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AVS Master Thread: Discussion of Blu Ray Player's Upconversion Performance - Page 3

post #61 of 177
1/23/10 at 12:02pm
overall, do blu ray players upconvert better than receivers

thanks
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post #62 of 177
1/23/10 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nauc View Post

overall, do blu ray players upconvert better than receivers

thanks

That depends. There are some BR players that will be better than some receivers and vice versa.
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post #63 of 177
1/23/10 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

That depends. There are some BR players that will be better than some receivers and vice versa.

is there anyway to compare them. any specs to look at, etc

thanks
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post #64 of 177
1/23/10 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nauc View Post

is there anyway to compare them. any specs to look at, etc

thanks


The most useful resource would be a comparison of deinterlacing test results from a standard calibration disc like Spears & Munsil. There was a site that compiled this for DVD players but I do not know of one for BR.

Winston's has a table with a DVD column for some BR players here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1156535

I don't know if anyone has done the same thing for receivers.

-Bill
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post #65 of 177
1/23/10 at 4:19pm
I don't use my OPPO BDP-83 for upconversion. I use my 983H (looks amazing). But I do use my Sony BDP-S550 in my bedroom with dvds and was quite thrilled on how good a job it does. Never watched a dvd on it when it was my main player.
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post #66 of 177
1/24/10 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

That depends. There are some BR players that will be better than some receivers and vice versa.

Sites like "Audioholics" used to run what were called "HQV" tests on just about every new player/amp (when it did up-conversion) that came out. Silicon Optix used to make the chip sets AND a test DVD (that accurately showed just how good the chip sets were), but has since been purchased and apparently the chip sets have been discontinued; the Samsung 2500/2550 series was the last (and maybe only Blu-Ray) set of players to use them, and Onkyo was the last set of receivers to use them. Bottom line: it's all about which chip set was used for the upconversion, and they can be found in players AND amps/receivers.
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post #67 of 177
1/24/10 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by subavision212 View Post

I don't use my OPPO BDP-83 for upconversion. I use my 983H (looks amazing).

Is there a particular reason why you use the 983 for SD DVD and not the 83?? I ask because there shouldn't be any difference as they both use the same ABT chip.
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post #68 of 177
1/24/10 at 9:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

Is there a particular reason why you use the 983 for SD DVD and not the 83?? I ask because there shouldn't be any difference as they both use the same ABT chip.

nothing particular. just ease of use probably. Had the 983 for awhile before buying the 83 and I like the idea of less wear and tear on both components by using them this way. I may have to throw in the same dvd in both and try an a-b test to see if I can notice any difference, though I'm not very good at those things.
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post #69 of 177
1/25/10 at 7:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by subavision212 View Post

nothing particular. just ease of use probably. Had the 983 for awhile before buying the 83 and I like the idea of less wear and tear on both components by using them this way. I may have to throw in the same dvd in both and try an a-b test to see if I can notice any difference, though I'm not very good at those things.

Gotcha!

Would like to hear your impressions if you ever decide to do a comparison. I'd be shocked if the results vary.
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post #70 of 177
1/25/10 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

Gotcha!

Would like to hear your impressions if you ever decide to do a comparison. I'd be shocked if the results vary.

I have this in the BDP-83 FAQ: What are the differences between this player and the OPPO 983H for DVD playback?

It says "same or better" but they look the same to me. I added the "or better" just because there are a few more controls.

-Bill
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post #71 of 177
1/25/10 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I have this in the BDP-83 FAQ: What are the differences between this player and the OPPO 983H for DVD playback?

It says "same or better" but they look the same to me. I added the "or better" just because there are a few more controls.

-Bill

Thanks, Bill!

I read your faq link awhile ago but I was just struck by the mention of the 983 doing 1080p over component. I didnt know it was possible to upconvert to that resolution!! If this is indeed the case, and the ABT chip is also being utilized, that's awesome news!!
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post #72 of 177
1/25/10 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

Thanks, Bill!

I read your faq link awhile ago but I was just struck by the mention of the 983doing 1080p over component. I didnt know it was possible to upconvert to that resolution!! If this is indeed the case, that's awesome news!!

Yes, the 980H had that also. Blu-ray is limited to 1080i component due to AACS licensing. And component BR will be extinct very shortly for the same reason.

-Bill
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post #73 of 177
1/25/10 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

Thanks, Bill!

I read your faq link awhile ago but I was just struck by the mention of the 983 doing 1080p over component. I didnt know it was possible to upconvert to that resolution!! If this is indeed the case, and the ABT chip is also being utilized, that's awesome news!!

ABT is not used for component on the 983H or the BDP-83.

