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Does your Samsung plasma suffer from horizontal line bleed? - Page 3

post #61 of 245
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzjpam View Post

I have the same problem and when I contacted the Samsung Tech this is the reply I got:

"The problem that you see is normal operation on phosphor based display panels due to how each individual phosphor cell is charged/discharged individually.

Plasma displays operate on X/Y/Z coordinates, this phenomenon you see is called "cross over charge", where certain columns/rows are crossed with the area that is being charged differently than the current area (X/Y/Z addressing).
this phenomenon will be seen on any phosphor based plasma display panel.
"

Samsung to state that this is "normal operation", and "seen on any phosphor based plasma display panel" is totally wrong. I went through 5 58A650's, all had line bleed, and I got the same answer from Samsung. I purchased a Panasonic to replace it and it has @ 1/10th the line bleed. I also have a Pioneer 151hd, and it has absolutely no line bleed.
post #62 of 245
I notice it on some Panasonic's. S-1's and G10's to be exact. I've only seen it when that green screen "Approved for all audiences" shows up before movie trailers.
post #63 of 245
I've been looking at the B550s and 650s - in four different stores, EVERY B550 had horizontal bleeding. Didn't really notice it during regular video, but in certain scenarios, it was hard to miss - and I set a couple of the TVs to movie mode, took it off torch.

So what's the deal, I wonder - do people just not notice it, or just not care?

-Ian
post #64 of 245
I just bought the PN50B650. Huge line bleed when using with pc (over HDMI). Just have a window that is not fully maximizd and you will see LOADS of bleeding. Drag the window up and down and the bleed moves with it (so it is definately not a ground loop thing). Have not noticed it on normal tv viewing yet. I have two panasonic plasmas also and do not recall seeing bleed like this on them with PC, but will have to check tonight.
post #65 of 245
Maybe it does, but I've never noticed it. PN42B450.

I don't want to go looking for it either, because I would drive myself nuts looking for it all the time after that.

Dan
post #66 of 245
Wow your bleed is worse then mine. That's 2 thick lines of black.
I have only 1 very thin line across the top, but yes it's ultra annoying especially when watching light colored scenes. Say goodbye to all dog fight movies, open skies is the worst for these bleeds.

Plasma is dying technology in my opinion, there are way too many negative pirks.
ABL eliminates true white, and horizontal bleeds ruins clear scenes, burin ins.
With LCD you only have to deal with lamp bleeds, but plasmas seem to have so many bad pirks.

Why can't I vote on this thread, I like to add my plasma into the bleeds.
post #67 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post

I've been looking at the B550s and 650s - in four different stores, EVERY B550 had horizontal bleeding. Didn't really notice it during regular video, but in certain scenarios, it was hard to miss - and I set a couple of the TVs to movie mode, took it off torch.

So what's the deal, I wonder - do people just not notice it, or just not care?

-Ian

People notice, that's why LCD sells better.
People just don't complain because it can't be fixed, so complaining won't help. Complaining would only be meaningful if it could be fixed, but since it comes with Plasma, your only solution is to sell the TV.
post #68 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSD22 View Post

People notice, that's why LCD sells better.
People just don't complain because it can't be fixed, so complaining won't help. Complaining would only be meaningful if it could be fixed, but since it comes with Plasma, your only solution is to sell the TV.

58B560 here, no line bleed in my set that I have noticed. Also, no pink hue, watched the Stanley Cup, and no buzz. If there are issues with my particular set, I have yet to see or hear them.

Mike
post #69 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by localnet View Post

58B560 here, no line bleed in my set that I have noticed. Also, no pink hue, watched the Stanley Cup, and no buzz. If there are issues with my particular set, I have yet to see or hear them.

Mike

Maybe you're very lucky, but I serious doubt your TV has no bleed it may be a very very thin line somewhere near the top or bottom where it's hard to notice.

Try turning All White on your Plasma's burn in preventor.
The bleed will only show when the background is white or an ultra light color.

Turn on all white so that your screen is filled with white, then look carefully, you may be surprised.
post #70 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSD22 View Post

Maybe you're very lucky, but I serious doubt your TV has no bleed it may be a very very thin line somewhere near the top or bottom where it's hard to notice.

