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Best way to wipe dust marks off Behr Paint... - Page 2

post #31 of 54
The only flat black paint I've been able to clean (or even touch with my finger) without burnishing is Ace Sensations with Scotchgaurd. I painted my whole screen wall with three or four different brands before discovering the Ace brand. Now, I can clean my screen wall with just a wet foam sponge and not leave it covered with streaks.
post #32 of 54
Well;
Earlier in this thread I spoke with the Behr rep, and they agreed my idea doing a "test" zone for comparison flat enamel vs eggshell vs satin. Based upon that review to buy (reimburse) me up to 5 gallons of paint, 2 gallons of flat poly (If I really-really want that), plus $30 in supplies - of course as long as it's Behr paint. They admit Behr does NOT make a true flat poly, so another brand is acceptable.

Here is my test patch painted last week, and dried for 7 days.
You can see where I painted Satin, Eggshell, and flat enamel (which my side walls had originally) on either side for comparison purposes
LH side wall direct shot

LH side wall from 2nd row:


Pictures "in movie mode", these taken while watching Star Wars I: The Phantom Menace with my 3 kids tonight, all on tripod w/o flash:
This taken with ISO 1600, LH most side of 2nd row


This taken with ISO 200, LH most side of 2nd row


This taken with ISO 800 (1600 too washed out/noisy pict), RH most side of 2nd row


This taken with ISO 200, RH most side of 2nd row



Definitely glad I did this test, Satin does have too much sheen and reflects more light than I suspected, Eggshell is on the border of acceptable tradeoff sheen/reflecting light vs more durable than Flat Enamel.

Hopefully this little test/picts posted helps others:
a) I'd say never choose Satin for your side walls in a Home Theater, too much sheen/reflection
b) Even eggshell reflects more than I thought, YMMV is you choose eggshell for side walls. Since I'm going to put acoustic treatments at 1st reflection points, 2 panels/side wall, most likely I'm going with Eggshell.
You people who do the full acoustic treatments floor/ceiling obviously don't have this problem (I realize you stop the 703 @ ear height and above that is cotton batting behind the GOM).
c) Obviously flat for ceiling is best, just be careful about touching it afterward
d) Be VERY CAREFUL when you clean your walls

Others in this thread seem to have success with flat/flat enamel in other brands, so my choices are:
1) Stick with Behr, have them pay me for their paint brand re-painting (materials, not labor)
2) Go with another brand, pay from my own pocket

Most likely, I'm going with choice 1) at least $100 I'll "save", and I learned the cleaning issue the hard way.
post #33 of 54
Anytime you use a flat paint on a surface like drywall or a piece of wood, its not going to be easy keeping it clean. Everything just sticks to it and stays. Especially dark colors...good luck
post #34 of 54
Thanks for the comparison pictures, they really help. I painted my walls behr satin burgundy and never noticed the reflection until you just mentioned it. Although, I have about 33" from screen edge to wall, so perhaps my reflection point is farther back? It really doesn't bother me enough (right now) to repaint. Perhaps I'll paint over it with eggshell someday.
post #35 of 54
Maybe I misised this part of the discussion earlier, but do recessed screens have this issue as well? Wouldn't the shadow box cut down on the reflections?
post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

Maybe I misised this part of the discussion earlier, but do recessed screens have this issue as well? Wouldn't the shadow box cut down on the reflections?

Good Q and not really discussed in this thread, while taking pictures I was actually surprised at how much light was reflected onto the side/ceiling walls (mine is DIY DW laminate), that reinforced in my mind the need to have non-reflecting surface there (as much as possible) to help with the HT image viewing.

I'd say recessed screens would cut down on the reflection per a straight line from the edge of the recess to the screen as seen from side. Also the screen experts would probably say some technical stuff like the angle of reflectivity in the screen itself (granules/etc??) and technical make-up does make a diff, so some commercial screens might reflect more light back to the user vs DIY paint mixes/laminate (mine)/etc that scatter some to the sides/non viewing direction as much.
I'm guessing here, Tyrg/MM have much more expertise respectively for that answer.
post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

Maybe I misised this part of the discussion earlier, but do recessed screens have this issue as well? Wouldn't the shadow box cut down on the reflections?

