Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro Official thread - Page 5

My 886 arrived late this afternoon. I couldn't get to seting it up until after 7pm. My initial impressions are that it's audio qualities are very good and better than I expected. It was also straightforward to setup. I have a couple minor HDMI hiccups now and then to work out, but no deal-breakers.

I am really looking forward to playing around with this thing. For the price it is just amazing on digital sources (I haven't tried anything analog yet).

I'll be back if i have any questions.

The system besides the 886 has a D-Sonic Magnum 1250-7, a DVDO Edge, an Algolith Flea, DirecTV tuner (H21-200), OTA digital HD tuner (old Sony SAT box), and Toshiba HD-XA-2. There is a space being held for the forthcoming OPPO BD player.

I don't have the unit yet (probably tomorrow). I'm just working on my remote setup based on the pre-programmed remotes files in the database. I needed to know how I would access my HDMI inputs so that I could setup my macros.

AB,

What speakers are in your system?

Are you using the DVDO Edge with the 886?

Enjoy.

Audio Bear:

In your most recent thread you mentioned having hiccups with your HDMI. I can't get my 886 and my Pioneer Elite DV-46AV DVD player to cooperate at all over HDMI. The HDMI light on the Pioneer switches on and off and the 886 frequently states "no signal" then all at once the picture and sound will pop on and play with no further problems.

Also had initial problems with my Directv HD DVR over HDMI into the unit. Same problem: no linking up.

Checked cables, reassigned HDMI inputs a couple hundred times etc..

Anyone else have this sort of problem?

Other than that the unit (one week old) Wowed the family last night watching Transformers over HBO-HD for a test run.

Cheers to all and Happy New Year!

Gil,

How did you fix your Directv/HDMI issue?

TIA

I couldn't get the HDMI to work reliably in the configuration I wanted to set up, so I tried an alternative. Originally, I was sending all a/v inputs to the DVDO Edge, taking HDMI audio/video from the Edge to the Onkyo which fed the BenQ. I continued to have problems getting a stable handshake on SAT signals (didn't really spend much time worrying about others because this was a must, but I also had problems with HD-DVD inputs). I took the Edge out of the signal path and tried the Onkyo alone. Not surprisingly, it worked somewhat better but the video processing and flexibility of the Edge is better than the Reon in the Onkyo in my system to my eyes. In fairness I did not spend a lot of time on this because it wasn't all that stable and didn't look all that good to me. Maybe I could have worked it out if I messed around but the Onkyo had problems locking onto a signal when I switched inputs. I think the Onkyo has HDMI handshake difficulties with my DirecTV but really didn't dwell on it enough to analyze any repeatable, reproducible problems.

Instead I took the chicken way out. I routed all a/v inputs to the Edge and now send the video HDMI out of the Edge to the BenQ PJ and the audio HDMI to the Onkyo. This means the Onkyo switches nothing and does no video. It also means I had to route the menu out on the Onkyo HDMI monitor out and send this to the Edge as an input. I select the menu and see it as an input on the Edge, but I do not see volume changes etc superimposed on the picture--a minor loss because I can see the front panel display on the Onkyo. This set-up is stable and works well when I switch between inputs on the Edge. Every now and then the Onkyo doesn't play audio when I switch inputs though. It sometimes says no signal, and at times it is silent but has selected PLIIx or Dolby D, When this happens I select another audio source on the Onkyo remote and then click back to the source the Edge audio it routed into. It immediately locks on the audio and plays.

I now have a stable system that works for me. I realize that not everybody has an Edge and can't use this solution. I suspect the Onkyo is going to need a firmware upgrade and their track record of updating firmware in the field is not good.

So, what do I think of the Onkyo Pre-amp at this point? It sounds good and had a lot of features. I bought it to play movies and watch sports and some other TV. It does a great job with TruHD or any good film sound-track. Music sounds good too. It's really a good value and does what I need it to do. I think I might be less than happy if I needed that Reon (I now have 3 of those in my system I don't use) or if I needed the Onkyo to be an HDMI switch, or if I couldn't work out a stable handshake. The only other pre-amp I would have considered at this point retails for $7500. It has a lot more features, and I suspect it has a lot less problems than the Onkyo and sounds better--it ought to at 4 times the price of the Onkyo. There's really no comparison. I was aware of all of this when I bought the Onkyo so there is no disappointment.

It is unfair to ask a VW to be a Mercedes. What is fair is for the gear to function as advertised and I am not certain yet that the Onkyo does that for everyone. I get the impression that in some systems it is flawless and others there are warts. Honestly, instead of blaming Onkyo or other equipment makers for this, we ought to be mounting a class action suit against the people who foisted HDCP-HDMI on the world.