Try turning All White on your Plasma's burn in preventor.
The bleed will only show when the background is white or an ultra light color.

Turn on all white so that your screen is filled with white, then look carefully, you may be surprised.

Seriously? This makes me laugh. It's like saying... O.k. stand on your head, put your left leg north and your right arm west. Then see if everything looks upside down, you have a problem.

If someone doesn't see the problem with normal viewing, then there is no problem to them! I don't see it. He doesn't see it. MANY others don't see it.

Dan
post #71 of 245
No bleeding or other issues on my PN50B650.
post #72 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Seriously? This makes me laugh. It's like saying... O.k. stand on your head, put your left leg north and your right arm west. Then see if everything looks upside down, you have a problem.

If someone doesn't see the problem with normal viewing, then there is no problem to them! I don't see it. He doesn't see it. MANY others don't see it.

Dan

So everybody who does see it is lying then.
If look at the poll, you'll see that more people voted for seeing then not, so I guess we are all crazy.

Like I said, it's possible that not all Plasmas have this issue, but it is an issue that many Plasmas do have.

If you don't see it great, you should be considered lucky. But for those of us who do see it, there is nothing illusional about it. And we don't need to stand on our heads to notice it.

If you have anything positive to add, please do, otherwise flamming me won't make the lines go away.
post #73 of 245
Finally!!! A thread for horizontal/ bleed issues. I too am an unfortunate victim of this. My sammy PN50A650 has been displaying 2 distinct horizontal bandings (one 2/3 area just above the middle of the screen; tho other all the way near the bottom) since I bought it in April. It's visible in dark or white scenes as well as on the all white screen from the screen burn protection menu. It isn't very prominent but since I'm not a videophile I can live with it but for others out there...............

I have read everyone's post from the last 3 pages of this forum and I have a question as well as a suggestion moving forward:

1) Can everyone describe the location of these bandings exactly on their sets as I have above to see if we can all pinpoint and come up with a consensus that we're all on the same boat? If by some miracle a majority of us have all these bandings on the same area of our screens- then boy do we have something to talk about........

2) And the million dollar question that's been keeping me up since I made this expensive purchase- Will these bandings start to get worse and become more prominent leading to something else? For the two months that I've owned this set, I can't tell you the number of times I've sat down each time and while turning on the set thought to myself 'Hope I don't see any additional bleeds today' or 'Hope my current bandings haven't gotten any worse today' which leads to a quick inspection process, a huge sigh of relief and more times than not HDTV bliss untill the next day when this whole process starts all over again. I guess it's the initial anxiety that's so intolerable and the long term implications looking forward. So all you owners out there that have had any sets with these banding/ bleed issues for a longer period of time- let me know what to expect moving on. Feel free to dish it out. I'll take the good and the bad
post #74 of 245
One line across the top, about 2/8 of the way down the screen.
Always noticeable in white, slightly bearable in other colors.
post #75 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSD22 View Post

So everybody who does see it is lying then.
If look at the poll, you'll see that more people voted for seeing then not, so I guess we are all crazy.

Like I said, it's possible that not all Plasmas have this issue, but it is an issue that many Plasmas do have.

If you don't see it great, you should be considered lucky. But for those of us who do see it, there is nothing illusional about it. And we don't need to stand on our heads to notice it.

If you have anything positive to add, please do, otherwise flamming me won't make the lines go away.

I never said that you can't get the display to show the "problem". Obviously you see it. I'm not questioning that, nor that others can see it. What made me laugh was how you explained to find the problem. I don't watch much TV of all white screens or a screen filled with ultra light colors. I know it's probably the best way to display the line bleed, but it just made me chuckle.

I wasn't intending to flame you. It's just that I read this forum and how everyone is looking for all the tiny things that bother them about their displays. Many of the problems are ones like you mention, only noticeable in very particular circumstances, and not in most typical viewing. We take for granted how incredible our displays are, nit picking every potential flaw.

I agree it is a bummer if you see this problem.

Dan
post #76 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

I never said that you can't get the display to show the "problem". Obviously you see it. I'm not questioning that, nor that others can see it. What made me laugh was how you explained to find the problem. I don't watch much TV of all white screens or a screen filled with ultra light colors. I know it's probably the best way to display the line bleed, but it just made me chuckle.