-Bill
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post #74 of 177
1/25/10 at 1:49pm
I have the OPO BDP-83 and the upconversion is so outstanding that I sometime mistake my DVD disks for blue ray disks. The DVD-A playback is incredible. It sounds better than my turntable
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post #75 of 177
1/25/10 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Yes, the 980H had that also. Blu-ray is limited to 1080i component due to AACS licensing. And component BR will be extinct very shortly for the same reason.

-Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

ABT is not used for component on the 983H or the BDP-83.

-Bill

Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification. So it's the Mediatek chip doing the upconverting then, right? Is there a firmware update available for the component upconversion for the two (like the 970), or is it enabled out-of-the-box? Thanks!

P.S. I'm interested (excited) about this prospect because I sometimes prefer the PQ via component than HDMI.
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post #76 of 177
1/25/10 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification. So it's the Mediatek chip doing the upconverting then, right? Is there a firmware update available for the component upconversion for the two (like the 970), or is it enabled out-of-the-box? Thanks!

P.S. I'm interested (excited) about this prospect because I sometimes prefer the PQ via component than HDMI.

Copy protected DVD is limited to 480i/480p over component. This is another licensing restriction. I've heard of mods to make the -83 (and now the -80) region free from DVD and BR, but don't recall anyone mentioning component upscaling.

-Bill
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post #77 of 177
1/25/10 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Copy protected DVD is limited to 480i/480p over component. This is another licensing restriction. I've heard of mods to make the -83 (and now the -80) region free from DVD and BR, but don't recall anyone mentioning component upscaling.

-Bill

Oh ok, that's what I thought. Then the 1080p component output listed for the 983 on your faq link is referring to non-copy protected DVD. So if anyone wanted component upconversion of copy protecting DVD (limited to 1080i), then they should stick to the Oppo 970.

Thanks!
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post #78 of 177
6/17/10 at 6:22pm
Hey everyone,

Is there a way to disable upscaling on the Sony Bluray players for when watching DVD's? I have the Sony BDP-N460.

I would think it would be best to have the Bluray player output a native signal over HDMI and let my Onkyo receiver with HQV Reon-VX upscaling perform the task.

My only options that I can find are to either leave the Bluray player set to "Auto" which seems to output DVDs at 1080p (according to my receiver's OSD for the input) or force a resolution, which obviously I do not want for when playing blurays.

Any ideas? I've been searching this forum as well as google for about 20 minutes and came up empty handed...

Thanks!
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post #79 of 177
6/17/10 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHorne View Post

Hey everyone,

Is there a way to disable upscaling on the Sony Bluray players for when watching DVD's? I have the Sony BDP-N460.

I would think it would be best to have the Bluray player output a native signal over HDMI and let my Onkyo receiver with HQV Reon-VX upscaling perform the task.

My only options that I can find are to either leave the Bluray player set to "Auto" which seems to output DVDs at 1080p (according to my receiver's OSD for the input) or force a resolution, which obviously I do not want for when playing blurays.

Any ideas? I've been searching this forum as well as google for about 20 minutes and came up empty handed...

Thanks!

You would like a Source Direct setting, which according to Winston's chart your Sony doesn't have: http://winstonsreviews.com/?page_id=69

As you say you can set the player to 480i (does it do that?) for DVDs and switch to 1080p for Blu-ray, but it is not automatic.

-Bill
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post #80 of 177
6/17/10 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

You would like a Source Direct setting, which according to Winston's chart your Sony doesn't have: http://winstonsreviews.com/?page_id=69

As you say you can set the player to 480i (does it do that?) for DVDs and switch to 1080p for Blu-ray, but it is not automatic.

-Bill

Bill, that is nuts! You can't turn OFF a feature??? Stupid Sony...

I could do the switch manually, but I still think it would be passing the signal through the processors. I would like a completely direct feed, which apparently it cannot do.

And to think I thought all bluray players were pretty much the same (as far as bluray playback goes...)!

Thanks for the reply
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post #81 of 177
6/23/10 at 6:00pm
im still doing testing


BLUE RAY PLAYER: samsung bd-c5500
Standard DVD player: xbox 360
Projector: Panny 900u 800hours


my first test was with 2 lord of the rings #3, one in each player. and i switched from component source of the xbox(using component cables but still only 480p cuz of standard 360 dvd drive) to hdmi of the samsung.
so switching between the two movies playing simultaneusly one 10 seconds ahead of the other,,, i could find NO difference in picture quality!

i am about to test alice in wanderland blue ray on the blue ray player to alice in wanderland on the xbox (non blueray)
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post #82 of 177
6/23/10 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdogo2 View Post

im still doing testing


BLUE RAY PLAYER: samsung bd-c5500
Standard DVD player: xbox 360
Projector: Panny 900u 800hours


my first test was with 2 lord of the rings #3, one in each player. and i switched from component source of the xbox(using component cables but still only 480p cuz of standard 360 dvd drive) to hdmi of the samsung.
so switching between the two movies playing simultaneusly one 10 seconds ahead of the other,,, i could find NO difference in picture quality!

