The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 52

I drove a set of MMGs with an RX-V3300 with reasonable success. I did get poorer results with the speaker impedance set to 4 ohms versus 8 ohms - clipping came on at much lower volumes. I even used the Yamaha to drive my newer 1.6QRs with approximately the same results.

Then I bought my NAD t785 and the difference is like night and day. It will drive the 1.6s as loud (and clean) as I care to.

Thanks for the reply, sounds like it will work for a trial. If I decide to keep the MMGs I'll investigate a separate amp to drive them.

Hi mpenton,


I did more or less what you did. I bought a pair of MMGs and drove them with a higher-end consumer grade integrated amplifier (Onkyo TX SR 806, 250 watts/channel into 4 ohm). The speakers sounded phenominal, but some distortion could be heard at moderate (my wife would claim high) listening levels. I went to an external amplifier, and the distortion completely disappeared.

You're doing exactly what I would recommend. Try the MMGs. Most amplifiers have enough raw power for them. What they often lack is clean power at the levels you need to drive Maggies to - hence the distortion. What happens for your case depends on your specific amplifier, room, preferred listening levels, and likely a host of other factors. You should have a great idea how good the MMGs can sound, and they could well work with your current configuration.

Best wishes,


Paul

I just purchased a pair of used Magnepan MG 20.1 speakers and I am having a problem with one of the speakers.

The right speaker is distorting in the bass/midrange frequencies. I didn't hear it at first but then when I moved closer towards the speaker I heard it and when I knelt down in front of the speaker I could hear distortion coming from the bottom of the speaker up to about halfway up the length of the speaker only in the bass/midrange part of the speaker. The ribbon tweeter is perfectly fine.

The problem is evident regardless of the volume level that I am listening to the speakers at from soft to loud. I also tried playing different types of music and the problem was still present.

I triple checked all of my connections and checked the fuses and everything is correct.

I am a long-time Magnepan user and have owned over 6 different models of Maggies in the past 15 years from 2.7's to 3.5's, 3.6's and now the 20.1's.

Has anyone else ever experienced a similar problem with their Maggies?

I know that the problem is the speaker, I just don't know what is causing it and what the solution is. I am planning on calling Magnepan today as well to see what they say.

I would appreciate any help or advice on the matter.

^^
Never experienced this myself but it really sounds like 1) some wiring has come un-glued or delaminated from the bass/mid mylar panel at that part where you hear distortion or 2) the mylar itself has worked itself loose from the frame, buzzing about.

The adhesive used to bond the wire to the mylar could come delaminated if the speaker was excessively exposed to sunlight (UV) or high temps (maybe in storage?)

Calling Magnepan is your best bet. You can re-glue it if you are the DIY type (Magnepan will sell you the adhesive) but it'll require removing the cloth socks. The 20.1 has 2 panels fastened together so the magnets can push-pull each side. IMO, depending on what they tell you, it may be best to bite the bullet on shipping and send them in for repair.

I hope you got the shipping cartons from the seller

Please keep us informed what Magnepan tells you & hope it works out.

BTW - I'm also a long time Maggie owner myself, MG-1 > 1.6's > 3.6's for fronts. The 20.1 is an awesome speaker, wish I had the space & the money to get to the top like you have

You have premium speakers there. I should be jealous
Anyway, as stated, I'd get in touch with Magnepan and also see if the dealer will simply exchange the pair. You spent premium dollars so I'd expect nothing less than premium service. Keep us informed.

Thanks to everyone for their input, I appreciate it.

I placed a call to Magnepan and I am waiting to hear back from them. I will most likely have to send these in to be repaired which may or may not end up costing big bucks, as much as $3,900 plus $500 in shipping costs, if they have to replace the drivers in both speakers. There is a chance that they can be repaired but I will have to wait and see what Magnepan says when they receive them.

Just for the record I did not buy these new from a dealer. I bought them used from someone who was the original owner. They were well taken care of and the damage that is causing the problem with the distortion was most likely caused during mis-handling during shipping according to what Magnepan has told me.

More soon.