I wasn't intending to flame you. It's just that I read this forum and how everyone is looking for all the tiny things that bother them about their displays. Many of the problems are ones like you mention, only noticeable in very particular circumstances, and not in most typical viewing. We take for granted how incredible our displays are, nit picking every potential flaw.

I agree it is a bummer if you see this problem.

Dan

Look unless you have first hand experience with the issue you're really not in a position to give your opinion on it. You might be one of those lucky people to get a perfect Plasma panel with no line bleed, so you think that we are nit picking.

This problem my friend is not nit picking, it's so evident that it ruins movies.
Imaging watching a beautiful snow filled movie such as The Day after Tomorrow or Vertical Limit, or March of the Penguins and seeing a giant black line running across the center of the screen. Now imagine that everytime a film jumps into a lighter scene, unless all you plan on watching is "Underworild" and "The Crow" this problem becomes extremely evident.

This is not something that only shows when the screen is in Flash White mode, it's there everytime the screen shows lighter color tones. Now the last I checked, not too many films take place entirely at night or in doors.

This problem is so annoying that it even tops motion blur and LCD backlight bleeding in my books. Because my secondary TV is an Sammy LN40A550, I'm no stranger to LCD lamp bleed and LCD motion blur, but this black line across the screen is more annoying then both.

What I'm saying is, you should really try to find a TV with this issue and then make your judgement, because right now you're making a decision based off of second guessing. Until you find yourself staring at a giant black line across the screen, you have no idea what we are experiencing.

Motion blur, and LCD lamp bleed is nit picking because they don't severely alter the original image. A giant black line across the screen is far from nit picking, because no film director ever intended a movie to be seen with a giant black line down the center.

Imagine this-
Spielberg : "Wait, wait, wait, don't shoot just yet, just let me draw this giant black line down the center of the camera lense. Perfect, now action"
post #77 of 245
I believe the discussion has moved away from what was being talked about on the first couple of pages. You guys seem to be talking about some kind of fixed screen nonuniformity, rather than the dynamic line bleed that occurs with high contrast horizontal shapes on screen. The former sounds like a certain flaw of the stricken sets, the latter is a common but much less troublesome quirk of the technology.

jeff
post #78 of 245
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSD22 View Post

Imaging watching a beautiful snow filled movie such as The Day after Tomorrow or Vertical Limit, or March of the Penguins and seeing a giant black line running across the center of the screen.

This problem is so annoying that it even tops motion blur and LCD backlight bleeding in my books.

Until you find yourself staring at a giant black line across the screen, you have no idea what we are experiencing.

A giant black line across the screen is far from nit picking, because no film director ever intended a movie to be seen with a giant black line down the center.

Imagine this-
Spielberg : "Wait, wait, wait, don't shoot just yet, just let me draw this giant black line down the center of the camera lense. Perfect, now action"

A giant black line down the center of the screen? Yes, that would surely be a problem for me, and also cause me to immediately return the set. Surely your display is defective. Seems you would have noticed within minutes of first seeing the TV in your home. Just a few posts back weren't you saying that "I have only 1 very thin line across the top"

Yes, I will bow out of this, and hope you find a solution, seriously. It's obviously very annoying to you and others.

Dan

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenjp View Post

I believe the discussion has moved away from what was being talked about on the first couple of pages. You guys seem to be talking about some kind of fixed screen nonuniformity, rather than the dynamic line bleed that occurs with high contrast horizontal shapes on screen. The former sounds like a certain flaw of the stricken sets, the latter is a common but much less troublesome quirk of the technology.

jeff

I agree. They are two different issues. One caused by large changes in brightness (voltage) of horizontal images. The other, like KSD22 is describing, is a static problem that is always there. I think a new thread regarding these static lines should be started, because it is not the same issue that the original poll is intended for.

Dan
post #79 of 245



Okay I took a photo with my Cell Phone, just so you have an idea.
The picture is not very clear, but it gives you an idea.

