The SONY BDP-S5000ES Owner's Thread - Page 70

gbaby,

Audyssey is great for movie soundtracks, especially the release of Audyssey MultEQ XT32. It provides so much more for movies than either the Oppo or the Sony. I use Audyssey for all things movie related, my Oppo BDP-95, for all things musical, the Sony 5000ES to switch things up for movies and a Yamaha DVD-S1800 as a back via HDMI for SACD and DVD-A playback. This combination works very nicely in my setup.


Willie

What I meant is that every review of the 5000ES never focused on the analog outs but rather the picture performance and measurements through HDMI. Anyway you are right, I should have preference my comments with "in my setup."

You may have commented on this in earlier post, but what is your processor pre-amp or receiver you are using, and how is the S5000ES connected? You might want to goggle modright as they have a $1,700.00 upgrade wherein they specifically mention about it sounding more like the Sony using
Sony as the point of refererence for sound. The Oppo BDP-95 downgraded the sound in my setup, but in every other way, it was better than the Sony.

I follow now. That is very odd that reviewers did not test the analog stage, since this would be a purchasing point for most who are interested in this unit. I couldn't imagine spending in this price range (MSRP) solely on the video attributes of any transport.


I am using a Denon AVR-A100 as my AVR. However, I do plan on using it as a preamp once I decide on amplification.

I tried both (BDP-95 and S5000ES) via the 2-channel (using the front left and right of the multi-channel input) and multi-channel analog via my Zektor MAS3 audio switch and preferred the BDP-95. My ears are probably more accustomed to the Sabre DACs as I previously owned an 83SE, which also featured Sabre DACs.

I think they are both great players depending on what sonic characteristics one prefers. I have no adjectives to describe what I hear between the two transports, but my ears are the final judge for my setup.

I finally got around to reading Kal Rubinson's review of the BDP-95 whose opinion I respect to the point that I would at least audition an item based on his comments. There are not too many reviewers that have this affect on me. However, the final proof is in my setup which may yield different results.

You have a very nice setup and I respect your preference for what works in your setup.


Respectfully,
Willie


Modwright quotes:

COMPARING SONY 5400ES W/TUBES TO OPP 95 WITH TUBES!
Both payers offer the same level of performance. Because of different DACs used and other differences in the players, there are subtle sonic nuances between them, but I would say that with the same tube circuit, it is really too close to call. They are BOTH excellent!

What I am hearing is typical of what we hear with the Sony XA-5400ES and other mods, vs. stock players

Unless I am not interpreting their statements correctly; the Modwright quotes only refer to modified players. They don't compare the stock 5400ES vs the stock 95. Also, all their comments on an individual basis seem to speak to stock versus mod for any specific transport. I personally am not a big fan of mods because I don't trust my ears to hear a difference or is it the placebo affect from spending the additional money. I personally have yet to read a comment from someone who has had their transport modified state that they hear NO difference or the improvement was only incremental. (lol)

You've got to get into separates before you can get all of the sonic info from the Sony 5400ES. I was like you for many years and owned receivers, but I gradually got in to separates and their seperate power supplies and cleaner analog stages in the pre/pros made a significant difference. Also, don't put too much emphais in "Sabre DACs" as there is more to sound than a D/A converter. Your sound is going to be no greater than its weaker link, and the Denon is your weekest link. If you are going to use a receiver, I strongly suggest you at least try to hear an Arcam as that is the lowest priced high end sound manufacturer that a regular person can afford. Their receivers and pre/pros don't even have a sound but make music disappear. Feature laiden products like Denon and Sony for that matter (receivers) cannot compete with products like Arcam which is an entry level audiophile oriented product. And, if you by happenstance find one, get it used if you can because none of this stuff has any monetary value and depreciates worst than a BMW. By the way it took me over 15 years to build a system that I am satisfied with to not want any more improvement. I thought the Oppo BDP-95 would improve on the sound, but it took me way back to my receiver days. Regarding Modright, I thought they were referring to a stock Sony XA5400ES; their statement is a little ambiguous. I have heard in the past that a modifier tried to improve on the 5400ES, but it was so well designed that they felt the modification was not an improvement so they left it alone. Regarding Kal Rubinson's reveiw of the 5400ES, it was he that convinced me to buy it based upon his article in a Stereophile magagine, and every sonic trait he described I eventually heard and agreed with. But, I was shocked when he reviewed the Oppo BDP-95 and urged audiophiles to try it. I was taken aback. Now, when I look at the folks who herald the 95, they mostly have receivers. There is one guy with an Anthem processor, but his processor does not have complete analog pass through as it processess the analog inputs and goes through an AD/DA conversion that further erodes the sound quality. Unfortunately, one cannot be honest about what they hear on these threads as some members either get offended or their judgement is compromised due to special incentives from manufacturers or even advertisement. I guess this is the American way. Lastly, don't even interpret my comments as bragging because my equipment is nothing compared to what a lot of more well healed individuals own. I just have audiophile oriented equipment for the common man.

Nice to see the thread revived. Sorry I missed the 5000s when they had some for sale - I'd like to have a third one!

It's truly an astounding device, especially at less than 500 bucks!

And agree, the analog outs are where it's at!

You have not missed the S5000ES when they had some for sale. Call the Sound Seller as they have a ton of them. I just ordered another one and it arrived two days later.

I wonder if Sony is going to come out with a new ES model like this one?

I think this is the last of the great sony flagship players.. they are focusing on biodegradable blu-ray players that are made out of recycled cans

I think you are right.

