, when your car is being displayed from different camera angles.. when up close, you can see layers of colors.. this is especially noticeable on the Lambo Reventon since it has a non-glossy carbon fiber paint job. Is this due to not setting up color space, reference levels or resolution properly? I've experimented with a whole myriad of settings, but it looks the same. Then there's Mass Effect 2; the banding in this game just looks ugly when characters are having a conversation.. you see the background and you're like.. what the?! Even when you look into the distant horizon you can see layers of colors right up to the sky. Like I said this only happens in certain games. Mass Effect 1 had no banding, neither did Forza Motorsport 3.

This gets to be at times... if the banding is present at the source level, then there's nothing we can do, right? How can I eliminate banding in games?

For the record, I also notice it in movies, but not all. Cable and Satellite TV, pretty much there in every channel. But nothing too annoying.
post #209 of 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybersoga View Post


All xbox 360 games natively have 255 levels RGB, where 0 is black and 255 is white (same as PC). If the xbox 360 is outputting video levels then the 255 levels are compressed into 223 levels which reduces picture quality for games.

And how does one exactly KNOW if the X360 is outputting 255 or 223 levels??
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