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The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgmerrill View Post

Yet more nonsense concerning an argument that was never made - complete with scary quotation marks, no less. And still no concrete evidence forthcoming, I see. Tilt at windmills often?

You know what I found most scary in your posts? You're an educator (thankfully, a retired one). Did you pass this kind of "stick your tongue out" dogma to your students when they expressed interest in concepts you were incapable of grokking?
post #212 of 3513
Thread Starter 
I see two competing trains of thought regarding structural mods to the speakers.

Mapleshade seems to imply that mye stands are wrong b/c by stiffening the frame, they are forcing any resonances back into the driver while there stand allows the resonances to flow into the added structure.

Regarding the effects of the bass panel on the tweeter ribbon as described by bradford above, I don't see how mye stands would change any distortion on the tweeter as both the tweeter assembly and mid/low frequency driver are mounted to the same piece of MDF. If anything, by stiffening the entire frame, I would think that any resonances affecting the tweeter ribbon would be increased by not allowing the Magnepan frame to absorb them and forcing them back onto the MDF which apparently does not do a good enough job of stiffening.
post #213 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

I see two competing trains of thought regarding structural mods to the speakers.

Mapleshade seems to imply that mye stands are wrong b/c by stiffening the frame, they are forcing any resonances back into the driver while there stand allows the resonances to flow into the added structure.

Regarding the effects of the bass panel on the tweeter ribbon as described by bradford above, I don't see how mye stands would change any distortion on the tweeter as both the tweeter assembly and mid/low frequency driver are mounted to the same piece of MDF.

Possibly... but in addition to the issue with baffle vibrations, there is also the deflection of the panel itself. I would think the Myes would address that. Plus I do "think" simply adding mass would have a dampening effect. I have not seen the MapleShades so I don't know what they are doing.

One of the mods I made to mine was to physically decouple (as much as possible) the ribbon from the MDF the bass panel is mounted in. This was a pretty invasive mod and not recommended for the faint of heart but it has served to quiet the ribbons from the vibration (although not completely). One of these days (if I ever get a wood shop set up again) I'd like to take a stab at complete re-framing the drivers using some form of composite laminate (something with a much lower resonant frequency) and removing all physical coupling of the ribbon.

It is too bad the bass and midrange panels use the same diaphragm as it seems better to simply decouple the bass panel like back in the days of the tympanis. Rumor has it that Magnepan is planning to bring a satellite approach back to their lineup. I believe they showed a proto at CES.
post #214 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.bradford View Post

You know what I found most scary in your posts? You're an educator (thankfully, a retired one). Did you pass this kind of "stick your tongue out" dogma to your students when they expressed interest in concepts you were incapable of grokking?

Primarily a researching professor and author, actually. Regardless, it doesn't require an extensive education to see your little Google derived essay for what it is. I'm sure you expended no small amount of effort on it over the past day or so, but it has nothing to with the original argument.

As for your dogma comment, you might be well served to check the definition of irony.

Time for the tool bin for you one final time.
post #215 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgmerrill View Post

Primarily a researching professor and author, actually.

Nevertheless, An individual who has learned all he was willing to, many years ago.

Quote:


it doesn't require an extensive education to see your little Google derived essay for what it is.

Good... you actually looked up those references. I would have included them for you had I not already known:

1.) The referenced post was explicitly not directed at you.

2.) You would have woo-wooed the work of those folks as well because you either refuse to get, or are unable to get it.

Quote:


but it has nothing to with the original argument.

This is denial.

Quote:


As for your dogma comment, you might be well served to check the definition of irony.

Ahh... another clever little quip.

Quote:


Time for the tool bin for you one final time.

The "tool bin"? You're clueless! And we should be so lucky... but unfortunately, I seriously doubt it given your previous statements:

"Now, I really have had enough of this silly audio woo nonsense."

"We're done."

"Plonk."

And lastly... "Time for the tool bin for you one final time." And this, in reply to a post that started out with a declaration that it was not directed at you, rather to those that were still interested in the discussion. I get it that you don't get it. I think we ALL get that you don't get it. But that doesn't mean that everyone here doesn't get it. You're not the only one here. Others here might want (and seem to be willing) to discuss the possible merits of locking down their maggies (or any other mod for that matter) in lieu of the fact that you refuse to/don't get it.

