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Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro Official thread - Page 103

post #3061 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post

Thanks for the reply. Are you referring to the setting the allows audio to pass through the HDMI and into the TV? I do have that on so I can watch TV without needing my XPA-5 on all the time and just use the TV speakers. If that is enabled what does that mean as far as video processing and the Reon chip? The picture doesn't look upscaled to me but all my picture settings are at the factory default of 0, maybe I need to adjust those?

Thanks for the list of Audyssey settings, that helped a lot!

A real simple way to figure out if the 886 is upconverting the signal is to hit the info button on your display to see what signal it is receiving. Use a source that you can change the resolution on. For example, set your BR player to output 720p. Then check the info on the tv to see what signal it is receiving. If the tv is receiving a 1080p signal and the BR player is outputting 720p then obviously the 886 is upconverting the 720p incoming signal and outputting it as 1080p.

Does that make sense???
post #3062 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

A real simple way to figure out if the 886 is upconverting the signal is to hit the info button on your display to see what signal it is receiving. Use a source that you can change the resolution on. For example, set your BR player to output 720p. Then check the info on the tv to see what signal it is receiving. If the tv is receiving a 1080p signal and the BR player is outputting 720p then obviously the 886 is upconverting the 720p incoming signal and outputting it as 1080p.

Does that make sense???

Yup, good call.

Thanks for all the help, I have read the Onkyo manual but don't find it that helpful, I actually just got the Outlaw one as I heard it is much better.

Obviously Dynamic EQ is probably recommended to be on all the time. I don't really see any down side to it when watching a movie. However, what is recommended for Dynamic Volume? I can see how it would be handy when watching a movie alone later at night. But what about when watching with a bunch of friends and you want it to be loud? Wouldn't having dialog be the same volume as explosions be a down side in this example?

Finally, do you recommend double bass on or off? I have Klipsch F-3's so they are fairly large front speakers. Is there a point to sending the L & R front bass to the sub in my set-up?
post #3063 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

A real simple way to figure out if the 886 is upconverting the signal is to hit the info button on your display to see what signal it is receiving. Use a source that you can change the resolution on. For example, set your BR player to output 720p. Then check the info on the tv to see what signal it is receiving. If the tv is receiving a 1080p signal and the BR player is outputting 720p then obviously the 886 is upconverting the 720p incoming signal and outputting it as 1080p.

+1

AFAIK, the TV Audio Out setting only affects audio, but there are several combinations of that setting in conjunction with the HDMI CEC (RIHD) settings that can alter that behavior.
post #3064 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post

Yup, good call.

Thanks for all the help, I have read the Onkyo manual but don't find it that helpful, I actually just got the Outlaw one as I heard it is much better.

Obviously Dynamic EQ is probably recommended to be on all the time. I don't really see any down side to it when watching a movie. However, what is recommended for Dynamic Volume? I can see how it would be handy when watching a movie alone later at night. But what about when watching with a bunch of friends and you want it to be loud? Wouldn't having dialog be the same volume as explosions be a down side in this example?

Finally, do you recommend double bass on or off? I have Klipsch F-3's so they are fairly large front speakers. Is there a point to sending the L & R front bass to the sub in my set-up?

I would not recommend using double bass but that is up to you. There is really no right or wrong answer to that. Try it out and decide what you like better. I would set your mains to large first and see if that gives you more bass. Of course your mains have to be capable of being a true full range speaker. Few are.

In my opinion if your main speakers are capapble of @20hz then I would set them as large and try it out. I go back an forth between setting my mains as large or crossing them at 40hz. It depends on what I am listening to. For the most part I leave them crossed at 40hz but when I am listening to 2 channel music I prefer them set as large.

Most main speakers are not capable of producing low hz effectively. Plus Audyssey on the 886 only corrects bass frequency via the sub channel. Which means using the mains as large may give you bloated, incorrect or overpowering bass. The only way to know is to try out different settings and decide what sounds best to you.

