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Paradigm Reference Signature Sub 25 - Page 2

post #31 of 1378
I wouldn't expect much of a difference with music. Both subs are very similar in principle. If calibrated to similar levels , why wouldn't they sound almost alike? It would probably take a movie soundtrack with deep, heavy bass to tell them apart.

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post #32 of 1378
tried it with 20amp breaker, good improvement compared to the servo 15v1,then I put on the 30 amp breaker , huge upgrade in performance!1.Try moving it around in the room if possible. I went from right side of centre channel to left, it filled the 13X16 room better with less vibration
post #33 of 1378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

I bought one of these units (Serial #58) and have been running an A-B comparison with my Velodyne F-1800R 18" sub maufactured in Nov. of 1997.

I am operating the unit on 120 volts.

Initial impression is I cannot tell a difference. I want the Signature to sound better to justify its purchase, but I cannot do that at present. I am strictly classical music, and I haven't played my TELARC SACD's yet.

Try connecting the sub to 240 volts!! Also do you have the Perfect Bass Kit to calibrate the sub with????

Could you please take some high resolution pictures of the unit and post them here?? Anyone?

I am still in the market for a new sub and the Sub 25 is currently at the top of my list... I might also consider a pair of the new Sub 15's along with the PBK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

I wouldn't expect much of a difference with music. Both subs are very similar in principle. If calibrated to similar levels , why wouldn't they sound almost alike? It would probably take a movie soundtrack with deep, heavy bass to tell them apart.

+1 but again I am curious if he calibrated his sub with the Perfect Bass Kit..

Thanks,
s
post #34 of 1378
I was planning on calibrating the sub when I upgrade the D1 to the new V2 .It is the birdseye maple. It does look good!!
post #35 of 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

I'm shocked.

Have you tried listening to other type of music? Maybe the grunt of the SUB 25 will be more obvious.

The Velodyne does seem more smooth. The Sub 25 exhibits more of a "thump".
post #36 of 1378
Looks like a nice sub to me. Seems to be aimed directly at the JL F113/ DD18 market. I'd like to see the comparo done. 95-100db in a moderate size room at 9hz may not be out of line considering the physics involved. Outdoors, or in a gymnasium? Of course not.

Mikey Mo,

Velodyne has always been known as SQ first and foremost. I wouldn't expect any sub to significantly outperform them at moderate levels with typical material. Throw some crazy deep bass at them both, or jack the level up to more gratuitous levels and see what happens.
post #37 of 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo1 View Post

They kinda screwed up on the power requirements... That should read 20 amp circuit on a 220v line, and a 30amp circuit on a 110v circuit..

"Due to the incredibly high power and tremendous output the SUB 25's grille is non-removable." Give me a freakin break..

Yes, I read that error too.

I wonder how much that thing must (power) consuming too.
post #38 of 1378
My review of the SUB 25 will be posted on Hometheatersound.com on May the 1st.
post #39 of 1378
Thanks for the heads up Randall
post #40 of 1378
Thread Starter 
thanks and i look forward to reading your review...
post #41 of 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Smith View Post

My review of the SUB 25 will be posted on Hometheatersound.com on May the 1st.


Yes, very nice to see you here Randall....

Participation on writers part is always very welcome, Kal Rubinson has been here for years, and is always a great help to pop some of the balloons that get somewhat inflated around here from time to time...

Always love to see honest educated thoughts instead of biased opinions.
post #42 of 1378
Thanks a lot guys. The site has already posted the review, so take a look if you would like.
post #43 of 1378
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Smith View Post

Thanks a lot guys. The site has already posted the review, so take a look if you would like.

That is an excellent review, thanks.

I am curious about this quote:

"According to Paradigm, this amp is capable of producing 3000W of power into a "real" load. Considering that only 1800W of continuous power is available from the wall outlet, how do they do this? Paradigm uses their DSP chip to perform what they call Power Factor Correction, which allows the amp to deliver anywhere from 3000W to 4000W for up to a few seconds"

Did you test the Sub 25 connected to a 120V line only and not with a 240V line that Paradigm recommends? Or did Paradigm revise the power output down from the originally stated 7500W peak?

Thanks,
s
post #44 of 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit View Post

That is an excellent review, thanks.

I am curious about this quote:

"According to Paradigm, this amp is capable of producing 3000W of power into a "real" load. Considering that only 1800W of continuous power is available from the wall outlet, how do they do this? Paradigm uses their DSP chip to perform what they call Power Factor Correction, which allows the amp to deliver anywhere from 3000W to 4000W for up to a few seconds"

Did you test the Sub 25 connected to a 120V line only and not with a 240V line that Paradigm recommends? Or did Paradigm revise the power output down from the originally stated 7500W peak?

Thanks,
s

I should have noted that the SUB 25 was connected to a 110 outlet.

The specs say that the sustained output of the amp is 3000 watts for a few seconds with a dynamic peak of 7500 watts, which I assume is only possible for a split second.
post #45 of 1378
I can't believe that plugging this sub into a 220v source vs a 110v source would make any difference at all. The powersupply is simply converting 220 to 110 anyway.

Maybe in an absolutley extreme volume level, it might make a difference.

It is the capacitors that give it such a huge wattage rating. This is output in micro seconds, not minutes.