EDIT UPDATE JAN 9, 2009: I had a few hours so I went back and tried to use the Edge to feed the Onkyo via HDMI. It worked perfectly this time with no HDMI handshake problems. It sometimes takes a couple of seconds to switch inputs and get a picture but I am told this is normal with HDMI handshakes. I did use different cables (Monoprice 26 gauge) and the Edge has had its software updated to V1.1 so I can't really say why it works now. I still prefer the video processing by the Edge to the Reon in the Onkyo but that's a personal preference. You can certainly see the positive effects of the Reon in the Onkyo and it beats the Edge on jaggies on angled lines and moving edges.

I have no HDCP issues with my 885 and Plugins. No Reon issues that can't be adjusted. All my HDMI is rock solid. No problems with LPCM, DTS-HDMA, DD True HD, DVD-A or SACD. I think that many issues are from the other part of the puzzle, Video equipment. If you want to use a Projector you should buy a stand alone VP. That was short

The DVDO Edge that I use is a stand alone VP and it is the only thing that makes my system work so you are right. Lot's of people use projectors without VPs. BenQ W5000s don't have much in the way of handshake problems. Go on over to the thread in PJs over $3K and check that out.

You are fortunate that you are one of the people whose Onkyo works for them. I was hoping to be one of them too. The fact remains that the Onkyo has a spotty record of playing nice with HDMI handshakes.

EDIT: See my edit comments above in the long post I made above. I solved the handshake problem by updating software in the Edge and putting in new shorter HDMI cables.

I also am having no problems with HDMI interoperability with my PR-SC886 including enabling CEC on the devices that support it. I did have to adjust the CEC configuration on my display as I did not want the processor to power down when I powered down the display. I am using all four HDMI inputs.

For the person who reported a HDMI problem with a Pioneer Elite DV-46AV I am using a Pioneer Elite DV-48AV with no problems.

The key to resolving HDMI problems is figuring out which device is at fault or if it is the combination of both devices. Hopefully someone will devlope a reasonably priced tool to analyze the HDMI negotations.

Kokishin wrote:
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<br /> Gil,

How did you fix your Directv/HDMI issue?

TIA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Kokishin, I'm not sure that I did anything smart enough to brag about. What I did find was that the sequence of startup of the system affected the results. Projector first followed by 886 followed by DirecTV DVR worked well with no problems. It's possible that the Onkyo 886, like most complex computers, needs a little time to fully boot itself up to a stable operating condition before you start throwing signals to it.

Regarding problems with Pioneer Elite 46AV DVD player: searched this model in other AVS forums and found many posts indicating problems with the player's firmware being buggy and causing grief for many owners trying to use HDMI. I'm getting ready to replace the unit with a Bluray player anyway so I hooked up component video and coax digital audio and did an end run around the HDMI issue.

Note that both the Pioneer DVD player and the DirecTV DVR are around 3 years old. HDMI was just rolling into the market at that point. I'm assuming that most recent gear comes out of the box better set up thanks to experience in the field.

That said, the audio performance of the Onkyo 886 blows away the sound of the Aragon Soundstage that it replaced. Especially with the Pure Audio switch engaged. People buying the (nearly) identical Integra 9.9 don't what they are missing by not having the Pure Audio option. As far as bang-for-the-buck goes the 886 is a giant killer.

Gilboyd,

That really helps, my issues are also primarily with DirecTV. I wil go back to using the Onkyo for video and tets this out. I use a Harmony 880 and will try re-ordering the input and adding some delay.

Retate has an idea for a great device. A lot of people in the forums have HDMI problems.

I agree on Pure Audio even though I don't pass video through the Onkyo. It must do more than just kill the video. Sound quality it not an issue with this unit. It has fanatsic bang for the buck.

Have my 886 up and running. Very early impressions are ... wow! It's sorta blowing my Sherwood Newcastle P-965 totally out of the water. I can't say anything for sure yet, but a few quick scenes in HP-OFTP and Serenity seemed to sound substantially better than I've ever heard them before. I hope this keeps up, but won't get to do any hardcore testing and calibrating for a few days.

I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, but here are a couple quick ones:

If I want to use the VP on my sat box, but I have a 720p TV (can accept up to 1080i) and a 1080p projector hooked to my two HDMI outs, am I basically forced to set the VP to either 720p or 1080i (or change the setting every time, which I refuse to do)? What exactly does the "auto" setting do?

How do I make sure "dynamic volume" is not turned on. That's not the same as night mode, right? I certainly don't want anything restricting extreme volume changes.

