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Master Vudu discussion - place to talk about your Vudu experience - Page 55

post #1621 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

When I use VUDU, I exclusively rent HDX format. I've noticed on a number of older catalog titles that aren't available on Blu-ray (most recently Bad Influence) that the signal comes through at 1080p at 60 Hz, not 24 fps. Newer titles, especially those also available on Blu-ray, will come through as 1080p24.

What do you mean "come through"? Emerge from your device? My guess is that they're streaming 30 fps or 24 fps and your device is outputting 60 fps if it receives 30 fps. Again, just a guess--I don't know for sure. Netflix has stated that they stream shot-to-video content at 30 fps.
post #1622 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

When I use VUDU, I exclusively rent HDX format. I've noticed on a number of older catalog titles that aren't available on Blu-ray (most recently Bad Influence) that the signal comes through at 1080p at 60 Hz, not 24 fps. Newer titles, especially those also available on Blu-ray, will come through as 1080p24.

This seems odd to me. 1080p60 requires more bandwidth to stream, and well as adding 3:2 Pulldown, and offers no benefit at all.

I'm wondering if these files have been deinterlaced from 1080i sources, or (even worse) upconverted from 720p. Does anyone have more info on this?

The VUDU encodes are in 480P24, 720P24 and 1080P24(maybe there are xxxp30 encodes too). Depending on your box and content it will output at 1080P24 or 1080P60. As well as 720p60 and 480P60.
post #1623 of 1923
I'm using an OPPO BDP-93 Blu-ray player, connected to a Lumagen Radiance processor, connected to my projector. The Lumagen reports receiving a 1080p signal at 59.94 Hz on some VUDU HDX movies. Blu-rays on the same player will register as 1080p at 23.98 Hz in the Lumagen.

Perhaps the OPPO player will not output 24 fps for VUDU and forcibly applies 3:2 Pulldown, but I'm pretty sure that newer movies I've streamed report as 23.98 Hz in the Lumagen.
post #1624 of 1923
I don't think I've ever received a 24P HDX Vudu movie. My Anthem D2 always reports receiving 59.94. This is through a Panasonic BDP310. Blu-ray movies output 24P through the same player.
post #1625 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Perhaps the OPPO player will not output 24 fps for VUDU and forcibly applies 3:2 Pulldown, but I'm pretty sure that newer movies I've streamed report as 23.98 Hz in the Lumagen.

I also asked this question in the BDP-93 thread in the Blu-ray Players forum. Someone there tested the "2-minute previews" for a few new releases on VUDU, and found them to output as 1080p60 as well. I may be mis-remembering ever getting 1080p24 from VUDU, or I may have been using another device at the time.

At this point, I believe that the Blu-ray player is disabling 24 fps output for VUDU and adding 3:2 Pulldown. I can't imagine that VUDU is streaming these from the source at 60 Hz. There's just no reason to waste that bandwidth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

I don't think I've ever received a 24P HDX Vudu movie. My Anthem D2 always reports receiving 59.94. This is through a Panasonic BDP310. Blu-ray movies output 24P through the same player.

Can anyone confirm receiving VUDU at 24fps on any other device?
post #1626 of 1923
I only output my VUDU movies at 1080P24 from any of my VUDU enabled devices. But that is a setting I select in each device. VUDU reps have said in the past that their encodes are 480P24, 720P24, and 1080P24.

EDIT: I guess I can't count my 360s in that 1080P24 statement(and my PS3 is the last device I want to use for VUDU), But I also don't plan on using the 360 for my VUDU titles until they enable HDX content.
post #1627 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I only output my VUDU movies at 1080P24 from any of my VUDU enabled devices. But that is a setting I select in each device. VUDU reps have said in the past that their encodes are 480P24, 720P24, and 1080P24.

Which devices?

Quote:


EDIT: I guess I can't count my 360s in that 1080P24 statement(and my PS3 is the last device I want to use for VUDU), But I also don't plan on using the 360 for my VUDU titles until they enable HDX content.

I fired up my PS3 last night and tested the "2 Min. Preview" for Rise of the Planet of the Apes. It also output at 60 Hz, not 24 fps.
post #1628 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Which devices?



I fired up my PS3 last night and tested the "2 Min. Preview" for Rise of the Planet of the Apes. It also output at 60 Hz, not 24 fps.

