Band of Brothers DVD, HBO MPEG-2, HD DVD & Blu-ray comparison *PIX* - Page 6

Originally Posted by sspears

I believe this title was filtered with the Digi Vision box. HBO strongly dislikes grain.

Originally Posted by DrXym

This thread is stupid. The DNR in the shots is so slight that it wouldn't hurt normal viewing. It's barely noticeable even in the still closeups. Certainly nothing to cancel an order for. Now the DNR in Patton or Zulu are reasons to cancel an order, but not this.

Originally Posted by Canary_Jules

My immediate thoughts are whether the reviewer has had opportunity to access the HD-DVD version of BOB. Had he been able to do the comparisons which Xylon has enabled us to do he might not have been quite so happy - though no doubt the Blu-ray version of BOB is still a fine presentation in its own right. It's just that it isn't perhaps the best ever presentation. No doubt most audiences aren't going to notice an application of DNR, but then most audiences don't own projectors and huge screens. Debates like this are part of the fun of Home Cinema!

Originally Posted by Canary_Jules

What's 'normal' viewing?

So its HBO who made that descision and not Warner?

Originally Posted by Canary_Jules

But these are the AVScience forums and folks who frequent here don't have 'normal' set ups or watch 'normally'. We've spent thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of shekels on AV equipment to get the best and biggest displays that our incomes will permit. In such circumstances small degradations in quality, such as are apparent between the Blu and HD-DVD versions of BOB, do matter and some guys who have both versions have already said that in motion the effects of the slight DNR on the Blu discs are more noticeable than on the screencaps.

Originally Posted by sspears

The HBO titles are controlled by HBO. They dictate what is done, not WHV.

Originally Posted by Gary Murrell

why in the hell would HBO hire a team of filmmakers that knowingly would make a grainy gritty WWII series a la Saving Pvt. Ryan and then make sure it was DNR'd to remove the grain on video release, DVD and BD

someone needs to slap whoever at HBO is responsible for this and hard

-Gary

Originally Posted by ack_bk

I apprciate the work of Xylon and others, and can also appreciate their stance on DNR and trying to hold studios accountable. Some people on AVS seem to go a little overboard though with this stuff. Now I prefer the HD DVD grain levels to the Blu-Ray, which clearly has some slight DNR, but to not rent or buy this BD because of this (DNR) seems extreme to me (unless you had the HD DVD). It is clearly better than the DVD and the cable/sat broadcasts that I have seen. There have been some titles (such as Gangs Of New York) where I canceled my order because of the excessive DNR and EE, but BoB is not even close to being on that level IMHO.

Originally Posted by tsb

since I've seen the series in the last year I can easily wait for a better release

I want to go for the Japanese HD DVD set, but I think we'll get a better BD release somewhere eventually

Originally Posted by tsb

since I've seen the series in the last year I can easily wait for a better release

I want to go for the Japanese HD DVD set, but I think we'll get a better BD release somewhere eventually

Originally Posted by shadowrage

I still think it's the way Warner uses the VC-1 codec and not DNR. If any of the other studios that still use VC-1 were to encode it like .... weinstein(?). Weinsten and Warner are the only VC-1 studios left?? at least Uni got it right with Doomsday when they used it.

It would probably look completely identical to the HD-DVD. Now if Warner would have just used the same AVC encode, well then they would have to look the same. Stupid studio/codec exclusivity. Switch teams Warner, everyones doing it.

Originally Posted by zinfamous

I'm not knocking Xylon's work--I think he contributes more to these pages than 90% of the members, and I think it is excellent work.

However, it is incredibly strange that so many people look at 2 screen grabs...2 SCREEN GRABS and are "OMFGDNRNOGRAINBBQ DO NOT WANT!!!" It's insane.

the majority of you that dump on this set haven't even seen it to compare--Many are admitting as much in their venomous posts. Those of us that have watched through this set seem to have come to some consensus:
--softness and detail fluctuate throughout.
--the majority of the grain remains throughout the series. (hell, in some shots, you can't see anything BUT grain--Eindhoven episode)
--it is clearly better than SD (though I don't think it's "far and away superior")

...being that those of us who have watched it agree that the softness fluctuates throughout, shouldn't you take the information you gain from a handful of pics with a grain of salt? And seriously, what kind of sense does it make to assume that a 2 second example of "DNR" means that it has been applied to the remaining 600 minutes? Ridiculous....