My first quick Audessey pass (only three sites) got my sub distance way off and didn't do a great job leveling out my channel volumes (per my Radio Shack SPL meter). The distance I assume I should correct, but do yall think it's better to leave the volumes as Audessey sets them or correct to the results of the old fashioned method?

Thanks. I'm looking forward to having a lot more to say.

Glad to hear the good news. Merry Christmas!

I am new to this and really enjoyed 3 films yesterday. The unit really excells at HT.

Dynamic Volume is set to off by default (go to Menu Map on p.86 for overview of where to find the control). It's Speaker set-up-->Equalizer on page 96.

The Audyssey mike may be better or as good as your RS meter. There's a long discussion of this under the Integra DHC-9.9 thread. Do a good calibration and you can trust the Audyssey. See the Audyssey thread for how to do a good one, but there is a much shorter explanation about RS meters in the Integra thread -- search radio shack (I have not thrown mine out but I have trusted the Audyssey). My unit sounds great with the current calibration so I just listen to it now and don't fret the details.

Enjoy!

This is not spam and I am not trying to sell anything. I participate over at both Blu-ray.com and Audiogon. I wanted to let people know about a way of improving the performance of their Integra and Onkyo Pre/Pro amps for both home theater and 2 channel sound.

I had my Onkyo PR-SC885 upgraded by Dave Schulte of the Upgrade Company back in July of this year. This entails replacing parts to improve the audio and video performance. I use mine in a high end 2 channel and home theater set-up. The upgrade made a tremendous improvement in performance. Dave Schulte and I compared the performance of the Onkyo (with little burn-in) to an upgraded $8,000 McIntosh 2 Box C200 Preamp which had already outperformed $10,000 to $18,000 preamps. The upgraded Onkyo PR-SC885 was far superior to the upgraded $8,000 McIntosh Preamp.

In the upgraded form, my Onkyo PR-SC885 will outperform probably just about any stock Pre/Pro amp available. This same service should work with any of the Onkyo and Integra Pre/Pro amps. It had been compared to a stock Denon AVP1HD and upgraded Denon AVP1HD that Dave had already prepared. The upgraded Onkyo handily outperformed the stock and upgraded Denon.

If anyone is interested in improving the performance of their Onkyo or Integra Pre/Pro amps for audio and video the cost is approximately $1000 plus shipping. Contact Dave Schulte at the Upgrade Company. Do a search for the Upgrade Company. Since this is my first posting, I am unable to post URLs.

Rich Nelridge

What did he actually do?

Hi Rich,

It sounds like folks who have Denon AVP1HD prepros that list for $7,500 should not pursue having Dave upgrade their high-end prepros since in comparison with the $1,800 Onkyo they still wouldn't be getting the same level of performance.

Larry

Seasons Greetings,

I am considering to switch from Rotel RSP-1098 to PR-SC886P mainly because of digital formats (SACD,DVD-A as well as lossless varieties of DTS and DD).
I would appreciate if you could tell me about:
(a) Availability. Previous version from Integra had quite a waitlist.
(b) XLR connections. Can one use XLR for the front mains and RCA for the rest of them, both in the bi-amp and regular modes ?
(c) Video enhancement. The manual kind of implies that both NTSC and PAL are supported (whereas the previous version was NTSC only). Anyone who has verified this ?

Dave is somewhat secretive in his upgrades. But, with over 28 years of experience he knows what inexpensive parts used by even High End Makers like Krell, Esoteric, McIntosh, etc. to change with better parts. As Dave has mentioned to me and others, many of the parts used in even High End equipment are the same ones used in clock radios. In any case, he replaces parts, sometimes over one hundred depending upon whether it is a Pre/Pro, Blu-ray, DVD, etc. These improved and frequently expensive parts really impact the audio and video performance. Additionally, he will work on increased damping in the units, re-soldering, he replaced the 2 prong AC output with a proper 3 Prong IEC connector (which as I understand it includes a filter), he has added some tape to further isolate RF noise, etc.

Dave stands behind his work with a warranty. But his work may void the Onkyo/Integra warranty. I know that on the Denon players, transports, etc. are still covered, so I can not confirm the loss of the warranty. The units will require hundreds of hours of burn-in for them to reach their full potential. But, even out of the box after the upgrade, you will notice decided improvements.

Dave, is one of the premier modders in the business. There is a new review of Dave's work on one of the on-line magazines that you can find on Dave's website.

If you have any more questions, let me know. Dave has done a lot of upgrades for me at this point including: 4 Aragon Palladium 1K monoblock power amps, 1 Krell KAV 250a/3 power amp, Lavry DA10 DAC, Denon DVD 5910, Denon DVD3800BDCI Blu-ray player, Exact Power EP15A, and Dahlquist DQ-10 speakers. Dave also sells relatively inexpensive high end custom made power cords, ICs, Coax, and speaker cables.