Anyway, it would have to to contain all modern features, inclusive 3D, wi-fi and HDMI 1.4.
Oppo next for me, I assume

This is going to be my last disc player. I am slowly converting my library to a computer, then to a media player. I expect my 5000 to last about 3-4 more years. By that time the media player market will be mature enough to use exclusively. As of now I don't want 3d, don't care about internal Internet options and am extemely happy with the 5000. My next upgrade is a replacement for my 777es receiver.

BDP-S5000ES have 7.1 dts master audio firmware uptade?

This exactly. I'm thrilled to death with my Dune D1/Synology DS1511+ combo. I was so obsessed with getting the perfect picture when Hi-def became available (I was in the HD-DVD camp btw) that I forgot how to just enjoy movies. Now just about anything 1080p is good enough (through the D2v and Pio Elite of course) to just sit back and enjoy instead of obsessing constantly over subtle improvements that only I could perceive. My Sony 5000 and OPPO 93 are seeing very little use now. And having all my movies and music instantly available is pretty sweet too.

What update?

Seems like about half the Blu-rays I rent freeze up on my 5000ES. I have the latest firmware installed. Any else having similar issues? I've not had any problems with purchased Blu-rays but the rentals don't appear to be scratched.

I haven't had any troubles and I rent quite a few discs from Netflix. Not sure what's causing your problem.

That's not good--your best hope before servicing is probably a lens cleaner, if you dare (not sure I trust those things, myself).

Huh, weird thing.

Did someone try to watch a DVD and the play function did not work properly? When "play movie" was selected on the DVD menu both lights (SBM and play) turned off and the main blue menu that is visible when turning on the player was shown again.

All the menus are working well when the DVD menu is visible again - but I still can't view the film. Not even from the scenes selection menu.

I recorded the movie once again but this time I removed the menus. The movie should start right after the disc is inserted but the lights came off and the blue startup menu was there again.

It seems to be working well on other players. This is the only disc that is causing troubles.

Please be advised that a new generation of BD+ protection has arrived. The known titles that use the new generation are "X-MEN first class" and "Star Wars - the complete saga disc set". Check for firmware update.

I did not have to do anything. I must already have the needed firmware. I watched both movies with no problems.

Just another data point: I've lately been A/B'ing the 5K against the Sony XA-5400ES SACD player, which, in theory, should eat the lunch of the 5K. Guess what? It's not even close. The 5K has, hands down, better imaging, presence, and life on every disk I've played. As a matter of fact, the 5K's Redbook playback of SACD disks USUALLY sound better, overall, than the SACD playback through the XA. How's that for a wild turn of events, sports fans?
I'm starting to worry I've only got three of these...

How is that possible? The 5000ES does not support SACD and that was my biggest concern going into it(or finding out afterwards), my bad. Gary

Oops, you mean Redbook on hybrid discs. Sorry about that but yes I'd say that's very odd.

Yes, exactly. To elaborate, the SACD playback on the XA-5400ES beats the 5K's redbook in its bass reproduction, especially the mid-bass. The 5K's redbook playback of the same SACDs trumps the XA-5400ES in soundstage, presence, air, etc. And as far as comparing both as redbook players, I'm still experimenting with cables, etc., to try to find even one instance where the XA can equal the 5K in redbook playback, but it's not even close.

Edit: using two systems, same results. Components are Mon. Audio Silver RX8, Electrocompaniet 4.7, Parasound A21, Kimber cables, and the bookshelf RX1s with Electro ECI-3 integrated amp. Very revealing systems.

Interesting! Which outputs of the S5000ES (L-R / Multichannel L-R) and which of the XA5400ES (SE / Balanced) did you used to compare the two fine players?

I found the XA sounds a little better on RB. Both players thru the HDMI outputs.

I'm using the Stereo L/R outs of the S5K, but with the priority set for "multichannel." From what I can tell, that brings the MC dacs into play, rather than the "smoother" but less detailed analog output dacs. (If someone can clarify this, please do so - all I know is that unless I set the audio priority for "multichannel," the soundstage falls apart.) I'm using built-in decoders ONLY. No HDMI out for sound. I've tried the 5400 with both balanced and single ended inputs - no difference - the soundstage sux compared with the 5K. (Using Kimber Hero balanced interconnects).

If you are using he stereo outs on the S5000ES, you are using the D/A converter of the player's stereo not multichannel outs. With the multichannel you have to set a crossover frequency for low frequency output, but with stereo, there is no need for crossover as you are listening to the output with "full range" frequency response.

Well, I don't think that is correct. From what I've been able to figure out, when you set the audio priority for Multichannel, it sends the DAC signal to LR stereo outs that's identical to the Front Left and Right outs under the 5.1. So that means it's using the FL and FR outs of the multichannel dacs. I know this because I've set it for two channel stereo, thru the stereo outs, and the soundstage went to crap.
Anyway, it's a great, great, CD player.

Read the manual. If you are using the multichannel analog outs, you have to have sub. If you use the stereo analog outs, the full frequency range goes to the speakers. I bet the reason you think the S5000ES is better sounding than the XA-5400ES is that you are using both your left and right speakers and the sub on the S5000ES. If so, it is configured incorrectly. Are you mains (left and right) full range speakers? If not, then you cannot effectively take advantage of the analog outs on the XA-54000ES. I own both, too, and the XA-54000ES wins hands down for red book stereo. Incidentally, if you are using the analog outs on either player, whether in stereo or multichannel, you are using its D/A converter.

There are two separate DACs in the 5K. We hashed thru this about ten or fifteen pages ago...