Yet you're still here... surely you have better to do with your time than to, once again, parrot your denial.
post #216 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgmerrill View Post

I'm not familiar with the company, but if the products that cctvtech posted are typical Mapleshade fare, an open mind is not a very likely outcome on my part. That crap is just plain silly.
If this character is such a genius then his ideas and products should stand up to testing and peer review, no?
He would also be hailed as a genius within the field of physics for having uncovered hereto unknown principles. Unfortunately for Mapleshade and its potential Nobel candidacy, this stuff has been thoroughly debunked time and time again.

Because, as with far too many Magnepan threads, it's been sidetracked with audio woo and has presented very little in the way of substance. I would much rather be discussing the real world - room treatments, speaker placement, speaker model comparisons, EQ, etc. - than waste my time on mysticism and superstition.


OKay, here's my experience with Mapleshade...I've purchased the following items:
1) CD Sampler (approx $10) - Amazing recordings. Maybe the best I've ever heard.
2) Golden Helix Speaker Wire ($85) - Does the job just fine.
3) Contact Enhancer spray (approx $25) - Didn't really notice any difference.
4) 1 Pair Speaker Plinths ($400) - Without question, these helped the low end performance of my former DeVore Speakers.
5) About 4 Other CDs ($50 or so) - Again, amazing recordings.

So, basically I'd buy the plinths, the wire, and the CDs again for sure. And I agree with you, room treatments and the other stuff you mentioned are much more vital to overall performance. I have over 20 GIK traps in my room, and it was the single most "bang for the buck" improvement I've ever made to my system! But while Pierre at Mapleshade is certainly guilty of being overly enthusiastic about what some of his products do, I will still listen to any idea he brings to the table, and will try a few items out here and there.

Forget all his products...just pick up a sampler CD and give it a listen. I think you'll find you don't have many recordings in your library that are better (the only one I have that is on par would be my Diana Krall CD, and everyone and their mother has one of those). It's fun to listen to such amazing, rich, vibrant detail just come bursting out of your speakers
post #217 of 3513
BTW, I have one Mye stand up and running and one waiting in the wings. I thought I'd see if I notice anything unbalanced in the soundstage since it's not really feasible to just attach them and detach them at will. I will say that for some reason these stands look much more bulky and utilitarian in the pics I've seen than they do in person. They're quite nice looking in real life, and I think they actually enhance the appearance of the Maggie. Also, the build quality is certainly suberb, and Grant is a great guy to deal with.

I'll have more time this weekend to fire up some 2-channel goodness, so I'll be sure to post my initial impressions on the Mye stands
post #218 of 3513
Enough with the back and forth bickering or you will be removed.

Kyser
post #219 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

OKay, here's my experience with Mapleshade...I've purchased the following items:
3) Contact Enhancer spray (approx $25) - Didn't really notice any difference.

Do you mean the DeoxIT? That's a Caig Labs "Cramolin" Product. I've used the Red D5 for years to clean and restore contacts, potentiometers and connectors. Good stuff, but it isn't made to "enhance" anything, just to clean and preserve electrical connections. They're in Escondido, California, just a few miles away. I toured their facility many years ago. Caig Labs


Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

...Forget all his products...just pick up a sampler CD and give it a listen. I think you'll find you don't have many recordings in your library that are better (the only one I have that is on par would be my Diana Krall CD, and everyone and their mother has one of those). It's fun to listen to such amazing, rich, vibrant detail just come bursting out of your speakers

That argument I can buy. Although I seriously doubt any of his "tweaks" have a profound effect on his recordings, I'm sure that if he takes any reasonable care in the production process, it would put them light years ahead of the over-compressed commercially produced garbage put out by most companies today.
post #220 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by cctvtech View Post

Do you mean the DeoxIT? That's a Caig Labs "Cramolin" Product. I've used the Red D5 for years to clean and restore contacts, potentiometers and connectors. Good stuff, but it isn't made to "enhance" anything, just to clean and preserve electrical connections. They're in Escondido, California, just a few miles away. I toured their facility many years ago. Caig Labs


That argument I can buy. Although I seriously doubt any of his "tweaks" have a profound effect on his recordings, I'm sure that if he takes any reasonable care in the production process, it would put them light years ahead of the over-compressed commercially produced garbage put out by most companies today.

Yep, that's the product! For some reason I thought I remembered the site saying all sorts of stuff about it improves contact, which in turn enhances the sound or something. I didn't notice anything like that, but I did spray it on all my connectors. Sounds like this is a product you like, eh?
post #221 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kysersose View Post

Enough with the back and forth bickering or you will be removed.

Kyser

While you're at it, why don't you tell your boy Bruce to quit being a primadonna A-list wanna-be and make Bubba Nosferatu for cripes sake! This guy gets a few cameos in some Spiderman flicks and a supporting role in some cable tv series, and all of a sudden he's Pacino?? Give me a break. If it's good enough for Paul Giamatti, it's MORE than good enough for Bruce "need to get over myself" Campbell!