I built fabric covered panels to frame in my screen. They stick out almost 1" past the screen. It definately makes the screen look nicer and probably cuts down on some stray light, but not much. The reflection point is about half the distance to the seating, so it's far enough onto the peripheral vision that it doesn't bother me too much. When I get a chance maybe I'll post some pics.
post #38 of 54
After having the different sheen samples on the wall for 1+ week I've decided against satin AND eggshell as having too much reflection off them.

There is a Sherwin-Williams store nearby, I spoke with them about my "situation", based on their advice I'm going Flat (Behr from HD), not Flat Matte, and then will apply Modern Masters "Dead Flat Varnish" from Sherwin-Williams
http://www.modernmasters.com/product...prod=02&pl=DPC

Flat paint for minimum reflection and the varnish for protection.
If I'm putting painters tape/cloth for protection, might as well just cover the paint with the flat varnish.

This stuff is not cheap, $20/quart = $80/gallon, coverage is 87 - 112 sq ft/quart.
I'll need 6 quarts, $120, glad Behr is paying.

Here is link to pdf file for tech details of their "Decorative Painter's Dead Flat Varnish, Protective Sealer for Interior Faux and Decorative Paint Finishes"
http://www.modernmasters.com/pdf/DPDFVTDS2003.PDF

Will re-paint tomorrow afternoon/evening, apply the varnish this weekend.
I'll take some pics and post for sharing afterward.


The Sherwin-Williams store rep understands the burnishing issue and said they've had very good success with customers looking for dark color flat/flat matte using their "Duration Home" line-up.
post #39 of 54
After painting 2 1/4 of the 4 gallons on the walls last weekend (flat paint), then drying for 3 days, I applied the "dead flat varnish" yesterday and tonight.



When you cut in the wall boundaries it runs a bit, quickly take the 1/4 thick roller and feather it out.



Then, apply to wall surface, not to hard to learn the technique, just the thin nature of the product takes getting use to.
Goes on milky, drys clear.
The store rep told me be careful of applying multiple coatings, that will build up a sheen, I only applied 1 coat. Looks alright on the dried walls I did yesterday.


Of course my kids gotta watch/ask dad "when will you be done so we can play Lego Star Wars?"


Sat job:
re-install wall plates/HVAC grilles, re-install surround speakers, re-install 2 chairs.
Then, enjoy the re-done HT, we are having 5 families Sat 3/7 4pm over for a "Star Wars" themed party, so that was my "push" to get done.
post #40 of 54
Boy, I wish I'd found this thread a couple of weeks ago.

Two weeks ago my Home Theater room was painted with Behr Flat burgandy (velvety merlot) and the front wall and ceiling with flat black. I haven't even been actively using the room yet and already I have some very large and noticeable burnish marks (prob. the cleaners and cabinet guys). If I even gently rub the wall myself, the problem is very apparent.

After some internet research, my conclusion is that this is common with flat paints. However, as another poster commented, how the **** can Behr put "superior scrubability" on the can/in their brochures? There is no, zero, none, zilch scrubability to this paint!"

A few questions for those more in the know if I may:
1) A couple of posters had commented they had to repaint the entire room; forgive my ignorance (I paid someone to paint; never done it myself), but why couldn't you just repaint the selected areas? If it's from the same can of paint, wouldn't it blend in perfectly? Or is the issue there's now a extra coat in one or two spots and that would show?
2) Someone mentioned Ace Flat Sensations paint as not having this problem. Could I just add one coat of this in the same color to remedy the problem (obviously the whole room would need to be repainted)? Would I need to add more than one coat for some reason?

I will be calling Behr to try to get a refund on the paint. The extra labor I just have to eat I guess (grrrrr....)

Just another example of needing to be an expert on everything...
post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscic View Post

Boy, I wish I'd found this thread a couple of weeks ago.