The PS3 won't output at 1080P24 from VUDU. It's something they need to fix.(if I remember correctly, but I also have not messed with my PS3 in a while. It is my last choice to use for viewing content)

I know my Boxee Boxes will output 1080P24, my LG BD player, and my old VUDU BX100 boxes too
post #1629 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

The PS3 won't output at 1080P24 from VUDU. It's something they need to fix.(if I remember correctly, but I also have not messed with my PS3 in a while. It is my last choice to use for viewing content)

I know my Boxee Boxes will output 1080P24, my LG BD player, and my old VUDU BX100 boxes too

I asked OPPO about the frame rate issue, and they responded that it's a limitation of the Flash-based VUDU app in the player that it will only output at 60 Hz. The PS3 and some other player apps must have the same limitation.
post #1630 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

It's probably not VUDU's fault. They just run whatever transfer the studio gives them. In this case, Warner must have sent them the 16:9 reformatted transfer for cable broadcast, rather than the letterboxed home video transfer.

For what it's worth, Crazy Stupid Love has also been altered from 2.35:1 to 16:9 on VUDU. This is another Warner title, so something must be up with Warner Bros. providing non-OAR transfers.
post #1631 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

For what it's worth, Crazy Stupid Love has also been altered from 2.35:1 to 16:9 on VUDU.

I'm so puzzled by this. VUDU has positioned themselves not as an "all you can eat for $8" provider, but as someone who is offering a premium experience at a per-viewing price.

Must be the Wally-World influence. But to me it is VUDU's "fault" (not Warner), because ultimately VUDU is the company responsible for the "premium" experience at a premium price.
post #1632 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post

I'm so puzzled by this. VUDU has positioned themselves not as an "all you can eat for $8" provider, but as someone who is offering a premium experience at a per-viewing price.

Must be the Wally-World influence. But to me it is VUDU's "fault" (not Warner), because ultimately VUDU is the company responsible for the "premium" experience at a premium price.

It's only VUDU's fault if VUDU asked Warner to give them the 16:9 transfer (as, for example, HBO specifically requests 16:9 transfers from all of the studios). If VUDU asked for the standard OAR transfer and Warner gave them the 16:9 version anyway, there's nothing that VUDU can do about that, except not offer that movie for rental to their customers, which will of course hurt their bottom line.

I've already reached out to some of my contacts at VUDU to find out what's going on here.
post #1633 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I asked OPPO about the frame rate issue, and they responded that it's a limitation of the Flash-based VUDU app in the player that it will only output at 60 Hz. The PS3 and some other player apps must have the same limitation.

Hmm. I got a somewhat different response from Oppo today regarding the 60Hz/24Hz issue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oppo View Post

We convert 24Hz to 60Hz in the player. As for allowing for Source Direct (1080p/24Hz in and out) this is something that we are in discussions with VUDU, but it something that we can't guarantee will be added to a future firmware release.

And here's Vudu's take, also today:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vudu View Post

The 60hz conversion is most likely a setting on the player. Most HD devices allow you to adjust the refresh rate. The information I have found on the Oppo player suggests there is a problem with refresh rate when the player is manually set to 24hz and the refresh rate on the TV is set to 120hz.

I have followed both up seeking clarification.

Update from Oppo:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oppo View Post

This issue may be a requirement of our licensing with VUDU, may not be supported by the decoder, and/or is not supported by the Marvell QDEO. This is why we are discussing this issue with VUDU. If they say that we can do 1080p/24Hz, then we can begin working with MTK (the decoder manufacturer) and Marvell (the video processor supplier) to see how we can enable 24Hz Output for VUDU.

It makes absolutely no sense for Vudu to impose such a restriction--reducing the desirability of the service. If it does come from Vudu, it must be required by the content owners.
post #1634 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsarver View Post

It makes absolutely no sense for Vudu to impose such a restriction--reducing the desirability of the service. If it does come from Vudu, it must be required by the content owners.

Content owners don't give a crap what frame rate their movies are displayed at, if they even understand what that means in the first place (which is doubtful). The back-and-forth between OPPO and VUDU sounds like a lot of passing the buck. This is a technical issue with the VUDU app in these players, and nobody wants to claim responsibility for it.
post #1635 of 1923
Is anyone bothered by the black level in the Vudu 3D movies? I find it is WAY to high and washes out the picture, and I can't watch it. I do not have this issue with their 2D content, and all my other 3D content including broadcast and blu-rays does not have this issue either.
post #1636 of 1923
DD+ now bitstreams on WD TV Live. You can force 24p so there you go.
post #1637 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Is anyone bothered by the black level in the Vudu 3D movies? I find it is WAY to high and washes out the picture, and I can't watch it. I do not have this issue with their 2D content, and all my other 3D content including broadcast and blu-rays does not have this issue either.