/soapbox

post #222 of 3513
Summa,

looks like you're AKA AJ.
I started my query there a few days ago and I'm getting some good input. I remember seeing your post somewhere with specifics of what amps and crossovers etc. you are using, but this thread is a bit out of control so I thought I'd ask you to PM me with the info?
Thanks
Keith
post #223 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

(the only one I have that is on par would be my Diana Krall CD, and everyone and their mother has one of those)

I'll recommend another that is not so well known... Holly Cole - "Shade". Perfect time of year to listen to this one (northern hemisphere residents only).
post #224 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.bradford View Post

I'll recommend another that is not so well known... Holly Cole - "Shade". Perfect time of year to listen to this one (northern hemisphere residents only).

Just bought my first Holly Cole disc a few weeks ago...good stuff, man!
post #225 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Yep, that's the product! For some reason I thought I remembered the site saying all sorts of stuff about it improves contact, which in turn enhances the sound or something. I didn't notice anything like that, but I did spray it on all my connectors. Sounds like this is a product you like, eh?

Yes. When I owned a consumer electronics service business, I used it all of the time.

Their stuff is excellent for cleaning, lubricating and protecting contacts, potentiometers, etc. It won't work on modern digital volume controls, which are contactless, but it does a great job on electro-mechanical connections. I'm out of that business now (no money in it), but I still use it for certain applications. In fact, when we had issues with SCSI connectors on our old RAIDs, I found it did an excellent job cleaning the corrosion off them and I also use it on hard drive connectors.
post #226 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Just bought my first Holly Cole disc a few weeks ago...good stuff, man!

Was it Temptation?
If not, you need to get that one!

I have 4 Holly Coles. My order of preference is -

#1 Temptation
#2 Shade
#3 Blame it on My Youth
#4 Don't Smoke in Bed

3 & 4 choices are very close

Have you tried any Patricia Barber's?

ss9001
post #227 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Was it Temptation?
If not, you need to get that one!

I have 4 Holly Coles. My order of preference is -

#1 Temptation
#2 Shade
#3 Blame it on My Youth
#4 Don't Smoke in Bed

3 & 4 choices are very close

Have you tried any Patricia Barber's?

ss9001

This is the one I bought: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Holly-Col...4419996&sr=8-5

I'm sure it won't be my last, so I'll definitely remember your suggestions Haven't bought any P.Barber yet, but she's in the queue! I love buying new music, uploading it to my computer, and having it available to me via my squeezebox whenever I want to hear it. Any of you guys have squeezeboxes?? I put them up there with the MMGs as one of the best values in this hobby...it's completely revolutionized my love for music!
post #228 of 3513
Hello All,
I should be receiving my MMG-C in the next day or so ( Summa chewed me out for daring to use a Insignia bookshelf as my Center).
The next step I should be correcting is my room acoustics. At low volume I am okay, but as I turn it up I start "hearing the room" which tells me that things could be improved.
I am planning DIY with rigid fiberglass (OC 705). Summa, from your posts it looks like you have done this a lot with commercial panels. Did you also use the panels behind your Maggies? i plan to do the reflection points on the side walls and maybe some bass traps.

Thanks for your advice. I know I will be happier with my MMG-C compared to cheapo stuff. I will tackle the surrounds with some dipoles/bipoles later.

Thanks,
Imu
post #229 of 3513
LOL, hey Imu...congrats on the new center Be sure to let us know how it is, and don't forget that (regardless of your beliefs on break-in) Maggies need some hours before they'll sound their best

As for treatments, I use GIK panels and have been very happy with them. With the Maggies, the only thing I have on the front wall are two pairs of tri-traps in each corner, and then a few panels on the side walls for the first reflection points. I won't ever have an audio room without room treatments again....they're very, very effective!
post #230 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

LOL, hey Imu...congrats on the new center Be sure to let us know how it is, and don't forget that (regardless of your beliefs on break-in) Maggies need some hours before they'll sound their best

As for treatments, I use GIK panels and have been very happy with them. With the Maggies, the only thing I have on the front wall are two pairs of tri-traps in each corner, and then a few panels on the side walls for the first reflection points. I won't ever have an audio room without room treatments again....they're very, very effective!

Thanks Summa. I got my MMG-C paired with my MMGs. I will do a brief review in the next day or so after I audition with different stuff. I got a scare as initially I couldn't get any sound at all. I had the speaker wire ends in too deep. After I pulled them out and reinserted the wires things are good. I will also post some pictures of my theater room to get some advice re: the room treatments.