I'm guessing I had a similar sort of noise comming from one of my panels once that I will discribe as a buzz from the lower 1/3 section or so of one speaker, but it was not a sandwich like the MG20.1 and I'm not really all too familiar with the way its constructed.

My brand new speaker had somehow gotten a slight bend in it somewhere, impossible to see but there nontheless.

After describing this noise to the dealer he told me to bring it, which of course I did.

He took the speaker and laid it flat on the floor. I then watched as he took off his shoes and much to my horror, he steped on the panel and walked up and down the thing in small steps.

After what seemed an eternity, he stood it up and plugged it in and it was fine and still is to this day.

And people say these panels are fragile.
I say HA!

Interesting stuff. Well regardless of whether you step on your Maggies or send them back to Magnepan, good luck giantsteps.

I hadn't really noticed the name of the person I replied to before your post..

I tell a guy named "giantsteps" that the dealer walks on em and takes "small steps". If I had noticed his name I probably would have said the dealer took babysteps or something, just to add a little more humor to his situation that I'm sure he is not finding funny at all!

In my maggies, there are bars that I assume are the magnets, running the width of the panel. I think there are 3 or 4 of em in there at different hights.
It is one of these metal bars that had the slight bend that the panel was buzzing against.
Applying pressure in the opposite direction of the bend straighted it out enough so as not to be close enough to buzz anymore.

I have run into similar situations with these types of panels again, over the past 25 years. But what I do instead of walking on peoples speakers, since it just looks scary, is to put my head or knee against the section that buzzes and pull both sides of the speaker towards me.
I find this works just as well as steping on them and their owners do not freak out nearly as much as I did.
This is worth a shot before shipping them off and spending the money first, at least IMHO. Give it a shot, you've not much to lose, the thing is already "broken" for all intents and purposes.

I did it from the rear of the speaker every time, should anyone try this at home.

bigbrother, I'd probably do what you suggest first. As you said it's broken anyway so you have little to lose.

Greetings all. I am in the process of setting up a modest a/v system for a friend. Cost of the TV was about 950. Cost of the audio system will be much less. I am an enthusiast at heart and really like to impress people by showing them what kind of performance they can achieve on a budget.

I think that we will be using a Denon AVR-1611 for a receiver, equipped with Audyssey MultEQ. I would like to see him with a pair of MA RX1 speakers on the front wall, but they are a bit pricey at 599. Then I remembered the Magnepan MMG-W at 325. I have never heard them, but am impressed by what I have read.

What are the pros/cons/differences of something like the RX1 vs the MMG-W? I am somewhat familiar with characteristics of magneplanar technology, but I really need some new perspective and insight.

Our other option is to get a 5.0/5.1/7.1 satellite system at discount. Something like:

Yamaha NS-SP1800BL [Amazon]
Klipsch HDT 300 [Amazon]
Onkyo SKS-HT540 [Amazon]
Onkyo SKS-HT750 [Amazon]
Energy 5.1 Take Classic [Amazon]
Jamo S 426 HCS 3 [Amazon]

Or there is the possibility of scrapping the Denon with MultEQ and using an Onkyo package with Audyssey EQ (calibrated presets).

Onkyo HT-S3300 [Amazon]
Onkyo HT-S5300 [Amazon]
Onkyo HT-S6300 [Amazon]

Just giving an idea of our considerations. So now that I have effectively defamed the Magnepan forum with cheap products, let's get back to the real question of knowing whether the Magnepans are right for my application.

I've owned maggies for over 32 years and have tried all sorts of well known amps with them during that period. With my original Tympani 1d's, I had a Phase Linear 400 that had problems with them. I kept blowing the tweeter fuses in the Tympani's. I switched to a GAS Ampzilla with the exact same power rating and never blew another fuse. Something was obviously different between those two amps.

Nelson Pass is probably the most well thought of power amp guru around today and has designed some real gems. I own four of his Threshold power amps. I used a pair of S200's to bi amp a pair of MG3a's back in the late 80's early 90's, and with an active external crossover that sound was magnificent.