Double bass essential sends the same signal to the sub and the mains as well. So not only are you getting the info that was designated for the mains, if they were set to large, but you also getting the .1 sub channel info as well. I don't see how that would be beneficial except for in a setup that has subs built into the mains.

I have Mirgae OM-5s that have 2, 8" self powered woofers. They can play down to 20hz but a good sub will still blow them out of the water at the low hz. There may be a few mains out there that can acutally handle 20hz and below as well as a good sub but I've never heard or seen any. That is why I cross mine at 40hz and let my sub handle the low hz with 90% of what I listen too. I prefer running them full range with stereo music because it just sounds "tighter" to me. It is a minor difference but noticeable to me. Also, I don't listen to hip hop or organ music so there is very little low hz material for the mains to handle.
post #3065 of 3236
I'm definitely making some headway and am liking this pre/pro more and more each day. I have been reading the Outlaw 886 manual and it says this...

Audio TV Out to “On.” It is important to note, however, that the PR-SC886 cannot decode some audio formats (such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio) when this is set to “On.” Instead, the HDTV will require the active source to output an audio format that is supported by the TV. The output video resolution will also default to “Through.”

Guess I will hook up the 12V trigger and use the XPA-5 all the time when watching TV. The above seems like a big downfall to having the "audio out" set to "on". However, I checked the TV resolution as beekermartin suggested and it said 1080p on the TV while using this feature...hmm, I'll leave it off anyways, the XPA-5 doesn't take a whole lot of current at TV volume levels.
post #3066 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post

I'm definitely making some headway and am liking this pre/pro more and more each day. I have been reading the Outlaw 886 manual and it says this...

Audio TV Out to “On.” It is important to note, however, that the PR-SC886 cannot decode some audio formats (such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio) when this is set to “On.” Instead, the HDTV will require the active source to output an audio format that is supported by the TV. The output video resolution will also default to “Through.”

Guess I will hook up the 12V trigger and use the XPA-5 all the time when watching TV. The above seems like a big downfall to having the "audio out" set to "on". However, I checked the TV resolution as beekermartin suggested and it said 1080p on the TV while using this feature...hmm, I'll leave it off anyways, the XPA-5 doesn't take a whole lot of current at TV volume levels.

That's because when Audio Out to TV is turned On, the EDID packet of the TV is passed back to the source so that it (the source) only sends formats that the TV can understand... otherwise there would be no point in passing the digital audio to the TV in the first place. With 99% of the TVs, when HDMI audio is set to pass through to the TV, 2ch PCM is the only output format supported. If the 886 produces any sound at all it will be from whatever format the TV has dictated to the source via EDID.

Actually, an 876/886/906 will normally mute itself completely when the Audio Out to HDMI is turned On, unless one of those CEC options I mentioned is also configured. The manual is fairly cryptic (and sometimes contradictory to itself) in this regard... you really need to try all the configurations options of HDMI Audio Out, HDMI Control and HDMI Control Power to verify the behavior (which I have not done as I have no interest in, or need for, either HDMI control or HDMI audio pass-thru).

Personally, I haven't used a TV's internal speakers since 1977, when I bought a 19" Sony Trinitron (that sucker was like $400 back then!) and connected the mono earphone jack of the TV to my stereo setup.
post #3067 of 3236
I just hooked up an additional 2 surround back speakers to make it a 7.2 system. When watching blu-ray with DTS-HD, I don't hear any sound coming out these 2 speakers at all. When listening to music in all stereo mode, there are sound coming out of these 2 speakers w/out any problem

Any idea how to fix this problem when watching blu-ray, or it all depend on the blu-ray disk content? Any setting I have to turn on in the 886p?
post #3068 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt08 View Post

I just hooked up an additional 2 surround back speakers to make it a 7.2 system. When watching blu-ray with DTS-HD, I don't hear any sound coming out these 2 speakers at all. When listening to music in all stereo mode, there are sound coming out of these 2 speakers w/out any problem

Any idea how to fix this problem when watching blu-ray, or it all depend on the blu-ray disk content? Any setting I have to turn on in the 886p?