Imu
post #231 of 3513
Imu: Sounds good! We're looking forward to it!
post #232 of 3513
Has anyone tried suspended a CC1,CC2 or CC3 speaker from the ceiling? Magnepan suggested that option using the 3 threaded nuts on the top - requires opening a small hole in the grille cloth, inserting eyebolts and they suggested using fish line to hang from hooks in the ceiling. I'm a bit skeptical of how time consuming this would be to do to line up all 3 holes, make sure they are parallel to the front wall, getting the speaker level, tilted and how to keep the speaker from flapping in the breeze!! It sounds nice but practical??

Anyone try this or have some other ideas?

ss9001
Steve
post #233 of 3513
I try to avoid hyperbole whenever possible, but the sound I'm getting from my new MMG's (approximately three weeks) has easily exceeded my expectations. They do not sound anything like $600 a pair speakers (though I understand they would cost more if sold through dealers). The MMG's have effectively provided exactly what I was looking for: High quality planar satellites. A little background:

I've been in to AV as a hobby for over 20 years and have owned many systems in that time. I'd have to say that this one ranks among the top three (Conrad Johnson-Thiel, Theta Casablanca-Martin Logan, and what I have now):
  • Maggie MMG (L+R mains)
  • Maggie CC3 (Center)
  • Maggie MMG-W (Side and rear surrounds)
  • Ascend Acoustics Rythmik D15se servo subwoofers (2X)
  • Denon AVP-A1 Prepro
  • Wyred 4 Sound 500x7 Class D multi-channel amp
  • HP s3300t PC running Vista Media Center as a music client
  • Buffalo Terrastation NAS serving .WAV files to the PC client
  • Panasonic DMP-BD35K Blu ray player
  • JVC RS-1 1080p projector
  • Samsung FP-T5884 58" plasma TV
As you can tell from the equipment list, I don't have the luxury of a dedicated room so my system has to serve double-duty for music and HT (50/50 split).

Planars (preferably taller line sources) have been my speaker of choice ever since I was first introduced to Martin Logan Sequel IIs over a decade ago. I owned Maggie 1.6s a few years ago and really liked them but decided to sell because a cross-state move was pending and I didn't know if I'd end up in a space large enough to handle them (which proved to be correct). As others on this thread have stated, I missed the Maggie sound ever since. I recently moved into a rental home with a living room large enough to handle 1.6s (barely). However, since I knew I'd be doing HT as well, I thought it would be interesting to try and get the best of both worlds by using MMG's (elevated 18" off the floor) to get the image height and sound quality of 1.6s combined with the bass extension of stereo subs. That's exactly what I've achieved.

To my ears, the MMGs (even on their own sans subwoofer) sound just like the 1.6s I owned previously (actually better with my current electronics and room) with less bass extension.

To those considering MMGs:
1: They provide sufficient bass extension that you can get away without a sub for "mainstream" music (rock, pop, R&B, etc.). I was not prepared for the midbass power the MMGs delivered. Frankly, I really only missed the bass on large scale orchestral material.
2: Maggies are known for bass quality, and the MMGs deliver it. IMO, You'll be hard pressed to find equivalent peformance in another $600 pr. of speakers.
3: Midrange-World class: When artists sing, I hear every inflection in their voices (good and bad). The palpability of voices on the MMGs is simply spooky (in a good way of course).
4: Treble-Fantastic: Close to, if not world class. The MMG is one of the very few speakers I've owned that can produce high frequency tones accurately at high levels without distorting. This really has to be experienced to be appreciated.
5: The MMG's soundstaging and imaging (especially when elevated off the floor a bit) is amazing; superior to any dynamic (box) speaker I've owned and competitive with any other planar line source I've owned (all of which were far more expensive than the MMGs).
6: Micro-dynamics are excellent and competitive with any speaker I've owned. Macro-dynamics are good, but not the best I've heard. If the MMG has a weak spot this is it but honestly given everything else it does so well, I don't notice this much day to day. One caveat: I've found that the louder the MMG's play, the better they perform in terms of macro-dynamics.
7: Detail: Simply put, the best I've experienced at home. In all fairness, the Denon AVP probably has something to do with this, but I'm hearing a lot of fine detail for the first time on many tracks I've owned for 10 years or more. As I go through different albums in my collection, I instantly know how well they were-or were not-recorded
8: Transparency: Excellent-subjectively (which applies to this entire review of course) about 95% as good as the best I've owned (Martin Logan Prodigys), which says a lot given the MMG's price tag.
9: Power Handling: Fabulous; much better than I expected. Though I didn't expect the MMG's to behave like mini-monitors, I'm frankly amazed at how loud the MMG's will play without distorting. Simply put, they'll play as loud as I can stand.

