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The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 83

post #2461 of 3526
I've heard them a couple of times, and they are quite impressive, but I think they'd be unsuitable in a home theater application for all but the tinniest of rooms. They just wouldn't be able to go low enough or loud enough, but as a desktop system, they are magical!
post #2462 of 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by healthnut View Post

I've heard them a couple of times, and they are quite impressive, but I think they'd be unsuitable in a home theater application for all but the tinniest of rooms. They just wouldn't be able to go low enough or loud enough, but as a desktop system, they are magical!

It would only be used for my room. I will also have a sub, a Sunfire Jr 8 inch sub for the low end.
post #2463 of 3526
Worth a shot if you don't need lots of volume and you are close enough to them. They are very refined and detailed, if they don't work out, they still make great near-field monitors for a desktop. If you decide to try them out in your room, let us know what you think. Lots of people are interested!
post #2464 of 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by healthnut View Post

Worth a shot if you don't need lots of volume and you are close enough to them. They are very refined and detailed, if they don't work out, they still make great near-field monitors for a desktop. If you decide to try them out in your room, let us know what you think. Lots of people are interested!

I sure will if I get them. I talked to the local dealer here in Hawaii and to have them shipped to Oahu than here to Hawaii it would be almost another $400... my face hung when I heard that....lol but if I do decide to get them I will share impressions.
post #2465 of 3526
Took delivery of my 3.7"s on Friday, and have been running lots of low bass through them the last couple of days to help break them in. Interesting development: the right speaker already has good low frequency response, while the left's output approximates a tiny bookshelf speaker! I thought it might be wired out of phase, but swapping the cables had no effect, so I just put them back the way I had them (presumably in phase). Anyone else ever experience this or have any thoughts, comments, suggestions?
post #2466 of 3526
Is the woofer panel working? (Put your ear to it -- watch the volume is not too loud!) Also check the midrange fuse. Are the speakers symmetric in placement and relative to the room (i.e. left isn't is a bass nulll at the listening position)?
post #2467 of 3526
Thanks for the input. Can't do any more live testing for awhile, since I blew out one of my amp channels and had to send it in for repairs. It's not a blown fuse on the speaker (I checked) or a placement issue. I already tried putting my ear up to it, and couldn't hear anything that sounded like bass. I'll call my dealer tomorrow, and maybe Magnepan, to try to figure this out. Never heard of this problem before, but these are not inexpensive speakers, so I will get to the bottom of it. Thanks again
post #2468 of 3526
Hi Don: Talked to the dealer about the problem, and he says he'll make it right whatever it takes. Trying to get him to loan me an amp until mine gets repaired. A new question: I want to set up a home theater rig with the 3.7' s in the front (no separate center channel), and must decide between a used pair of 1.6's or new MG 12's for the rear. I'm probably going to go with the 1.6's, but would value your input on this. Thanks.
post #2469 of 3526
Magnepan's dealers are among the best for customer service so hopefully you'll be up and running soon. Aside: The very few times we had a problem with a speaker back when I worked for a dealer (decades ago), Magnepan swapped the pair.

Regarding the surrounds I cannot really help as I have not heard the 12's or 1.6's. My inclination would be the 1.6's as they should be a much closer match to your 3.7's but that's a guess. I am using MC1's (on custom stands) for surrounds and rears in my (7.0+) system. I have not really missed lows from the surround channels, and worry about cancellations from multiple large planers (I have treated the walls behind mine to attenuate the back wave). However, I seem to recall you have a large room? If so you may have fewer integration issues.

Sorry, not much help - Don
post #2470 of 3526
I purchased a book by a fellow named Jim Smith titled “Get Better Sound”.

One of his recommendations was for Magnepan speakers. His tip was to tilt the speaker FORWARD. You place a mirror on the speaker and angle it until it reflects back at you. In my case this was fairly far forward. And I was quite skeptical.

It was fairly simple to place some ¼ inch thick plywood pieces under the back spikes of my 3.6s and give them a listen. I don’t buy into very much of the audiophile voodoo, but I was impressed. I did not do any blind testing, so take this with a grain of salt.

This is something I would recommend trying. As with all of the audiophile gimmicks, I think you need to try them yourselves. But this one worked for me and is dirt cheap to try. One of the things I liked about the book was that there are many recommendations about the room, geometry of the speaker set up and precision which make sense to me.