I currently use a Threshold S500, factory upgraded to E series equivalency to drive my maggie 1.7's. That is rated at 250 watts per side at 8 ohms and 500 a side at 4 ohms. It's from 1987 but still works perfectly. I also have a pure class A Threshold SA/4e that puts out 100 watts per channel of pure class A power at 8 ohms. Those Threshold amps do wonderful things with Magnepan speakers.

I have a pair of Magnepan 1.6's in my bedroom that I drive with an Emotiva XPA-2 with the same power ratings as the Threshold S500. Very Very nice combination between that amp and the 1.6's. I also own a pair of Emotiva XPA-1 monoblocs that put out one thousand watts each at 4 ohms. Talk about unlimited power...those amps have it.

I also still own an Adcom GFA 555 Mk2 that I've had hooked up to the maggies. It does a nice job, but doesn't sound as good as the Thresholds or Emotiva amps in my opinion.

The Tympani 1D's that I bought in 1978 were actually sold by Audio Research and had the Audio Research name and logo on the back plate. I think it said "Magneplaner speakers by Audio Research Corporation"

Hi GrandPixel,


Maggies might not be the best answer for what you're after. I haven't heard MMG-Ws, but I own (and LOVE) my pair of MMGs. I've heard many people state that the MMG is the best $600 speaker that can buy. I'd agree, but only with a few pretty big caveats:

- It's the best speaker $600 can buy if you're willing to have a LOT of clean power to drive it. 200 watts into 4 ohm is a good place to start - distortion is likely to be noticable below that unless you have a high end amp. The MMG-W is 5 ohm and 2 dB more efficient, so you MIGHT be able to get away with a bit less power. But, many people aren't too happy with Maggies and a standard grade integrated amplifier. I looked up the Denon reciever but Amazon doesn't state whether it's rated for 4 ohm loads or not - certainly check!

-Maggies, especially the entry-level ones, are weak in the base department. You'll need a sub, particularly since you're interested in HT. One the other hand, a 100-120 Hz cutoff will make life a bit easier on your reciever.

Placement can be an issue. I suspect the MMG-W will present fewer problems than MMGs, and Audyssey will make things a lot easier on you as well.

Basically, I'm not sure if you can make Maggies sing with the sort of budget/approach you're looking at.

You might try an alternate approach. I suspect you'd be hard pressed to find a new integrated amp that can drive Maggies well below $500. Very nice pre-HDMI amplifiers are dropping quite a bit in price on the used market (craigslist.com or similar). You might be able to pick up a good one, complete with Audyssey, for $100 or so with some shopping/research. Depending on the sound, you may need to add a decent solid-state external amplifier for a few hundred - see if the used amp can run the MMG-Ws first. You can generally get away with lower power on external amps compared to integrated amps since they typically run clean to higher percentages of their max load. For example, my Onkyo TX-SR-806 noticably distorts at -15 dB on my MMGs, but the manual claims it will go to +32. My external amp is rated at 300 WPC rather than 200 WPC on the Onkyo, but is clean and pure as the wind-driven snow. Throw in a reasonable used sub, and you're still below the cost of the TV.

Of course, you're at a 2.1 channel system at this point - many prefer HT in at least 5.1. Personally, I would see something like what I outlined above as a stepping stone to get there. Components could be traded out and additional channels could be added later.

Hope that helps,


Paul

First of all thanks Paul for taking the time to elaborate on the issue, and for trying to see it from my perspective, making it work on a budget by suggesting certain used equipment etc.

About the Denon though, if it will power a 4 ohm load, would it work well as long as we don't expect it to be loud? Or will it distort at even moderate levels?

If you're looking for a decent integrated amp, try the Onkyo A-9555 (still available new through Amazon). I just picked one up and it's fantastic. VERY solid and clean power. I also have an Emotiva XPA-5 and I would actually say that the Onkyo is a bit cleaner and handles dynamics a bit better with more punch and faster response.

The Onkyo is rated at 200 wpc at 4 ohms. It should handle the Maggies no problem. I'm very satisfied with mine.

Denon, like most mid-quality AVR manufacturers, does not approve 4 ohm loads on their equipment. That said, many of us, including me, have successfully used AVRs to power Maggies. ymmv

Hi GrandPixel,

I know Denon has a great reputation, but I've never owned one myself so I can't say too much. From the reports of others, it sounds like some Onkyo amps will power Maggies without noticible distortion. My guess is that there are so many variables that there isn't a solid answer.