Depends on the source content... and very little content is 7.1.

You need to use a mode such as PLIIx to synthesize the surround back channels from 5.1 sources.
post #3069 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

Depends on the source content... and very little content is 7.1.

You need to use a mode such as PLIIx to synthesize the surround back channels from 5.1 sources.

Damn, then I just wasted money to buy the 2 Mirage OMD-5. So from what you are saying if I select PLIIx, the pre-pro will convert to 7.2? would it sound as good as its original format Doldby Digital HD or DTS-HD? thx.
post #3070 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt08 View Post

Damn, then I just wasted money to buy the 2 Mirage OMD-5. So from what you are saying if I select PLIIx, the pre-pro will convert to 7.2? would it sound as good as its original format Doldby Digital HD or DTS-HD? thx.

No, you did not waste your money. Sound is a good as the original but two rear channel added. I use THX Ultra mode for all movie playback and very happy with it.
post #3071 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex solomon View Post

no, you did not waste your money. Sound is a good as the original but two rear channel added. I use thx ultra mode for all movie playback and very happy with it.

^+1
post #3072 of 3236
I believe someone replied that the ISF mode should only be set to "custom" if it was set-up by a certified technician. However, the only options are "night", "day" or "custom", you cannot turn it off. Aparantly the gamma changes for the day/night settings. What do you guys have it set to? I really hope you don't have to change it for day/night watching.
post #3073 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post

I believe someone replied that the ISF mode should only be set to "custom" if it was set-up by a certified technician. However, the only options are "night", "day" or "custom", you cannot turn it off. Aparantly the gamma changes for the day/night settings. What do you guys have it set to? I really hope you don't have to change it for day/night watching.

Custom with everything zero'd is "bypassed", although signal still passes through processor so it is not a hard bypass.

Gamma change is intentionally changed in the default Day and Night modes, shifting near-black levels appropriately for those lighting conditions. You can unlock the Day and Night modes so that you can adjust them exactly the same way as the custom mode by holding down the Display button for 6-7 seconds while in the Day or Night menu. When unlocked, you can use them (Day/Night/Custom) as three presets for any purpose you wish. There are also discrete IR commands available to directly access each mode without running through the menus.

Most 876/886/906 models exhibit a color shift bug when gamma is adjusted in the ISF menus, but only if the source is RGB... it does not do this with YCbCr sources.
post #3074 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post
Custom with everything zero'd is "bypassed", although signal still passes through processor so it is not a hard bypass.

Gamma change is intentionally changed in the default Day and Night modes, shifting near-black levels appropriately for those lighting conditions. You can unlock the Day and Night modes so that you can adjust them exactly the same way as the custom mode by holding down the Display button for 6-7 seconds while in the Day or Night menu. When unlocked, you can use them (Day/Night/Custom) as three presets for any purpose you wish. There are also discrete IR commands available to directly access each mode without running through the menus.

Most 876/886/906 models exhibit a color shift bug when gamma is adjusted in the ISF menus, but only if the source is RGB... it does not do this with YCbCr sources.
Thanks for the reply, so you recommend custom mode with everything zero'd?


On another note, I have been listening to music in THX Music listening mode. However, about half of the modes are super quiet including All Channel Stereo which is what I used to use. I can turn the 886 all the way up (+9) and it is not that loud at all. Is that normal?
post #3075 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post
Thanks for the reply, so you recommend custom mode with everything zero'd?