Now my line is very thin, not nearly as thick as the original posters lines. But regardless it's there and it stretches across the whole screen, at all times.
As a still it's barely noticeable but when the image moves and the line crosses the path of the picture it becomes very annoying. To the point where Ive moved my Plasma back into the bedroom and put my LCD back into the living room.
I feel sorry for the orignal poster cause his line is super thick and there are two of them, as if one isn't annoying enough.
post #80 of 245
I believe the problem is not a different issue, it's just as the original poster described. A line that exists on very light toned scenes.
A line best described as a darker color tone then the rest of the picture.
Looking at the original poster boxing pictures I am convinced that all our problems are of the same nature.
Except my line is much thinner then his, thank god.

As for returning the set, I've been told that these plasma lines are the same as category as dead pixels or back light bleeding in LCDs and does not qualify as a valid malfunction.
So, I cannot return it, unless I pay a restocking fee for returning a so called perfectly good TV.
A perfectly good TV with a line across the center.
I'm only glad that my line is not as thick as some others that I've seen.
post #81 of 245
For some reason, your picture isn't showng up for me. My last words on this...

They are not the same issue. His is inherant to plasma technology, when a bright horizontal line suddenly stops next to something less bright, the line carries through incorrectly for some distance. You can see that in his photo it is caused by the bright ropes of the boxing ring suddenly ending at the boxers body, which is lower brightness than the ropes. If the ropes were 4" higher in picture, say at his shoulders, the dark lines would follow through his shoulder area.

What you are describing is a fixed line that is always diplayed. Honestly, it sounds as though an entire row, or more, of your plama cells aren't functioning properly.

Do you see this issue with other displays of your same model? Can you return it?

Dan
post #82 of 245
You're right, we have different problems. I think both me and Chere have the same problem, because it's also evident in All White mode in Burn In Menu. If it were a simple image bleed, it would not show on All White setting as there is no image to generate the bleed.
You're right, my problem is totally different then the original posters. In fact I don't have a bleeding issue at all, aside from that one row on the top, I have seen no other black lines anywhere.

As for returning, I've been told that this is something common from all Plasmas just some are lucky to have a perfect panel while others not so lucky. It would be like returning an LCD due to Lamp Bleeds, so no I cannot return as a malfunction.
post #83 of 245
So have you noticed if your issue has stayed consistent (without worsening or improving) this whole time? And how long have you had this problem?
post #84 of 245
Had it since I bought it.
No difference it's always the same.
But always annoying. Why don't put up some pictures of your lines and I can tell you if mine looks worse or better
post #85 of 245
I'll try. In the meantime I'm curious- how long have you had your set for? When did you buy it?
post #86 of 245
Add the Samsung PN50B540 to the list of models affected. The banding issue doesn't happen on all of the Samsung Plasmas. I played around with the floor model and could not produce the same banding.
I have gone through 3 Samsung sets in 5 days.

#1 Samsung PN50B650 returned and 100% money back for LOUD BUZZING sound.
#2 Samsung PN50B540 returned and 100% money back for increasing number of dead pixels
#3 Samsung PN50B540 retuned and 100% money back for BANDING issue.

Now I have no TV at home as I am researching on a new LCD screen. Plasmas have driven me off the cliff because my BACK is now aching from loading and unloading, mounting and unmounting the Plasma screen.
post #87 of 245
Ouch. 'Hope you have better luck on your new lcd display. Good luck.
post #88 of 245
Just picked up a PN50B450. Tons of banding. It's literally a banding bonanza when the lights go out.
post #89 of 245
What a disappointment...I just got my PN58B860 from amazon and within a few days i got 4 thin lines...when I was doing the break-in the for the 1st 100 hours it was all good...then on the 4th day of the break in I noticed the 4 lines during the gray colors...so sad...This TV is a beauty....This is it...I give up on plasma...I had a Panasonic for a week, but too dark...tried this Samsung (no buzz) but the lines did it for me...too much tinkering with plasma to deal with...nothing worse then having a $2500 tv and worrying when I turn it on what I might find...I should be enjoying the TV not worrying about it...
post #90 of 245
It's funny because I too also watch HDnet fights and also get the line bleed from the ropes on both my Panasonic g10 and V10. The pictures from your Samsung reaffirm (at least in my opinion) that this IS a quirk of plasma technology. If this is prevalent over multiple makes and models, then what does that tell you? Honestly, the right circumstances have to present to see this. I really don't worry about it or search it out.
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