The Onkyo A-9555 seems to be a 2-channel amp intended for serious listening. While my TX-SR-806 is in a comparable price range (slightly higher), it's intended for 5.1, numerous HDMI inputs, video upscaling, and many other tasks, so the amplifier undoubtedly recieved less attention. Basically, the A-9555 is a musical amplifier while my 806 is a home theater unit.

Individual amps might vary from unit to unit. I only heard distortion on my left speaker (it disappeared with the external amp, so it wasn't the speaker). This tells me if I had two amps like the one driving my right speaker, I might have been OK. I could also only notice it occasionally and at at higher volumes. It particularly stood out on loud vocals. I couldn't detect it at softer volumes. My wife never noticed it at all. My MMG's didn't sound bad on the Onkyo. Their strengths (detail, soundstage...) really came through. I could tell I had fantastic speakers that just needed more clean power to sound optimal. When I switched to an Odyssey Stratos ($1200 retail) external amp, I didn't notice a big improvement (a little, to be sure), but that annoying distortion was completely gone.

I don't consider my listening unusually loud (my wife would disagree, possibly my neighbors as well...). For home theater, you do want to have the flexibility to have some power. Alien death rays just aren't that convincing without some reasonable volume behind them...

And, getting to the same sound level take a lot more or less power depending on the room - my system is in a living room very open to the rest of the downstairs, and probably takes more power than a closed room.

I do think there is a decent chance the Denon reciever you're looking at could power MMG-Ws fine (assuming the particular amp is OK into 4 Ohm). But, I'd maintain that there is a chance you won't be happy with that as well. If 2 channel is all you're after, the Onkyo amp mentioned may be a great option.

Wish I could give you something more definite.


Paul

I regrettfully parted ways with my 15-year old pair of MMG's last month. They were excellent for music, but I never had the budget to turn them into part of an HT system.

Listed them on Craigslist for $300, and had them sold the next day. Someone was buying them as a present for his father, who had always wanted a pair of Maggies.

I used the proceeds to fund the purchase of three pairs of Polk Monitor 40's and a CS2 center.

What's funny is that there is now another listing on Craigslist for a "slightly used" pair of MMG's, along with a Rotel Amp. The owner is "looking to upgrade to a higher-end Maggie system". What are the odds that those are the same speakers ....

GrandPixel,
Harman Kardon works well with Maggies. I own both. The high current design of the HK's is not just hype. That's been a part of their design philosophy for many decades.
I also recommend Rotel and NAD.

Well, this will be a surround system but sacrificing the extra channels for nice front speakers in the beginning.

For those of you that have heard that Maggies have a very small sweet spot and that they do not have that much bass...
I can say that the 3.6r maybe got a bad rap for that. They have way much bass....(if you have nice power)...and if you do, what sweet spot? Now there is no sweet spot. Every spot is sweet unless you have the volume turned down to listening levels that is low. Then yeah, there is.
But when you can have the bass vibrate your concrete floor and the shock in the airwaves hit your chest(hard too) and hit the ceiling and back down to the floor at the same time....that is 3 dimensional.
These speakers can take ALOT of power. And when you give it to them....watchout!

i like your answer perfectly well, magnefied. i appreciate the response. having said that, i don't agree with you. i can hear 'veiled' and 'fat' and 'bloated'. and 'warm' (there's that word again). in a little while i'll post a bit about my experiences today. you're not gonna like it, but we hear things differently. nothing wrong with that

unfortunately, i'm coming around to your way of thinking, alien. the electronics are making more of a difference with the maggies than i expected. 50% over budget; imagine that. hey, i could work for the gub'mint!