On another note, I have been listening to music in THX Music listening mode. However, about half of the modes are super quiet including All Channel Stereo which is what I used to use. I can turn the 886 all the way up (+9) and it is not that loud at all. Is that normal?
No that is not normal. It should be extremely loud at +9. I don't think I've ever gone past +2. What type of amp are you using? I would double check all your speaker connections and interconnects. If you are using an XPA amp make sure you have the selector switch set properly for each channel, balanced or unbalanced depending on what type of cables you are using.
post #3076 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post
No that is not normal. It should be extremely loud at +9. I don't think I've ever gone past +2. What type of amp are you using? I would double check all your speaker connections and interconnects. If you are using an XPA amp make sure you have the selector switch set properly for each channel, balanced or unbalanced depending on what type of cables you are using.
I'm using an XPA-5 with RCA cables, all switches are to unbalanced. I've tried the radio and an ipod. Tried the Aux2 front input and some back inputs. The volume changes drastically between different listening modes. Pure audio, direct and all the THX modes (except Neural THX 5.1) are normal volume, everything else is quiet.
post #3077 of 3236
That is strange. The only thing I can think of night listening. There is a button on the bottom of the remote called night listening. Maybe in certain modes that is active. I haven't come across a problem like that so I don't really now what else it could be. What do you have the EQ set to?
post #3078 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post
On another note, I have been listening to music in THX Music listening mode. However, about half of the modes are super quiet including All Channel Stereo which is what I used to use. I can turn the 886 all the way up (+9) and it is not that loud at all. Is that normal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post
I'm using an XPA-5 with RCA cables, all switches are to unbalanced. I've tried the radio and an ipod. Tried the Aux2 front input and some back inputs. The volume changes drastically between different listening modes. Pure audio, direct and all the THX modes (except Neural THX 5.1) are normal volume, everything else is quiet.
Hi,

Have you run Audyssey, and if so what are your speaker level settings?

In the earlier Audyssey-enabled devices a situation arises where Audyssey is competing with other post processing listening modes for DSP resources. When this happens a Volume scaling issues arises in which raising the master volume has no effect on actual volume. The Pure Audio and Direct listening modes do not use DSP resources, and it's possible that the THX modes use very little resources. The other listening modes, which are surround processing modes probably use a lot of DSP resources.

Gene Dellasala discusses this issue in his review of the Denon AVP-A1 preamplifier. Scroll down the page to the section entitled "Volume Scaling Issue".

AVP-A1HDCI Video Tests & Audyssey Analysis

This may or may not be your problem. However, if Audyssey has set a number of your channels to relatively high positive values, then Volume scaling is probably the problem. I ran into this issue when my surround channel power amplifier wasn't working properly and Audyssey had to boost the level to my surrounds to near the maximum positive values. As a result I couldn't get the volume to even read higher than +3. If I recall correctly the 886 is supposed to go to +18 dB. When I replaced the power amplifier the problem was mitigated, but I never could get to the theoretical +18 dB level (nor would I advise you to try. ).

Larry
post #3079 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post

That is strange. The only thing I can think of night listening. There is a button on the bottom of the remote called night listening. Maybe in certain modes that is active. I haven't come across a problem like that so I don't really now what else it could be. What do you have the EQ set to?

You figured it out for me, THANKS! EQ was on Dynamic Vol because I watched a night movie alone a couple nights ago. I changed it to Dynamic EQ and it is loud again. Weird that it only effected some listening modes though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi,

Have you run Audyssey, and if so what are your speaker level settings?

In the earlier Audyssey-enabled devices a situation arises where Audyssey is competing with other post processing listening modes for DSP resources. When this happens a Volume scaling issues arises in which raising the master volume has no effect on actual volume. The Pure Audio and Direct listening modes do not use DSP resources, and it's possible that the THX modes use very little resources. The other listening modes, which are surround processing modes probably use a lot of DSP resources.

Gene Dellasala discusses this issue in his review of the Denon AVP-A1 preamplifier. Scroll down the page to the section entitled "Volume Scaling Issue".

AVP-A1HDCI Video Tests & Audyssey Analysis

This may or may not be your problem. However, if Audyssey has set a number of your channels to relatively high positive values, then Volume scaling is probably the problem. I ran into this issue when my surround channel power amplifier wasn't working properly and Audyssey had to boost the level to my surrounds to near the maximum positive values. As a result I couldn't get the volume to even read higher than +3. If I recall correctly the 886 is supposed to go to +18 dB. When I replaced the power amplifier the problem was mitigated, but I never could get to the theoretical +18 dB level (nor would I advise you to try. ).

