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The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 84

post #2491 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

"sounds" like you drank the kool aid!
It took me about ten seconds of listening to 1,7s to decide to buy them.
Of course I had to walk around and listen to different things so as to not appear too eager....

They arrived at the dealer's and he's delivering them on Wed. afternoon.
I can hardly wait!
post #2492 of 3520
They're here! They have arrived! These glorious instruments of communication! Where are the brass horns to announce the arrival of my new MG 1.7s?


An hour before, I requested Ms. Amanda McBroom to perform "Growing up in Hollywood Town", just so I could tune my ear to how the MMGs presented her. Well, not with the proper respect she deserved. They tried, and sounded quite nice, but with too many evident flaws. Chair location, height projection, Amanda sounded different everywhere I turned. It was too sad. They'll head back home to White Bear Lake tomorrow.

Then John Rutan and Nick from Audio Connections showed up with the prize, my mistress to be, my pearl beyond measure (though not beyond price). True professionals, they didn't laugh at my electronics, perhaps figuring that they would be aiding my dilemma in the near future.

They wheeled the MG 1.7s in with infinite care, slowly disassembled the transportation casings, then demanded we all wash our hands before removing the plastic, so as not to soil the lovely off-white fabric. They installed the feet, while I applied some last minute heatshrink tubing over the speaker pins. We set them into approx. the correct positions and lit the match.

Amanda came into focus. She sang like a west coast angel. The musicians made their presence known, with percussion so crisp you could bite into it. Keyboard rich and rounded. A woodwind texture so tangible you could pick at it with a fingernail. Electric guitar like dark caramel. There was a cohesiveness to the sound that was RIGHT. I got up and walked around the room. The musical presentation remained solid and palpable, as though the house had new occupants.

Back to earth......The new Maggies need their positions shifted, tweaked, reversed, and yet again. They need to visit other positions in the room, to see where they'll be most cozy. When we get rid of the sofa next week, to replaced by...nothing, the reflectivity and tonal balance will shift for the worse. Difusors may become indispensible. Meanwhile, the glorious break-in process will be underway, like burnishing and reburnishing gold until it gleams with nearly unbearable brilliance.


I am happy. The music now sounds RIGHT. Ineffably RIGHT. I can now sleep.


More will be written.
post #2493 of 3520
Congratulations!!!
post #2494 of 3520
Hello everybody,

I am French, I am holder of JBL Array 1400, Magnepan 3.7 and Ellis 1801b. So I have in my possession three very different types of speaker and I just wanted to make my contribution to the felt on the association of various components of my different audio systems.

My main preamp is the SPL 2Control which I connect to my two Threshold SA/6e Mono amps by XLR link and to my two main speakers (not at the same time!), the Magnepan and JBL. So I am able to tell you exactly, in my living room, the differences between these two types of speakers.

But first, I wanted to present what seems to be the pivot of my system, I mean the two SA/6e Threshold mono amps (125W class A each) for which I did perform an update like my previous Threshold SA/30s (2x70W class A that I sold for mono blocks). The renovation focused on:

- Replacement of original Bridge Rectifier by FRED
- Replacement of 4 large 31.000uFD capacities in each mono amp (totaling 124.000uFD) by BHC 47.000uFD (totaling 188.000uFD)
- Replacement of original insulator by individual transistor mica insulators and improving the thermal conduction between the cooling radiators with thermal paste
- Replacement balanced / unbalanced input selector without replacing original connectors editing (XLR, RCA and HP input connectors are original)
- Replacement of the main board condos and small resistors, internal cables and fuses
- Replacement of potentiometers for adjusting the quiescent current, setting Bias as recommended by Nelson Pass.

In PM sent to one of my friends, I wrote:
"Renovate these amps is like to have changed the source and / or speakers. You can clearly feel the differencies between the two kinds of speakers (JBL 1400, Magnepan 3.7), but they seem to work at their best, without noticeable defect, although Listening is really different from each other. To resume, I can say that upgraded SA/6e get on very well with either one or the other of the two pairs. These updated amps appear versatile and universal ... "

I hope you understood my poor english vocabulary, and that my comment about these Threshold amps will help you to include them as one of your best forever choice as I did. I have compared them to Pass X250.5, ASR Emitter II and to Sonics Frontiers power 3 and the winners to my ears by very far, are...
I am trying Padis fuses on Magnepan 3.7, I should tell you my impressions in a few weeks if interested.
Have a nice day.
post #2495 of 3520
^ Glad you like them! I had Threshold Stasis amps in my system briefly years ago and they were nice. I suspect the biggest sonic differences were made by increasing the filter caps and rebiasing. Make sure you keep those babies from getting too hot.
post #2496 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I suspect the biggest sonic differences were made by increasing the filter caps and rebiasing. Make sure you keep those babies from getting too hot.
Yes indeed. Not only by increesing filter caps but the capacities' technology and quality improved very much in twenty years time. Rebiasing of course is thereof lay but Fred bridge rectifiers are very important as well since Nelson Pass uses them in all his new staffs. The amps are biased according to Nelson Pass method, i.e. by controling temperature: between 49°C and 52°C...
The "new sound" has nothing to do with the original one, I mean very very good, "full right", smooth and punchy at the same time, not agressive at all. The Magnepan like it with plenty of good bass, not as punchy as the JBL but fair nevertheless and well-balanced. My living room tends to be incommodious, as if the loudspeakers needed more space to exprim themselves rather fairly.
Good night and thank you for your kindness.
post #2497 of 3520
Hmmm... If the capacitors are adequately bypassed I am not sure what benefit switching to FRED's (Fast Recovery Epitaxial Diodes) will have. What matters is that you like the new sound!