I likely need to re-adjust the toe in, but my speakers will now live with a tilt.

Has anyone else tried this technique with their Maggies?

post #2471 of 3526
If you are not comfortable with that angle, find a way to raise your seat. I find that a seat height of around 20" works for me. YMMV
post #2472 of 3526


Sound Anchor Stands with tilt motion are ideal for the perfect degree.
post #2473 of 3526
vynyl,

Do you have yours tilted to make the panels normal to your ear?
post #2474 of 3526






The centers of the panels are tilted to the exact height as the ears when seated - if memory serves the angled tilt forward is 3° - 5° - experimenting with various degrees of tilt back /forward over the years makes for interesting results - the room/ceiling height will dictate the various results one prefers - the level makes for quick accurate work.
post #2475 of 3526
Thanks, I like the turnbuckles used for adjustment. It is still interesting to me how speaker angle can make such a difference.
post #2476 of 3526
One idea behind tilting, like toe-in, is to time-align the wavefront at your ears. It also may help, or at least change, the impact of comb filtering and other reflective effects. I suspect the latter is most of the difference (when you move your head an inch and the sound changes by a mile, it's usually comb filtering effects). I have tried tilting mine but found the effects varied with the room, listening position, etc. so usually just skip it. I find room treatment makes Maggies much less sensitive to positioning in general.

FWIWFM - Don
post #2477 of 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

One idea behind tilting, like toe-in, is to time-align the wavefront at your ears. It also may help, or at least change, the impact of comb filtering and other reflective effects. I suspect the latter is most of the difference (when you move your head an inch and the sound changes by a mile, it's usually comb filtering effects). I have tried tilting mine but found the effects varied with the room, listening position, etc. so usually just skip it. I find room treatment makes Maggies much less sensitive to positioning in general.
FWIWFM - Don

Don, I have a subjectively heavily treated room. Initially I had mine tilted back because I read it on the Maggie forum or something. But giving them a forward tilt was again, a subjectively big improvement and I recommend that folks give it a try. It is simple and cheap to try.
post #2478 of 3526
Hey, it all comes down to what sounds best to you! No worries.

Ideally the panel will be lined up with your ears, as that should provide the best wavefront for direct sound and limit delayed arrival signals from other parts of the panel. In practice there are so many other factors in the room and such that we all end up tweaking for our room (and our ears). Part of the fun of planers... Or any speaker, for that matter. I have had conventional speakers that were just as much a pain to set up (and didn't sound as good in the end!)

Tilting causes varied arrival times from different places on the panels to the ears, causing frequency variations (among other things). So there is an optimal tilt, and toe-in, etc. IME, for a given listening position, spacing from the rear wall is first in terms of impact on the sound, then toe-in, and finally tilt. I include tweeter position (are you an innie or an outie? smile.gif ) as part of the to-in process. back when I was more active, tweaking the tilt was part of the set-up process, and we drilled holes in the bases (some use feet, some a solid panel, back then) so we could adjust tilt for the listening position. I also found tilt much more important for the smaller panels *e.g. MG-I's) than the larger MG-II/III and Tympani/20.x speakers.

Aside: Setting up a pair of Tymp's was always a huge pain, though fun too. One owner had Tympani ID's (I think) plus four extra bass panels; that was a challenge.

It is worth noting again that, above the bass region, Maggies tend to be fairly directional, with little energy coming off the sides and top/bottom. This would make them easier to place than conventional speakers except for that big back wave we all have to deal with. First reflections are less an issue with planers. The directionality also means they get more sound to the listener, assuming proper angles, a fact which offsets their low efficiency a little.