Two weeks ago my Home Theater room was painted with Behr Flat burgandy (velvety merlot) and the front wall and ceiling with flat black. I haven't even been actively using the room yet and already I have some very large and noticeable burnish marks (prob. the cleaners and cabinet guys). If I even gently rub the wall myself, the problem is very apparent.

After some internet research, my conclusion is that this is common with flat paints. However, as another poster commented, how the **** can Behr put "superior scrubability" on the can/in their brochures? There is no, zero, none, zilch scrubability to this paint!"

A few questions for those more in the know if I may:
1) A couple of posters had commented they had to repaint the entire room; forgive my ignorance (I paid someone to paint; never done it myself), but why couldn't you just repaint the selected areas? If it's from the same can of paint, wouldn't it blend in perfectly? Or is the issue there's now a extra coat in one or two spots and that would show?
2) Someone mentioned Ace Flat Sensations paint as not having this problem. Could I just add one coat of this in the same color to remedy the problem (obviously the whole room would need to be repainted)? Would I need to add more than one coat for some reason?

I will be calling Behr to try to get a refund on the paint. The extra labor I just have to eat I guess (grrrrr....)

Just another example of needing to be an expert on everything...

You can touch up those spots, but the same thing will happen if you brush up against it again. I think the previous poster repainted the whole room with something different so it doesn't happen again. I myself did burgundy satin for the walls and flat black for the ceiling, so the walls are durable enough, they don't burnish. I do see light reflections on wall from the light of the screen, but to be honest I don't notice it unless I'm looking for it.

I contacted Behr and was under the impression they would reimburse me for the first two cans I bought. They ended up reimbursing me for one can only, so I can touchup I guess. Oh well.

I have a little extra of each can left so I can touchup spots, just haven't gotten to it yet. Too busy enjoying movies and games!
post #42 of 54
mtb -

Any update on the results of the dead flat varnish?
post #43 of 54
I'm the guy who mentioned the Ace Sensations paint. I just rolled it on over the other paint without any other prep work. I figured the burnished paint didn't have any contaminates on it yet since, at that point, it was only a couple of weeks old.
post #44 of 54
I used Behr Flat enamel (RL's Mickey Mouse black and Behr's dark blue - can't recall the exact name) - and did have a couple situations where I rubbed up against it...

YMMV of course, but I used a microfiber cloth and Sprayway glass cleaner (very light coating) to clean okay. Sprayway is pretty safe, no alcohol.
post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blato View Post

I'm the guy who mentioned the Ace Sensations paint. I just rolled it on over the other paint without any other prep work. I figured the burnished paint didn't have any contaminates on it yet since, at that point, it was only a couple of weeks old.

Thanks Blato. I stopped by Ace during lunch to discuss this paint and some others with the paint guy there. He said Behr was poor paint (although he is likely to be biased since they don't sell it) and Benjamin Moore paint wouldn't do that (burnish), nor would the Ace Sensations paint. He also showed me some higher-end Graham paint, which he said would be the best (it's got "ceramic microspheres"). He said the others will work fine too, but for a another $25-$50 on the job I'm inclined to use this stuff for a final coat.

I'm going to call Behr later tonight. Unless they have a good solution I'm going to ask for my money back for their paint. Hope the contractor saved the receipts. I just can't get over how ridiculous the Behr paint is.
post #46 of 54
Update: I called Behr tech support last night. The net of it was they say it needs to "cure" for 30 days, esp. since it's in the basement and not much airflow at all down there.

Now, the rep said it was supposed to be 30 days until you could wash it (and indeed the can says 4 weeks), not just gently touch or rub it... she seemed surprised that I was getting that degree of burnishing after 2.5 wks from light rubbing. So I'm not sure if what they're saying is right, or if I should be back at my original conclusion that Behr paint is crud. They did offer me a free can for another coat, which now is definitely needed, esp. since I couldn't help myself and now there are many chalked up spots.