Specs tend to get way over read. The important thing is how this sub sounds. Paradigm seems to have done a good job engineering it, so I hope it lives up to it.
post #46 of 1378
So IF it is limited to 1800watts(power from an outlet) any higher power ratings are based on capacitor specs in the amp?
post #47 of 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls200p View Post

So IF it is limited to 1800watts(power from an outlet) any higher power ratings are based on capacitor specs in the amp?

You would need an oscilloscope to test the amp to really know.
post #48 of 1378
I'm guessing you didn't check how deep it played. I'd like to know what kind of extension it has before it hits -3db.
post #49 of 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbuudo07 View Post
I'm guessing you didn't check how deep it played. I'd like to know what kind of extension it has before it hits -3db.
In my room, I was able to achieve sub 15 Hz output in room. Attached is an in-room response of the SUB 25 at the listening position. This was taken early on and before I installed the PBK-1 room correction.

 

SUB 25- pre PBK-1.doc 33.5k . file
post #50 of 1378
Nice review. The JL enjoyed quite a while on top for the comercially available sealed subs. I am sure this will "inspire" other manufacturers to new performance levels.
post #51 of 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Smith View Post

Thanks a lot guys. The site has already posted the review, so take a look if you would like.

Tell me if I am being unfair, but every page on the hometheatersound website has a top and bottom banner advertisement for Anthem or Paradigm. Your only choice was to give this piece of equipment a glowing review. Not that HiFi reviewers need to avoid the appearance of conflict the way that a judge does, but when every page of the website contains an ad from the manufacturer of the product you are reviewing, I think it's reasonable to question the objectivity of the review. This may be a great sub, but I have to discount the value of this review on the basis of conflict of interest.
post #52 of 1378
Sorry that you feel that way. Yes, Anthem/Paradigm is among our biggest advertisers, but that has nothing to do with the result of the review. Almost every audio publication is advertiser driven, just the way it is. The Soundstage! Network has built a reputation of being fair, objective, as well as factually correct for more than a decade, so unless you know that there is a conflict of interest, it is unfair for you to suggest it.

I challenge your listening impressions of this subwoofer to discount my review rather than allowing an advertising banner to do it. Thats the fair way to do it.
post #53 of 1378
I don't think anyone has done anything malicious, and I don't mean to even impugn your integrity, and I apologize if I have. I don't intend to accuse you of being dishonest. But real world, is there any way a negative review of this product could have been publised? Can you point to an example of a negative review that the Soundstage network (not you particularly) has given to a significant product of a significant advertiser? That would probably cause me to change my view that the value of the review should be discounted. But otherwise, it strikes me as difficult to believe that someone can give a neutral review of a major advertiser/customer. I doubt I could in my business.
post #54 of 1378
Well, I agree on many of your points, you do not see many negative reviews of an audio product, regardless of whether or not someone is an advertiser or not. Also, not sure if you have noticed this in the past, but advertisers tend to buy more advertisement the month their product is being reviewed. That isn't only true of our website, its true of all audio publications. However, this doesn't mean that the reviews are falsely positive.

As always, people should not buy solely based upon a positive review of a product. Hopefully, readers will come to respect a reviewers past work and take his or her opinion for what its worth, then make a choice of which audio products they wish to audition.
post #55 of 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by gchuva View Post

Can you point to an example of a negative review that the Soundstage network (not you particularly) has given to a significant product of a significant advertiser?

Truthfully, I don't think I've read a negative review of a piece of audio equipment before on any audio review site.
post #56 of 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

Truthfully, I don't think I've read a negative review of a piece of audio equipment before on any audio review site.

I have read negative reviews before, and could point a couple out if required.
post #57 of 1378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Smith View Post

Well, I agree on many of your points, you do not see many negative reviews of an audio product, regardless of whether or not someone is an advertiser or not. Also, not sure if you have noticed this in the past, but advertisers tend to buy more advertisement the month their product is being reviewed. That isn't only true of our website, its true of all audio publications. However, this doesn't mean that the reviews are falsely positive.

As always, people should not buy solely based upon a positive review of a product. Hopefully, readers will come to respect a reviewers past work and take his or her opinion for what its worth, then make a choice of which audio products they wish to audition.

I also agree on several of your points. I think this particular case stands out because of the extent of the Anthem/Paradigm ads on the website. From my cursory review, the Anthem/Paradigm ads far exceed ads for other brands/products on the site.

For full disclosure, I am also a little biased. I am about to pull the trigger on the Fathoms and I hate reading that they have been knocked off as King of the Hill by the Paradigm. I am really going to have to look into therapy. I am taking all of this too seriously. But subwoofer problems are some of the best problems to have.
post #58 of 1378
You know its a nice piece when the reviewer has one at his or hers home.
post #59 of 1378
Do reviewers really pay retail for the equipment they review? If that's true, such purchases would impress me. If not, they are just making a smart business decision.
post #60 of 1378
Audio reviews have changed since Bose attempted to sue Consumer Reports back in the early 90's for a bad review. I agree that most reviews tend to be "nice" to products they seem not to enjoy. I'm not just speaking about this publication, but pretty much most of them. On a side note, your review was well written Randall. I only wish you could put up a few more numbers for the equipment
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