This appears that this may be an issue specific to playback on the Samsung PN63C8000 plasma and similar models. Is anyone successfully playing back 3D on this or similar Samsung while having their normally inky black levels or are you seeing elevated blacks?
post #1638 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Content owners don't give a crap what frame rate their movies are displayed at, if they even understand what that means in the first place (which is doubtful). The back-and-forth between OPPO and VUDU sounds like a lot of passing the buck. This is a technical issue with the VUDU app in these players, and nobody wants to claim responsibility for it.

I was just anticipating the usual excuse: "The studios made us do it."
post #1639 of 1923
I've told the story on this forum before but once when I rented an indie film on DVD I was perplexed why the film was cropped 4:3 and the extras widescreen. I wrote the distributor and was surprised to quickly get a reply back from the DVD producer saying that the studio gave them the movie file and the director supplied the extras. That's how screwball this gets.
post #1640 of 1923
Not sure if this is the best thread to put this in but I signed up for vudu last night because my panasonic DMP-BDT110P says it supports it.

So, i logged in on the panasonic 110 and did the "test" connection thing. It said my connection was OK to use the HDX (or whatever the highest option is). Since my wife was watching a "chic flick" type movie I just chose regular HD. Into the movie it kept buffering so much that it gave a message saying it had to switch to SD.

Maybe comcast was having a bad night but I can't imagine what the issue was. Nothing else was using my internet connection. Anything else I can look at before I try again?
post #1641 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by de8212 View Post

Not sure if this is the best thread to put this in but I signed up for vudu last night because my panasonic DMP-BDT110P says it supports it.

So, i logged in on the panasonic 110 and did the "test" connection thing. It said my connection was OK to use the HDX (or whatever the highest option is). Since my wife was watching a "chic flick" type movie I just chose regular HD. Into the movie it kept buffering so much that it gave a message saying it had to switch to SD.

Maybe comcast was having a bad night but I can't imagine what the issue was. Nothing else was using my internet connection. Anything else I can look at before I try again?

Sounds somewhat similar to my Panasonic BD75 player experience with VUDU last month.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21361034

Maybe it's a Panasonic thing. After my initial VUDU visit I haven't been back to their website, but now that I have added a WD TV Live streamer perhaps I'll retry their service since I still have a $10 credit there. Other people with Comcast don't seem to have a problem with VUDU but may have a different device. My internet provider is TW Roadrunner.
post #1642 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by de8212 View Post

Not sure if this is the best thread to put this in but I signed up for vudu last night because my panasonic DMP-BDT110P says it supports it.

So, i logged in on the panasonic 110 and did the "test" connection thing. It said my connection was OK to use the HDX (or whatever the highest option is). Since my wife was watching a "chic flick" type movie I just chose regular HD. Into the movie it kept buffering so much that it gave a message saying it had to switch to SD.

Maybe comcast was having a bad night but I can't imagine what the issue was. Nothing else was using my internet connection. Anything else I can look at before I try again?

On occasion, it helps to "shut down" your CABLE modem and wait 30 secs and then turn it back on a few minutes before you begin viewing. Seems to clear the transmission, but not a guaranteed fix, just a possible help.
post #1643 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by de8212 View Post

Maybe comcast was having a bad night but I can't imagine what the issue was. Nothing else was using my internet connection. Anything else I can look at before I try again?

Well, it was a Friday night; other than common holiday vacation periods (like the Christmas break), weekend nights is when I'd expect the heaviest use of local network resources and VUDU's servers to happen.
post #1644 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

The PS3 won't output at 1080P24 from VUDU. It's something they need to fix.(if I remember correctly, but I also have not messed with my PS3 in a while. It is my last choice to use for viewing content)

I know my Boxee Boxes will output 1080P24, my LG BD player, and my old VUDU BX100 boxes too

I selected 24p output for my WDTV Live Hub with VUDU and it shows in my BenQ projector info dialog as 24p
post #1645 of 1923
A few pages back, I complained about the audio compression on Vudu. Here's a visual analysis.
This is from the most recent HDX movie that I rented, where I could hear severe compression artifacts. There's nothing above 14000:

By comparison, here's a 192kbps MP3.

That one hovers between 14000 and 16000. Granted, they're two different codecs but they are still similarly compressed and have horrible sound quality.

Vudu SERIOUSLY needs to step up their audio game or stop trying to promote their aural qualities. They're clearly compromising to deliver better visuals.
post #1646 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalfreakNYC View Post

Vudu SERIOUSLY needs to step up their audio game or stop trying to promote their aural qualities.