You are welcome to mention my name to Dave, he knows me quite well.

Rich

Thanks but this really tells me nothing. It would be nice to have a real description of what and why rather than having to take it on faith.

Hi Larry,

Initially I was going to have Dave upgrade one of the Denon AVP-1HD Pre/Pros for me. He had already done one for another customer. He had just recently done one of the new Onkyos for another customer. He was so impressed with the improvement that he prepared one for himself. Dave was going to upgrade my Proceed AVP for me, but we listened and he had me take his just Upgraded Onkyo. He keeps getting them in and keeps upgrading these units and keeps sending them out. He hasn't been able to keep one for himself at this point.

Dave's comments about the Denon are/were that they sound better after upgrade, but they are still a bit grainy in sound. He is of the opinion that the Denon is just too complicated with too many parts and wiring that defeats the optimum performance of the units. He has similar feelings about the Esoteric players and transports and DAC units.

Dave is of the opinion that the simpler Onkyo/Integra units are well designed to start with and he is able to get much higher performance out of them through his upgrades. Dave is also constantly coming up with ways to further the performance of units that he works on. He keeps his customers in the loop regarding any further upgrades and charges minimally for any advances.

Rich

Kal,

You are welcome to contact Dave. But, I doubt that he will provide much in the specifics. Much of what he does is "secret". He does offer the opportunity to "test" units for comparison. There are a large number of reviews on his website and elsewhere regarding his work. I am sorry that I unable to provide more information than that.

Here is the link: http://**************.com/

Here is the Online magazine review:

http://www.dagogo.com/**************P70-D70.html

Also, one of the editors for Absolute Sound had a unit upgraded by Dave, and you can read his comments on Dave's website as well.

Rich

Hi Rich,

Good to see you over here, and I'm hoping you'll find a few more like-minded audiophiles than in some other places. I think its inevitable that there will be some sceptics over the benefits of Schulte's modifications, but let's face it, the only people who will be joining in this thread will have a great deal of interest in audio quality. Not at all the same as receiver discussions, where the only things that seem to matter are Watts, codecs and $$$s.

Although there wasn't a great deal of discussion of the 885, I think you might find the "Best Sounding Pre/Pros" thread particularly interesting. Its rather long, but there's a lot of good stuff in it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ounding+prepro

That seems to be the way that David Schulte works. I know that most modmen do give fairly full descriptions of the work they perform, but Dave S choses not to do that (protect IP etc). He seems to sell on reputation and recommendation. The assurance of performance comes from his customer feedback and his guarantee, not the bill of materials or or other similar intangiables. A different way of doing things perhaps, but quite valid. In the context of this thread, it sounds like Dave S has hit on something of particular value with the 885.

Rich, have you read Kal's Stereophile review of the 885, I think it lead to quite a few happy users round here?

http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/108mitr/

Nick

Am I right that everyone agrees that if you have a source outputting 1080p/24, it's best to use the "through" VP setting for that input? Am I right that "1080p" in the 886 is actually 1080p/60?

It's kind of a shame to lose the on-screeen volume read out, but I take it that's thought of as a small sacrifice worth making?

Not long after I saw your messages on the Blu-ray forum about this I emailed Dave Schulte (and messaged you) about this, but heard never back from him. I guess I'll still pursue it, though his lack of response was discouraging.

I'll have to double check. Maybe it was my assumption and not based in reality, but I thought I wasn't seeing OSD volume when I was watching a blu-ray from my PS3 last night.

Hi Steve,

I am not sure if you were the person that Dave had mentioned to me regarding a contact. He had indicated that he had responded to someone about a query, but he had not received a return response.

Give Dave another chance. It is quite possible that it got lost in some ones spam or Junk. Dave is quite good in responding and generally the same day or within 48 hours.

You may want to mark the e-mail as highest priority and something easy to spot in the subject line of your e-mail. In any case, I do apologize for an oversight if Dave missed the e-mail, but I suspect it got buried or lost at one end or the other. Be aware, Dave gets a lot of work, so it can't hurt to mention my name for better recognition and where you saw the posting about the products. Due to word of mouth Dave is getting work from all over the world, primarily from the US and Canada, but also a fair amount of work from Europe as well.

Also, Steve. what is your ID over at Blu-ray.com. There were a few people that contacted me, but none that I see in my PM for Steve Goff.

Rich Nelridge

Nick,

Thanks for the link to Kal's Stereophile review. I had read this long ago, but didn't realize that Kal was the author.

Rich

If you want the REON fully off, you set the OSD Immediate Display to OFF as well as passthrough, which loses you the OSD updates.