Adding the Rythmik subs to the mix added icing to an already tasty cake. Thanks to the Audyssey EQ system within the Denon AVP, I was able to integrate the subs such that the MMG's now sound (literally) like a fine, full range speaker system.

If the planets line up correctly, I should be in my own custom designed home before the year is out. If the design (pending) provides adequate room, I may move up to 1.6's or even 3.6s for mains but the beauty of the MMG's is that I won't feel compelled to do so. This is a system I could live with for a long time.

If anyone is setting on the fence about Maggies in general or the MMG's in particular I'd say go for it. The MMGs are simply a steal at $600 a pair.

PS: I've never heard Maggies on HT before so I'm really looking forward to it. Most of the HT pieces are in place-I'm waiting for a projector screen to arrive.

Eric
post #234 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

I try to avoid hyperbole whenever possible, but the sound I'm getting from my new MMG's (approximately three weeks) has easily exceeded my expectations.



And if you want them to be even better... get them vertical and off the floor by about 12" to 18". You can find a photo in one of my earlier posts to this thread of some stands I built for this purpose.

And kudos to Magnepan for still being around, and still being able to build their systems at a price that won't break the bank.
post #235 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.bradford View Post



And if you want them to be even better... get them vertical and off the floor by about 12" to 18". You can find a photo in one of my earlier posts to this thread of some stands I built for this purpose.

And kudos to Magnepan for still being around, and still being able to build their systems at a price that won't break the bank.


Though it's buried in my verbose commentary, I did what you've suggested from the start. My MMGs are vertically elevated on ad-hoc (yet effective) stands 18" from the floor.

My experience with planars and line sources have taught me the value of image height.

Eric
post #236 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

My experience with planars and line sources have taught me the value of image height.

Good for you my friend. Enjoy your new setup.

If and when you're ready to upgrade (and you have the room), keep in mind that a recently rebuilt (yes Magnepan will still rebuid them) pair of MG3A's can sometimes be had for well under a grand. These are only a stone's throw from 3.6R's. Same ribbons, and equal bass/midrange area (and there's a ton of mods for them).

Best damn highs in the world (IMHO).
post #237 of 3513
Eric: Awesome review, man!!! I'm sure I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I bought MMGs in 2004 simply because I had just sold my Paradigm Studio set-up on the heels of my divorce and just wanted something inexpensive to replace them. I never expected that it would be the beginning of a Maggie love affair!

I have a feeling you'll be in the same group as myself - those who love Maggies for HT! You have a great little system there, and I think you'll be very impressed with how far Maggies bring you into the movie. Definitely let us know what you think after you get one fired up!

And I really think you should head over to the Magnepan Users Group and post your MMG comments...they love hearing about all things Maggie!

Enjoy!
post #238 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Anyone try this or have some other ideas?

Have you ever seen or heard of a Pyramount?
post #239 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.bradford View Post

Good for you my friend. Enjoy your new setup.

If and when you're ready to upgrade (and you have the room), keep in mind that a recently rebuilt (yes Magnepan will still rebuid them) pair of MG3A's can sometimes be had for well under a grand. These are only a stone's throw from 3.6R's. Same ribbons, and equal bass/midrange area (and there's a ton of mods for them).

Best damn highs in the world (IMHO).

Interesting: I would have never considered that. Thanks for the tip.

E
post #240 of 3513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Eric: Awesome review, man!!! I'm sure I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I bought MMGs in 2004 simply because I had just sold my Paradigm Studio set-up on the heels of my divorce and just wanted something inexpensive to replace them. I never expected that it would be the beginning of a Maggie love affair!

I have a feeling you'll be in the same group as myself - those who love Maggies for HT! You have a great little system there, and I think you'll be very impressed with how far Maggies bring you into the movie. Definitely let us know what you think after you get one fired up!

And I really think you should head over to the Magnepan Users Group and post your MMG comments...they love hearing about all things Maggie!

Enjoy!

Thanks Summa: I'll certainly chime in once I've had the chance to do HT on the Maggies. You make a good point about the MUG as well. Since I got the idea for my MMG DIY replacement feet (similar to "T" feet provided with 1.6 and up) from the MUG, the least I can do is chime in with an opinion there.

I'll try and get a couple of pics up here too shortly.

Eric
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