Whenever I read complaints about Vudu, I immediately think Wal-Mart!

Can anyone "in the know" comment on the relationship between Vudu and its parent? I wonder if the (presumed) morons at Wal-Mart can't resist meddling and screwing things up?
post #1647 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Gremlin View Post

Whenever I read complaints about Vudu, I immediately think Wal-Mart!

Can anyone "in the know" comment on the relationship between Vudu and its parent? I wonder if the (presumed) morons at Wal-Mart can't resist meddling and screwing things up?

SInce Walmart bought VUDU, they have expanded into many more devices than I thought was possible in a short time. Overall, Walmart buying VUDU has been a good thing. They have more content than ever before.

But with the issue of overcompression, how many titles have people noticed this on? They have over 20K titles. Every streaming service in exisitence has issues with a certain number of their titles, and VUDU has never been an excpetion. VUDU in the past has been very good about fixing encoding issues when they had major problems. Of course it has to be brought to their attention.

What was the title that had overly compressed audio? I have several free dollars in credits that will expire in a few days. I can use them to check the title out.
post #1648 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

SInce Walmart bought VUDU, they have expanded into many more devices than I thought was possible in a short time. Overall, Walmart buying VUDU has been a good thing. They have more content than ever before.

But with the issue of overcompression, how many titles have people noticed this on? They have over 20K titles. Every streaming service in exisitence has issues with a certain number of their titles, and VUDU has never been an excpetion. VUDU in the past has been very good about fixing encoding issues when they had major problems. Of course it has to be brought to their attention.

What was the title that had overly compressed audio? I have several free dollars in credits that will expire in a few days. I can use them to check the title out.

EVERY SINGLE TITLE that had 5.1 audio had bad compression. It's not prevalent with one studio over another. It's all of them. If you get a stereo soundtrack, it's much better.

Return to Paradise 5.1
Little Manhattan 2.0
Masters of the Universe 2.0
Summer School 5.1
He Said She Said 5.1
Live Free Or Die hard 5.1
Dolores Claiborne 2.0
Grosse Pointe Blank 5.1

I've captured all of them so I'm more than happy to post multiple screenshots.

FWIW, I'm not streaming. I'm actually downloading to one of the Vudu boxes.
post #1649 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalfreakNYC View Post

EVERY SINGLE TITLE that had 5.1 audio had bad compression. It's not prevalent with one studio over another. It's all of them. If you get a stereo soundtrack, it's much better.

Return to Paradise 5.1
Little Manhattan 2.0
Masters of the Universe 2.0
Summer School 5.1
He Said She Said 5.1
Live Free Or Die hard 5.1
Dolores Claiborne 2.0
Grosse Pointe Blank 5.1

I've captured all of them so I'm more than happy to post multiple screenshots.

FWIW, I'm not streaming. I'm actually downloading to one of the Vudu boxes.

This is why I use VUDU strictly for dialogue based movies/dramas, documentaries, most comedies and other movies where sound is not a significant aspect or surround sound use is limited. However, for action, fantasy, thrillers, horror, pixar (and other animated titles), I use the disc rented from blockbuster.

In my view, until audio is streamed unimpeded and equivalent to blu-ray disc audio, VUDU is strictly for stuff like (looking at recent releases): "The Help", "Hangover Part II" and "Midnight in Paris".

I don't have a 7.1 dedicated theater in order to play movies with restricted audio. In fact, I would rather have 720p and full blu-ray type audio, than 1080p and restricted audio.

Sound is an integral part of the movie experience. VUDU needs to realize that.
post #1650 of 1923
Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar1 View Post

This is why I use VUDU strictly for dialogue based movies/dramas, documentaries, most comedies and other movies where sound is not a significant aspect or surround sound use is limited. However, for action, fantasy, thrillers, horror, pixar (and other animated titles), I use the disc rented from blockbuster.

In my view, until audio is streamed unimpeded and equivalent to blu-ray disc audio, VUDU is strictly for stuff like (looking at recent releases): "The Help", "Hangover Part II" and "Midnight in Paris".

I don't have a 7.1 dedicated theater in order to play movies with restricted audio. In fact, I would rather have 720p and full blu-ray type audio, than 1080p and restricted audio.

Sound is an integral part of the movie experience. VUDU needs to realize that.

and with titles like Hangover 2 we aren't even getting OAR.

it's been a while, but when i rented Inception, the DD 5.1 was insanely compressed and the surround info wasn't even coming out of the right channels...
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