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Trying to set up an old TV is destroying my life

post #1 of 14
11/4/08 at 5:26pm
Thread Starter 
Okay, here's the deal. In our recent renovation we bought two Mac minis, and a new Sony Bravia wall mounted tv. One mac mini happily sends out a signal through DVI-HDMI into the new tv.

The problem is the older sony TV we have. It's a rear projection LCD TV, model KF-WE50S1. When we first hooked it up we had a DVI to component cable, but it wasn't happy displaying the image at all. I can't think of the best way to describe, but it basically was 'out of tune', showing lots of stripey flashes of the screen that looked like you needed to give it a good bump and it would tune in. I know that's a terrible description but better words elude me. We figured that we needed a proper transcoder to convert the signal. We've now got one, but it's made no difference. I can see the mac desktop amongst the image, but it's not resolving into a steady picture.

I've tried fiddling with Switch Res X, but without a steady image it's impossible to really do anything. I set up an Automator process to export the EDID:

Quote:


DDC block report generated by SwitchResX for display
DV191

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F
-----------------------------------------------------
0 | 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 00 00 91 98 00 00 00 00
1 | 0A 0A 01 01 0C 1E 17 BE E8 2D C9 A0 57 47 98 27
2 | 12 48 4C 00 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
3 | 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
4 | 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
5 | 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
6 | 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
7 | 01 01 01 01 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F7

-----------------------------------------------------
Valid DDC block: checksum passed

EDID Version........1.1
Manufacturer........@@@
Product Code........37272 (9198) (9891)
Serial Number.......0

Manufactured........Week 10 of year 2000
Max H Size..........30 cm
Max V Size..........23 cm
Gamma...............2.90

DPMS Supported Features:
------------------------
Active off Suspend Standby

Display type:
-------------
RGB color display


Input signal & sync:
--------------------
Analog input with: 0.700V / 0.300V
Separate Sync
Composite Sync


Color info:
------------
Red x = 0.625 Green x = 0.280 Blue x = 0.155 White x = 0.283
Red y = 0.342 Green y = 0.595 Blue y = 0.070 White y = 0.298

Established Timings:
--------------------

Manufacturer Reserved Timings:
------------------------------

Standard Timing Identification:
-------------------------------

Monitor Description blocks:
---------------------------
Descriptor #0 is Empty descriptor

Descriptor #1 is Empty descriptor

Descriptor #2 is Empty descriptor

Descriptor #3 is Empty descriptor

But I'm a bit out of my depth and it looks like it's not able to provide any useful information.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 14
11/4/08 at 7:54pm
You problem isn't the mac mini. Test this by swapping the mini's around and seeing if the same issue followes the mini in question or stays with the TV.

To me it sounds like a possible Handshaking Issue. With out know how old your old Sony is I cant say for sure. More likely its a refresh rate issue. The mini is pushing a faster refresh rate than what the TV can handle.

Try screen sharing between the two mini's and adjust your screen settings that way. Using the other mini and simply sharing the screens. that way you can control one mini using the other mini. Okay that sounds confusing. Call the mini on new projecter mini-a and the other one mini-2.

Share Mini-2 screen on Mini-1, essentially taking control of mini-2 through mini-1 then you can adjust your settings that way. It would be better if you had a MB or PB laptop to do this, that way you can immediatly see your changes other than having to run up or downstairs all the time. Adjust your refresh rate down on Mini-2 and see if that brings the screen into set. Dont worry about Switchresx until you have a stable screen. When you get a stable screen then start playing with SwitchresX to make it fit onto the tv.
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post #3 of 14
11/4/08 at 8:13pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for replying! I have a Powerbook G4 on Tiger, I'll investigate how to screen share and then see what I can do.
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post #4 of 14
11/4/08 at 10:06pm
Thread Starter 
You sir, are a god among men. I used iChat to screen share, then fiddled with resolutions, running backwards and forwards between the rooms until one worked. I think the problem was the refresh rate - I needed to pick one that worked for a PAL TV.

Okay, so now I have a steady image. The new, less troubling problem, is that the edges of the screen are cut off. I presume this is where SwitchResX comes in, right? And something about Overscan? I've been fidding with the preferences, but SRX is a rather unfriendly program to use.
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post #5 of 14
11/5/08 at 3:26am
Thread Starter 
I spent hours fiddling in SwitchResX trying to get my custom resolutions to display, with no avail. The answer turned out to be that you have to turn overscan ON. Then they appear and you can start the long trial and error process of getting it just right. Although for some reason my image is very slightly crooked, being too low on the top right and too low on the bottom left, it is near perfect and after spending hours on it today, I'm happy with it.

Thanks for the help, guys.
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post #6 of 14
11/5/08 at 12:18pm
Yeah turn overscan off. That will bring the entire screen into view, however, might make a one inch border around your screen on the TV.