I guess this is the wrong forum--tech buffs more than film buffs. I know there are some true film fans in here, and I enjoy a lot of those comments. ...But when you take a series like this, and brand it "unpalatable" b/c of what you suddenly call DNR--even if it isn't there (see Kaiser's recent post in the Baraka thread...)--you probably shouldn't be into film collecting in the first place.

I can appreciate the criticism of studios using sub-par techniques, erasing the director's vision and such, catering to the least common denominator....but come on! Crying the end of the world on a set like this is beyond petty. There is absolutely nothing in the BD presentation of Band of Brothers that ruins the content of the series. Seriously, anyone willing to hold judgment until they hear what Hanks/Spielberg think about the transfer? What if they dub it "flawless?" Would heads explode?

Filmmakers are storytellers first and foremost. I personally can't understand owning a copy of, I don't know...."Click," just b/c it's on BD...what's the point? Who cares what the picture looks like when it's vomit on celluloid to begin with? Taste aside, so many enthusiasts in here seem to define film as PQ first, then Audio, then........story? what's story?

yeah, yeah, I know...wrong forums....

Originally Posted by 42041

It's unfortunate that additional DNR has been applied but ultimately the loss of detail isn't great and I think this thread is quite an overreaction

Originally Posted by Hughmc

I think as of late the whole BD forum is an overreaction to EVERY title and there are a large number of us who feel the same. It has become the "new drug". Heading off any comments, we that feel this way LOVE films and DO NOT settle for mediocrity or less than as some would try to lead everyone to believe. Condescending posts that alude to that belief do an injustice to those who feel like I and so many others do.


I certainly do not speak for the mods, but I will say with assurance that the mods feel the same and some comments in recent BD software threads by mods reflect that stance. When I got booted out of a thread, a first in four years of heavy posting at AVS, I mentioned to a mod in a PM how it must get old hearing the same bickering over and over about PQ issues. He got a chuckle out of it, because he and the other mods know. Its beyond old for a majority of us.

Many of us who do want the best possible PQ, but we feel like we are back to where the forum was last year with that other major forum dividing issue. It becomes an your either with us or against us situation, all or nothing, and it pisses me off, because I know it doesn't have to be that way.

Most important for many of us is that we know the PQ issues are there, but we aren't or try not to be extremists. We do want the closest possible presentation to film and the theatre as we can get and because some of us take the stance we do, it does not mean we don't want the best PQ.

We would probably get more done and more results from studios to make changes if we were close to being in agreement as opposed to thinking if one person or group doesn't agree entirely with the other, he or they are against us and our intent for better PQ.

IMO perception and approach on how to deal with these issues needs to change and we will get make more progress in the long term for the better of this forum and especially BD.

Originally Posted by guste

These screencap threads (or the threads dedicated to each BR release) should include a poll, so that those who actually own the movie can let it be known how they feel about the PQ. Something with several poll options, so that those who are on the fence about the purchase can get a better idea of what the general mood is.

I suggest this, because it isn't as simple as two warring factions. It's many shades of grey, with varying levels of tolerance. Sure you have the extremes on both ends, but I think a lot of people are more moderate, ie. I want the best possible PQ, but we don't live in a perfect world, so I'll buy what I find acceptable.

It's an imperfect solution, but it's better than this back and forth.

Originally Posted by rover2002

I actually find most posters are mature in there posting with the few exceptions to the rule being delt with by mods.

Originally Posted by Hughmc

Many of us who do want the best possible PQ, but we feel like we are back to where the forum was last year with that other major forum dividing issue. It becomes an your either with us or against us situation, all or nothing, and it pisses me off, because I know it doesn't have to be that way.

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

I think there are a couple of reasons that some get their donuts all knotted up over this title.
One: There IS another HD release that many believe is more faithful. Already released. (Granted as an import and on a format many who even bought in are abandoning)
Two: Why someone would feel compelled to do ANYTHING to the PQ DNR-wise on this title which is SUPPOSED to look gritty, grainy as a stylistic choice. Who made this call? Why? Even if it IS only in a handful of scenes, it does set a scary precedent. Universal released "THE THING" on BD and basically DNR'd the WHOLE film. The HDdvd, (which I DO own) looks better to most. So who's to say when and to what "grainy" film it will happen to again? We've seen "Patton", "Dark City"...
Will "Saving Private Ryan" have a similar "tweaking"...? I watched it in HD (the real HD, not that stretch-o-vision thing they sometimes do) on TNT last week and it looked TOTALLY smoothed over and just wrong.
So I think that's why some ARE making a big noise even if it seems like it is only in a handful of scenes now.


(or, everyone here is just whackapoodles...)