A Day In The Life.....or, Damn McIntosh

it was the macs. damn macs. i don't like those things

so i drove to cincinnati today to listen to some maggies. figured i'm gonna be there an hour and a half, maybe two. but after listening for four hours, the clock struck seven and they threw me out and closed up.

the 3.6s were everything i had remembered. i won't bore you with my analysis of a speaker you already own and love, except to say i enjoyed listening to music again like i haven't in years. the head was bobbing, the foot was tapping. all the review buzzwords aside, these were just fun to listen to. so i'm definitely gonna get 'em. but now the new problem; buy now, or wait 3-4 months for the 3.7s to arrive. which led to my mcintosh problem...but i'm getting ahead of myself.

i started the day on vandersteens. before i got to any serious listening, i wanted to hear them. this dealer carries 'em, along with the maggies, so i thought what the hell? i've always heard great things about them, more people seem to swear by them than anything else, and i've never heard 'em before. i listened to the 2ce Sigs. i thought they sounded stupendous, especially for the price. i paid the same for my Focals and they aren't even in the same class. i got kinda pissed about that. they were driving the Vandies with Naim stuff. really opened 'em up well, i thought. anyway, i went and listened to the maggies. better than the vandies, of course, but not a ton. problem was, they were driving the maggies with some Adcom HT receiver to give 'em enough power. i wasn't impressed with it. while the bottom was good and tight, the upper ranges seemed a bit thin to me. i still loved the maggies, but i have a suspicion that better electronics would have made the top end a bit nicer (care to comment on that, alien?).

so has anyone heard of maggies being pushed by naim? i don't know a thing about the company and their stuff, but the power numbers seem a little short to me. i'm afraid they wouldn't keep the bass under control like the adcom did.

i was talking to the dealer about this, and he's kinda pushing a bigger naim, and i don't know. he's not that impressed with bryston; said they used to carry it, but the latest iteration of their stuff was changed to make it a bit warm, and he didn't like the new stuff. he also mentioned mcintosh, and i told him that i heard the new 1.7s a month or so ago being driven by mac and i didn't like it; i was disappointed and thought they were a step backwards. that's when i learn he has a pair of 1.7s elsewhere, hooked up to macs. and now i got a great idea - have him plug the maggies into the naim stuff, and when i don't like that sound, that means i don't like the new maggie technology and i'll buy 3.6s now instead of waiting for the 3.7. lo and behold, the 1.7s sound great. almost as good as the 3.6s with slightly less bass. now i'm mad again; the mcintosh stuff was what i didn't like a month ago, not the 1.7s.

i liked the sound of the naim stuff, but i'm scared it's not beefy enough for the maggies. mac is out. ayre is out. i heard the bryston 4b sst pushing some $22,000 Revels, and they were involving and enjoyable, but i don't know if bryston can make the top end sing like i want. naim did that on the top end of the 1.7s.

so, any thoughts? i'm leaning towards staying with the brystons; they didn't strike me as being slightly warm. but i'd be interested to hear if anyone has ever tried naim with their maggies. as i said, i know nothing about them. time for a little research

I have not tried a Naim amp in ages so can't comment. Bryston amps sound great, and in fact that's what Magnepan used in their CES demo, IIRC. I am driving mine with an Emotiva XPA-2 and it sounds good to me.

YMMV - Don

while the bottom was good and tight, the upper ranges seemed a bit thin to me. i still loved the maggies, but i have a suspicion that better electronics would have made the top end a bit nicer (care to comment on that, alien?).

All I know is the 3.6 maggies were ok sounding with a 110 watt/channel. But now with 1000 watt mono blocks and a for real kick ass pre-amp, this is a really wild system to listen to, at what ever volume you like.

I wasn't that happy with the speakers for awhile until I got the better and way more powerful amps. The pre-amp, a really expensive one, put this system over the top. It makes me grin every single day of my life.

what pre-amp do you have? i'm leaning very far over to the 'full bryston' side. i've finally decided to quit mixing and matching and try to go with a setup that was made to work with each other, so i'm thinking a bryston 4b sst2 and one of their pre-amps

yeah, i've noticed that. i've seen maggies at this year's CES being driven by it looks like monoblocks. and another setup that looked like the 4b sst. every now and then i hear a slightly negative comment about the brystons, but i keep going back to the fact that they sounded better to me than ayre, they had me involved in the music on the revels, and magnepan uses them to demo their stuff

hey, don! if i buy the bryston stuff and don't like it, will you buy it from me? LOL