The switchresx will be LOOOONG process unless you can find the settings somebody else used. The offset picture is a common problem among all rear projections. If you slightly pull the top right corner or push on it, it will come into view. I ended up placing a metal bar inside on the cabinet to hold the TV in place.

Not sure about screen sharing in Tiger, but you found a resolution. In Leopard if you open up finder, and your two computers are shared in the preferances when you highlight the computer you want to screen share there will be an option to screen share. I love this tool, has become invaluable in my setup. I really dont even use my bluetooth dinovo keyboard anymore to control my HTPC, I just open up my PB, screenshare and go that way. Its also great when the wife is having a problem on her PB, I screen share into hers and fix it. LOVE SCREEN SHARE. Its the best. Good luck on the rest.
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post #7 of 14
11/5/08 at 5:19pm
Thread Starter 
Hmm... I had to do it the other way - I had to turn ON overscan in the display control panel before my custom resolutions appeared.

Can you please elaborate on the metal bar tip a bit, I'm not sure what you're saying?

And yep, I'm pretty sure I'm the only person who has ever tried to hook up a KF-WE50S1 to a Mac Mini, because there was no information anywhere, and I had to do it painstakingly by trial and error.
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post #8 of 14
11/6/08 at 7:49am
I took a piece of barstock and wedged it inside the cabinet to help push the top right corner forward a bit. Works for now, just have to remember its there, if/when I move the TV or change the bulbs on it.

I had to turn Overscan off to bring the screen into view. All TV's are different. I still haven't figured out my switchres settings either. I have it sized horizontally perfect, but cant get the vertical brought in. I am looking to upgrade to the Nvidia card sometime soon, maybe then it might work out a bit better, I dont know. But for know I am happy with it. When I had my Windows box everything looked great, but nothing quit worked right. Now with the Mac Pro, everything works perfect and worry free, so the screen stretch is minor issue for me.
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post #9 of 14
11/6/08 at 8:01am
Thread Starter 
Nope, still not following! My issue is that the image produced by the Mac mini on the screen is ever so slightly crooked, with the top right and bottom left of the screen showing a small sliver of black. Normal television signals sit square and fill the entire space. I don't understand why it is a physical problem requiring the set to be opened?
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post #10 of 14
11/6/08 at 4:05pm
I honestly dont know why it is what it is. I just know that it is what it is. I am assuming you have a new type rear projection? DLP or led lamp? Mine is a Samsung DLP rear, very small cabinet, TV weighs maybe about 50lbs total. I didn't have to open the TV completely. Just the Access panels on the side of the TV. The panels that you can open to change the bulbs or clean the mirror.
On the very edge of the TV I just took some bar stock to slightly push the top right corner out about an inch to bring the picture into total view.

In more recent models I know samsung has fixed this issue with the flexing screen, and my buddies 60" bravia doesn't have the issue. However another friends older model Bravia has the same issue. I think he just propped a dowel rod behind the TV since it is enclosed in a Entertainment center. Like I said I don't know. I just know that it is what it is. Try pulling on the corners of your screen and you will see the Screen come into view. Dont do it hard. Just enough to push or pull either corner out about an inch.

The only other way to fix the issue, would be to pull the back out and adjust the mirror screws on the projector itself. Tried that, but ended up when watching TV having a slight reflection or over-projection on the screen. Placing a metal bar in the cabinet to "Push" the top right corner out seemed to be the best all-around fix.
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post #11 of 14
11/6/08 at 5:50pm
Thread Starter 
Nope. It's an old Sony rear projection LCD TV, model KF-WE50S1. I don't get why I need to do it when all other images display fine?
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post #12 of 14
11/7/08 at 2:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nshady View Post

I don't get why I need to do it when all other images display fine?

TV sets are optimised for television broadcasts and computer monitors are optimised for computers. Especially older sets like yours are much more difficult to adapt.
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post #13 of 14
11/7/08 at 6:54am
Thread Starter 
Hmm, okay, I'll investigate if it starts to bug me. I'm happy with it now, though, so I don't think I'll crack open the set just yet.

Thanks again for all your help guys.
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post #14 of 14
11/7/08 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nshady View Post

Nope, still not following! My issue is that the image produced by the Mac mini on the screen is ever so slightly crooked, with the top right and bottom left of the screen showing a small sliver of black. Normal television signals sit square and fill the entire space. I don't understand why it is a physical problem requiring the set to be opened?

Normal TV signals have a notable amount of overscan, which is why it "appears" to fill the screen perfectly. In reality, there's a bunch of stuff off the edge of the screen that you don't see.

It took me quite a while to tweak DisplayConfigX to put a reasonable picture on my older, tube Mitsu RPTV, but after spending an entire evening playing with it, I'm fairly happy with the current results. I have a sliver of black on each side, and an inch or two of overscan top and bottom, but the picture is straight and centered, and probably as good as it's going to get until I replace the set with something with proper digital inputs instead of component.
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