Anyway, since I am paying someone to paint, I think I am going to just have them put a new coat of Graham paint on there. I really can't have them do another coat or Behr now and then have to pay them again if what Behr is telling me doesn't pan out (even assuming I could keep the walls pretty much untouched for 30 days).

I really should learn to paint myself.
post #47 of 54
Interesting thread. I have Behr paint in my HT; eggshell on the walls and flat on the ceiling. I did notice the flat burnishing easily. As other posters have mentioned, I just touch up any area, and even with all the lights on it's hard to pick out the repainted areas. The walls (eggshell) have had no burnishing problems.

I will try one of the recommended brands if I ever do this type of thing again. Thanks to those who posted.



Tan: Brown Tepee # 700D-4 Eggshell
Red: Toasted Chestnut # 240-F6 Eggshell
Black: Black Suede # S-H-790 Eggshell walls, flat ceiling,
post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post

mtb -

Any update on the results of the dead flat varnish?

Hey guys, I missed this thread activity.

Tom;
dead flat varnish 100% solved my issue.
I am "satisfied" now, of course took extra work/effort on my part.
Wall's are now "flat" and durable.

I actually just did the paperwork last night to get reimbursed from Behr for my paint/varnish/materials.
post #49 of 54
Another update:
My HT was repainted 2-3 months ago now with some fancy latex-based paint for the front wall (black) and a high-end Sherman Williams paint for the walls (burgandy). They BOTH still burnish easily. My conclusion: any dark flat paint will burnish easily. Period. I can't believe all these paint manufacturers sell these products without warnings.
post #50 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by dthibode View Post


The issues I've had with the paint I would say is minor compared to yours as I used a satin finish for the walls and that doesn't burnish. I'm happy that Behr will stand by their product.

We just repainted a lot of our house as I just moved in a month ago. Lots of Satin everywhere where children will be because it cleans up nicely. Eggshell in other places where traffic or fingerprints aren't common. Flat for baseboards. This combination seems to work for us around the house. All Behr paint.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread when it is time to build the theater.
post #51 of 54
BEHR paint always reminds of the time we had a painter paint a couple of our rooms and rather than pronouncing it as "BEAR" paint he called it "BURR" paint. LOL. He musta been a hillbilly. Sorry, I just had to share that.
post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscic View Post

Another update:
My HT was repainted 2-3 months ago now with some fancy latex-based paint for the front wall (black) and a high-end Sherman Williams paint for the walls (burgandy). They BOTH still burnish easily. My conclusion: any dark flat paint will burnish easily. Period. I can't believe all these paint manufacturers sell these products without warnings.

I was told that red paints have a clear base and black/blue paint has a white base. So, when I painted the walls burgundy I did two coats of dark primer and used satin burgundy, both behr, no burnishing at all and it's very durable. For the ceilings I used the same two coats of dark primer and used flat behr paint and get burnishing like crazy. Nothing you can really do except paint over it again, or use the stuff mentioned above (dead flat varnish) as a top coat.

I'm cheap so I just find that for the few times I touch the black and narf it up I just paint over it. no biggee.
post #53 of 54
Just wanted to give some quick feedback.

Thank you to those who suggested Pledge on a black tee-shirt for cleaning dust off of dark walls. I have dark blue walls (Benjamin Moore) in my media room and the dust streaks were threatening to take over the planet - resisting all efforts to defeat them.

Well the Pledge did the trick. It's not perfect yet, but I'm going to try some different texture rags to fine-tune it. In the mean time, I'm probably the only that can see the dust now.

Thanks and I heartily recommend this approach.

-Dan
post #54 of 54
I used to own a painting company and still do a bit of it on the side. Hands down Benjamin Moore is the best mass produced paint out there. The problem is that they know it and charge accordingly. I have been using the Sherwin Williams Duration line lately and I have to report that so far I like it a lot. It has a lot of solids, very low VOC's and covers extremely well. It has so many solids that it can't go all the way to flat. The closest you can get is the matte finish. Just a touch of sheen but barely noticeable.
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