Larry

I did run Audyssey and most of the speakers were of a pretty high negative volume. I have Klipsch speakers so they are very efficient. My max volume is +9 though, I heard that running Audyssey can actually change that depending on the environment and equipment used.
post #3080 of 3236
Ok, here's another one

I have a song that has an organ note in the upper teens and it used to shake my mirrors pretty violently. Since I put in the 886 and XPA-5 I cannot get it to do that anymore. I cleared the 886 when I got it and have tried no EQ, Multi, Dynamic, etc to no avail. I cannot find any subsonic filter in the settings. The sub still moves quite a bit but it doesn't seem as authoritive on the really low end. Sub is a SVS 20-39PC

Any ideas?
post #3081 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post

Ok, here's another one

I have a song that has an organ note in the upper teens and it used to shake my mirrors pretty violently. Since I put in the 886 and XPA-5 I cannot get it to do that anymore. I cleared the 886 when I got it and have tried no EQ, Multi, Dynamic, etc to no avail. I cannot find any subsonic filter in the settings. The sub still moves quite a bit but it doesn't seem as authoritive on the really low end. Sub is a SVS 20-39PC

Any ideas?

I hate it when the furniture, pictures and mirrors vibrate and mine do with Audyssey or MRC. So, I have wedged fiberglas panels behind the cabinets and put soft foam behind pictures and mirrors.
post #3082 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I hate it when the furniture, pictures and mirrors vibrate and mine do with Audyssey or MRC. So, I have wedged fiberglas panels behind the cabinets and put soft foam behind pictures and mirrors.

I don't believe you read my post thoroughly, with this new set-up my sub seems to not have the low end authority it did with my old Onkyo TX-SR703, almost like there is a subsonic filter or something. I wasn't asking how to prevent my mirrors from shaking.
post #3083 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post

The volume changes drastically between different listening modes. Pure audio, direct and all the THX modes (except Neural THX 5.1) are normal volume, everything else is quiet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post

EQ was on Dynamic Vol because I watched a night movie alone a couple nights ago. I changed it to Dynamic EQ and it is loud again. Weird that it only effected some listening modes though.

Hint: set Preserve THX Settings to No.
post #3084 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Hint: set Preserve THX Settings to No.

I was just looking in the menu the other day. I will verify it is set to "NO" tonight, thank you.
post #3085 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post

I don't believe you read my post thoroughly, with this new set-up my sub seems to not have the low end authority it did with my old Onkyo TX-SR703, almost like there is a subsonic filter or something. I wasn't asking how to prevent my mirrors from shaking.

I did read it but I was somewhat mocking you (and others) who judge bass performance on the presence/absence of spurious resonances.

In general, it is the diminution of room resonances that is the goal of the LF corrections in Audyssey and what contributes greatly to its enhancement of sound quality throughout the spectrum. I, for one, have no issues with Audyssey reducing the boominess of the bass but leaving the extension intact. Have you measured the results to confirm your subjective assessment? OTOH, you can adjust the sub levels a bit to your taste after Audyssey, if you find that you need/want to.
post #3086 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I did read it but I was somewhat mocking you (and others) who judge bass performance on the presence/absence of spurious resonances.

In general, it is the diminution of room resonances that is the goal of the LF corrections in Audyssey and what contributes greatly to its enhancement of sound quality throughout the spectrum. I, for one, have no issues with Audyssey reducing the boominess of the bass but leaving the extension intact. Have you measured the results to confirm your subjective assessment? OTOH, you can adjust the sub levels a bit to your taste after Audyssey, if you find that you need/want to.