Is that the strange result?

-Bill
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post #83 of 177
6/24/10 at 7:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdogo2 View Post

im still doing testing


BLUE RAY PLAYER: samsung bd-c5500
Standard DVD player: xbox 360
Projector: Panny 900u 800hours


my first test was with 2 lord of the rings #3, one in each player. and i switched from component source of the xbox(using component cables but still only 480p cuz of standard 360 dvd drive) to hdmi of the samsung.
so switching between the two movies playing simultaneusly one 10 seconds ahead of the other,,, i could find NO difference in picture quality!

i am about to test alice in wanderland blue ray on the blue ray player to alice in wanderland on the xbox (non blueray)

Put your glasses on and look closer.
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post #84 of 177
6/24/10 at 7:50am
Is this maybe because your AVR is doing the upconverting?
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post #85 of 177
6/24/10 at 8:42am
^ avr would be?

i just tried alice in wanderland on blueray vs non blue ray in the xbox, so 1080i/24p vs 480p
and there was only a difference in color contrast. the xbox was more dim and grey while the bluray enhanced the color making it slightly more enjoyable to watch.

is my blue ray player not good enough or is all this hype about blue ray just some bull. i was expecting everything on the blueray player to be better
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post #86 of 177
6/24/10 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkdogo2 View Post

^ avr would be?

i just tried alice in wanderland on blueray vs non blue ray in the xbox, so 1080i/24p vs 480p
and there was only a difference in color contrast. the xbox was more dim and grey while the bluray enhanced the color making it slightly more enjoyable to watch.

is my blue ray player not good enough or is all this hype about blue ray just some bull. i was expecting everything on the blueray player to be better

I've been buying BD versions of many DVDs I have. Using the same player and TV (Pioneer 320 and Pioneer Elite 151, professionally calibrated) I've yet to come across a BD that didn't look better than it's DVD counterpart. In some cases the improvement is modest and in others it's huge.

Just like with DVD, BD quality will vary greatly depending on the care taken in creating the master and transfering it to BD. BD has the potential to look far better than DVD, but unfortunately studios don't always take advantage of BDs abilities.
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post #87 of 177
6/24/10 at 2:57pm
There is something wrong with your methodology, your equipment, or the way it's set up.

That's a 720p projector, right? Is that what the BD player is putting out?
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post #88 of 177
7/10/10 at 4:49pm
I have the OPPO OPDV971H DVD player which upconverts to 720p or 1080i. I'm shopping around for a new BluRay player and I'm wondering if I should invest in a player that has excellent upconversion, or just continue to use my Oppo DVD player for DVDs and get a blu-ray player based on other features like streaming, wireless, 3d ready, etc.

I have the Oppo set to upconvert to 1080i and then the JVC Projector is converting it to 1080p. I have the JVC-RS10 projector on a 114" screen, so DVD upconversion is pretty important to me. The Oppo does a pretty good job right now for DVD's as far as I can tell, but I'm not quite sure what to expect to be honest.

I see good upconverting machines like the top of the line Panny 85K or the Pioneer 320 are about $180-$200, but I would not get either one of those if upconversion was not a factor.

Any thoughts?
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post #89 of 177
7/11/10 at 4:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello View Post

I have the OPPO OPDV971H DVD player which upconverts to 720p or 1080i. I'm shopping around for a new BluRay player and I'm wondering if I should invest in a player that has excellent upconversion, or just continue to use my Oppo DVD player for DVDs and get a blu-ray player based on other features like streaming, wireless, 3d ready, etc.

I have the Oppo set to upconvert to 1080i and then the JVC Projector is converting it to 1080p. I have the JVC-RS10 projector on a 114" screen, so DVD upconversion is pretty important to me. The Oppo does a pretty good job right now for DVD's as far as I can tell, but I'm not quite sure what to expect to be honest.

I see good upconverting machines like the top of the line Panny 85K or the Pioneer 320 are about $180-$200, but I would not get either one of those if upconversion was not a factor.

Any thoughts?

The generation of Faroudja chips used in the 971 was competitive for its time but has been surpassed by more recent technology. For DVD performance ratings of BR players see Winston's table here: http://winstonsreviews.com/?page_id=63. He has detailed test results on another page.

-Bill
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post #90 of 177
7/11/10 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The generation of Faroudja chips used in the 971 was competitive for its time but has been surpassed by more recent technology. For DVD performance ratings of BR players see Winston's table here: http://winstonsreviews.com/?page_id=63. He has detailed test results on another page.

-Bill

Thanks for the comments. How about getting a model with source direct (I think most of the new sonys have an 'original resolution' option, which I think is the same as source direct) and letting the JVC do all the upconversion? The JVC has a Silicon Optix Reon-VX processor...not sure where that ranks among the newer oppo blu-ray players of the world(?)
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