I used to spend hours measuring, listening, and aligning for the best impulse and frequency response. I have gotten less anal about that over time, though a large part of that is using a lot of treatments (too much absorption, in the case of my present room, but I have my reasons).
post #2479 of 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Hey, it all comes down to what sounds best to you! No worries.
Ideally the panel will be lined up with your ears, as that should provide the best wavefront for direct sound and limit delayed arrival signals from other parts of the panel. In practice there are so many other factors in the room and such that we all end up tweaking for our room (and our ears). Part of the fun of planers... Or any speaker, for that matter. I have had conventional speakers that were just as much a pain to set up (and didn't sound as good in the end!)
Tilting causes varied arrival times from different places on the panels to the ears, causing frequency variations (among other things). So there is an optimal tilt, and toe-in, etc. IME, for a given listening position, spacing from the rear wall is first in terms of impact on the sound, then toe-in, and finally tilt. I include tweeter position (are you an innie or an outie? smile.gif ) as part of the to-in process. back when I was more active, tweaking the tilt was part of the set-up process, and we drilled holes in the bases (some use feet, some a solid panel, back then) so we could adjust tilt for the listening position. I also found tilt much more important for the smaller panels *e.g. MG-I's) than the larger MG-II/III and Tympani/20.x speakers.
Aside: Setting up a pair of Tymp's was always a huge pain, though fun too. One owner had Tympani ID's (I think) plus four extra bass panels; that was a challenge.
It is worth noting again that, above the bass region, Maggies tend to be fairly directional, with little energy coming off the sides and top/bottom. This would make them easier to place than conventional speakers except for that big back wave we all have to deal with. First reflections are less an issue with planers. The directionality also means they get more sound to the listener, assuming proper angles, a fact which offsets their low efficiency a little.
I used to spend hours measuring, listening, and aligning for the best impulse and frequency response. I have gotten less anal about that over time, though a large part of that is using a lot of treatments (too much absorption, in the case of my present room, but I have my reasons).

I am an outie.

My experience has been that these speakers are insanely hard to place. Toe-in is very hard to get right. Minimum differences make a difference on the center sound stage. I finality got better at it by listening to female vocals to get it right. But for years my set-up was non-optimum. And the sweet spot is only the center seat and even then it is only an inch or so wide. Moving left or right in the seat makes a difference. Treating the room and taming the bass was a nice improvement, but that I am sure is true for all speakers. Maybe it is the room, but this tilting the speakers forward put a smile on my face and will stave off thoughts of auditioning new speakers for a while.

A content Maggie owner...
post #2480 of 3526
Content is good...

I agree with placement issues, and that is true for any dipole (Maggie, 'stat, or dynamic) I have ever set up. IME, it is easier in a large room (my current room is small'ish), and room treatment makes a huge difference. I have almost no response issues with my current set-up (you can move from one end of the couch to the other withou significant change), but I am fairly close and have a lot of room treatments in place. In an average room, without (enough proper) room treatment, reflections are a bear to control and the sound is very sensitive to listening position.

I have not thought about tilt for a while, so your experience is a great reminder of one more parameter that can be tweaked to improve the listening experience. Since maggies act like line sources, tilt is probably more important than most conventional speakers.
post #2481 of 3526
Toe in can be frustrating especially when attempting without an assistant - I find this little mouse to be a great time saver plus the added visual aspect.



I place the mouse on top of the outer footer of left panel - slowly twist the panel left/right - observe lasers location in the sweet spot - from there you can now visually determine your preferences - repeat for right panel - in my case I find that twisting both panels to where the laser lines are 18” out from the sides of the chair is a good compromise.

Best part is you no longer need assistant - you can now see the actual width that is been covered - both panels can now be identical to the amount of toe in or preferences - vacuuming is no longer dreaded wink.gif
Edited by vinyl - 8/12/12 at 1:19pm
post #2482 of 3526
Don you have done a great job then. I have not listened to any speaker that you could move the width of a sofa. Impressive. If I so much as lean, there seems to be a difference.

wwf1vr.jpg

I may have to get a couple of those.cool.gif
post #2483 of 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertawillisjr View Post

Do you think you will upgrade to the 1.7 or beyond?

The answer to your question is a resounding "Yes"!

I went to Audio Connection in Verona, NJ, calling ahead to see if they had the MG12s. I figured that they're reasonably close in design to the MMGs, so I could compare them to the 1.7's.

The 1.7's were already set up when I got there. Ten minutes of listening told me all I needed to know: Those are spectacular speakers! John Rutan is the owner and he's been in the business a long time, so I did him the courtesy of telling him there was no need to set up the 12s, the sale was already made, but asked if he had the time for me to do some more listening. He said, "all the time you'd like." I should mention that he had a young man assisting him, by the name of Samir, who was very polite and helpful.