One reason I love my SVS is because of the low end capability, I don't understand why Audyssey would take that away. Like you, I would not care if boominess was reduced but the extension should never be. I was in no way meaning to judge bass response based on the level of vibration of my walls, I was merely trying to prove that the bass is not as authoritative with the 866 all other factors staying the same. In the 30+ hz range it sounds the same. I have the low pass set at 120hz and the crossover on the plate amp disabled. I will review my settings again when I get home, thanks.
post #3087 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post

One reason I love my SVS is because of the low end capability, I don't understand why Audyssey would take that away. Like you, I would not care if boominess was reduced but the extension should never be. I was in no way meaning to judge bass response based on the level of vibration of my walls, I was merely trying to prove that the bass is not as authoritative with the 866 all other factors staying the same. In the 30+ hz range it sounds the same. I have the low pass set at 120hz and the crossover on the plate amp disabled. I will review my settings again when I get home, thanks.

I am not an expert, by any means, but it sounds to me like you want more bass than what Audyssey says is correct. Not everyone agrees with Audyssey's settings. It depends on many factors but I have found that most people like a lot more bass than what is actually correct. There is nothing wrong with that. It is all personal taste. I prefer the bass I get with Audyssey. If I turn off Audyssey the bass increases but it doesn't sound anywhere near as flat. It basically sounds like "more" bass but not accurate bass. If that makes any sense.

Try to increase the level in the speaker settings menu. I don't recommend adjusting the gain on the sub since it is hard to judge exactly how much the turn of the knob will effect the actual level.

I would set the gain, run Audyssey, then check to make sure the speaker setting for the sub is +/- 4 of 0. Then try it out. It sounds like you have already done that step. If Audyssey set it anywhere near +12db then you have your gain set to low on the sub. If it is anywhere near -12db then you have the gain set to high. I got mine to -0.5 after running Audyssey a few times and adjusting the gain. After you get the gain set properly give it a listen. After that raise the sub DB level in the speaker setting menu 1db at a time to see if that gives you the extension you are looking for. I believe you will find that if you set it @4-6db higher than what Audyssey did you will find the bass you are looking for.
post #3088 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post

One reason I love my SVS is because of the low end capability, I don't understand why Audyssey would take that away. Like you, I would not care if boominess was reduced but the extension should never be. I was in no way meaning to judge bass response based on the level of vibration of my walls, I was merely trying to prove that the bass is not as authoritative with the 866 all other factors staying the same. In the 30+ hz range it sounds the same. I have the low pass set at 120hz and the crossover on the plate amp disabled. I will review my settings again when I get home, thanks.

But no measurements...................
post #3089 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by beekermartin View Post
I am not an expert, by any means, but it sounds to me like you want more bass than what Audyssey says is correct. Not everyone agrees with Audyssey's settings. It depends on many factors but I have found that most people like a lot more bass than what is actually correct. There is nothing wrong with that. It is all personal taste. I prefer the bass I get with Audyssey. If I turn off Audyssey the bass increases but it doesn't sound anywhere near as flat. It basically sounds like "more" bass but not accurate bass. If that makes any sense.

Try to increase the level in the speaker settings menu. I don't recommend adjusting the gain on the sub since it is hard to judge exactly how much the turn of the knob will effect the actual level.

I would set the gain, run Audyssey, then check to make sure the speaker setting for the sub is +/- 4 of 0. Then try it out. It sounds like you have already done that step. If Audyssey set it anywhere near +12db then you have your gain set to low on the sub. If it is anywhere near -12db then you have the gain set to high. I got mine to -0.5 after running Audyssey a few times and adjusting the gain. After you get the gain set properly give it a listen. After that raise the sub DB level in the speaker setting menu 1db at a time to see if that gives you the extension you are looking for. I believe you will find that if you set it @4-6db higher than what Audyssey did you will find the bass you are looking for.
Thanks for the reply but I don't think Audyssey is the culprit, I tried turning the EQ off and the low end extension was the same. I did do the above procedure when running Audyssey as well. Maybe I'll hook my 703 up again and make sure it is the new set-up that is doing it and not something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
But no measurements...................
No, I have not done any measurements. What kind are you referring to, using a SPL meter?
post #3090 of 3236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKAudio View Post
No, I have not done any measurements. What kind are you referring to, using a SPL meter?
At the very least.
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