The soundstaging and solidity that those speakers project are just amazing. The depth of the image was palpable. I could never get the image height of the MMGs correct, partly from their tilt, partly from floor bounce, partly because my room needs acoustic alterations still to be determined, I dunno...I tried and tried at home, but I just couldn't get them right. Let me tell you, the 1.7's have it. I listened to a variety of small ensembles, and they had them nailed.

The MMGs also had that "vertical blind" effect. Moving left to right, even by inches, their sound kept changing. The big guys were consistant. I got up, walked around, and that image stayed much more solid. I assume it's due to the supertweeter section having wider dispersion as a line source.

The timbre was also more consistent, up and down the scale. It seemed seamless. Transients were beautifully crisp, from cymbals to snares to plucked strings. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I love Maggie bass. That's what sold me originally on the IIB's. Listening to the Sheffield Drum record, 30 years ago at Lyric Hifi in NYC, the cleanness of the bass was heads above the other speakers I was considering. It's not the quantity, it's the quality that counts.

In addition to the music that John Rutan played, these are some of the recordings I brought:

Alicia De Larrocha, the Goyescas by Granados, and Alberia by Albéniz.
Kathleen Battle and Christopher Parkening, Pleasures Of Their Company
The Manhattan Transfer, Birdland and Boy from New York City
Cleo Laine, Live at Carnegie Hall, Music, (by Carole King)
Amanda McBroom (of course), Growing up in Hollywood Town
Angela Bofill, Under the Moon and Over the Sky
Kenny Rankin (live), Haven't We Met
The Philadelphia Orchestra (Ormandy), The Russian Easter Overture
Itzak Perlman, Jorge Bolet & the Juilliard SQ, Sicillienne from the Chausson Concert for Violin, Piano, & String Quartet
Steely Dan, Babylon Sisters

My personal budget may be wrecked for the year, but I will be such a happy camper! I'm not into black monoliths, so I ordered them in off-white with natural oak side rails, which was an upcharge of $150. Visually, they'll blend into the room better and I plan on having them for 30 years. It'll be worth the $5/yr.

BTW, when I called Magnepan for an RA for the MMG's, I was bemoaning the fact that I'd be Maggie-less in the interim between sending back the MMGs and when I receive the 1.7's at the end of the month. They said not to worry about it, keep the little guys until the big guys arrive. What a great company!
Edited by Metaphysician - 8/18/12 at 5:39pm
post #2484 of 3526
Hi everybody! Sorry but I'm new of the field... A friend of mine finds Magneplanar SMG-a fantastic and he's going to buy a pair of them from a private seller. He needs help but he can't speak English. He can’t find any images of this model in the Internet which are the same as the loudspeakers he's supposed to buy. As he wonders if they could have been changed at least externally in an unsuitable way, he's looking for some hotos of the original Magneplanar SMG-a model and would be pleased to know your opinion and advise on the matter. I publish here some photos and thank you very much indeed for your precious help!!!
post #2485 of 3526
I don't recall a shiny metal frame like that but have not paid a lot of attention to the little guys...

Check this out: http://www.google.com/search?q=magnepan+smga&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=lLQ_UO-sDsTrygH7uIGgBg&ved=0CCAQsAQ&biw=1334&bih=719
post #2486 of 3526
The chrome surround is definitely not factory original.


Original SMG


SMGa
post #2487 of 3526
Thanks very much DonH50 and cctvtech.
post #2488 of 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinyl View Post

- if memory serves the angled tilt forward is 3° - 5° - experimenting with various degrees of tilt back /forward over the years makes for interesting results - the room/ceiling height will dictate the various results one prefers - the level makes for quick accurate work.[/SIZE][/I][/B]

How low are you sitting or are you really short? The center at ear height?
post #2489 of 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphysician View Post

The answer to your question is a resounding "Yes"!
Let me tell you, the 1.7's have it. I listened to a variety of small ensembles, and they had them nailed.
What a great company!

"sounds" like you drank the kool aid!

It took me about ten seconds of listening to 1,7s to decide to buy them.

Of course I had to walk around and listen to different things so as to not appear too eager....
post #2490 of 3526
Has anyone had any experience with the 20 series? Specifically, the 20.1 and the 20.7? How do they differ in sound quality from the 3.7? I know they have a better bass but is there a difference in the clarity and transparency? Thanks.
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