And yes, any bipolar speaker needs some room to sound good (or a lot of room treatment).
post #2498 of 3520
You are right, I am not sure it might bring something new, but all tweakers and Nelson Pass himself use FRED in all their amps, now. It seems to be much better like this but that's not the only tweak.
Some people think that some special cables and connections might sound better. I agree with them concerning some power cable, it's quite obvious and less with modulation cables, whatever the cost is low or not.
Anyway, as you said, I am happy like this... Just wanted to tell you that the couples upgraded Threshold SA/6e-Magnepan or upgraded Threshold SA/6e-JBL work perfectly together.
post #2499 of 3520
Hey, now that the 3.7's have been on the market for a while, some of you have had a chance to live with them and availability isn't an issue. I'm thinking about moving from the 3.6's to the 3.7's. This would be my third 3 series. I started with the 3.5 moved on to the 3.6 and now..3.7?

So, I'm just wondering, for those of you who have had 3.7's for at least a few months, is there much of a difference. I assume.....
  • Ribbon tweeter = No change / same design, maybe crossover tweaks
  • Quasi ribbon mid panel = Tweaking of crossover and minor reconfiguration of the driver for better integration but nothing major
  • Quasi ribbon bass panel = The big change, better bass extension? Sensitivity? Integration with mid panel? Slam (doubtful)?
  • Crossover = Better components? New slopes?

The frame and legs look about the same. I assume not much has changed. I don't expect anyone who has shelled out for the 3.7's to say much negative (human nature) but, are they a "wow" difference or just a noticeably different spectral balance compared to the 3.6? Are the outboard crossover boxes eliminated? For those who opted for the cherry finish (tired of my all black) is it really as fire engine red as it looks in the Magnepan website photos?
post #2500 of 3520
Comparing Magnepans to Bose? I have to say "what was he thinking?

http://www.tonepublications.com/review/we-review-the-bose-901/
post #2501 of 3520
smile.gif Whatever. I have heard Bose 901's, many times, in many versions from the original to the IV or V (forget), although it has been a number of years. I always found them "impressive" at first listen, but then realize the image is way out of whack (the old 8' violin problem), highs and lows don't quite cut it, and there really isn't deep bass. OK, so my Maggies don't have deep bass either, but I can get a nice stable and realistic image, and they sound and measure much cleaner to me. I did briefly use a pair of Bose C800's as midrange drivers in a PA system (they are essentially the road version of the 901, without the forward speaker, and are used with the 8 "rear" drivers facing forward at the audience, or at least that's how I used them).

Think I'll stick with my old Maggies for now...
post #2502 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnefied View Post

Hey, now that the 3.7's have been on the market for a while, some of you have had a chance to live with them and availability isn't an issue. I'm thinking about moving from the 3.6's to the 3.7's. This would be my third 3 series. I started with the 3.5 moved on to the 3.6 and now..3.7?

So, I'm just wondering, for those of you who have had 3.7's for at least a few months, is there much of a difference. I assume.....
  • Ribbon tweeter = No change / same design, maybe crossover tweaks
  • Quasi ribbon mid panel = Tweaking of crossover and minor reconfiguration of the driver for better integration but nothing major
  • Quasi ribbon bass panel = The big change, better bass extension? Sensitivity? Integration with mid panel? Slam (doubtful)?
  • Crossover = Better components? New slopes?

The frame and legs look about the same. I assume not much has changed. I don't expect anyone who has shelled out for the 3.7's to say much negative (human nature) but, are they a "wow" difference or just a noticeably different spectral balance compared to the 3.6? Are the outboard crossover boxes eliminated? For those who opted for the cherry finish (tired of my all black) is it really as fire engine red as it looks in the Magnepan website photos?

I am surprised nobody has responded to this... I have not heard either, but on paper and per the reviews the step from the 3.6 to the 3.7 is much bigger than the step from the 3.5 to the 3.6, primarily due to the switch to the new QR bass/mid panels. The biggest improvement cited has been more seamless integration from bass to tweeter. There is esentially no change in specs for sensitivity, bass extension, etc.
post #2503 of 3520
Thread Starter 
My 3.7's are not in a good room so my opinion on the 3.6 vs 3.7 can't really be given due to the poor environment my 3.7's are in. I'll be moving soon so will hopefully have a better room for the 3.7's. Until then, I can't really comment although I will say that I never noticed a non-seamless integration on the 3.6's - I thought they sounded great.
post #2504 of 3520
The soft crossover slopes have led to me never finding the integration as bad as reviewers seem to imply. The main issue for me, then and now, is that if you are close to the speakers (as I am now) you can tell as the sound moves from low to high and the apparent source shifts from the bass panel to the ribbon tweeter. I imagine it would be much more difficult to manufacture, but I have wondered at times why they don't split the bass and mid panels so they are laid out B-M-T-M-B or even B-T-M to reduce that effect. Of course I never thought to ask the few times I actually spoke with Wendell or one of the techs. And, I do not notice it when listening to music or watching a movie; I tend to get lost in the sound and ignore the gear. And that's what it's all about, eh?!
post #2505 of 3520
I was wondering if anyone has asked Magnepan to double box the MG1.7's

I have owned the MG12 and when I mentioned to the dealer that I prefer them double boxed, Magnepan did send them double boxed. Not some junk wrapped around the original box like you will get when you order speakers online. It looked like Magnepen made the double box to fit the MG12 box and it also had the Magnepan log etc on the outer box. I am not sure of they used their own trick to ship the items from MN to MIchigan, it was basically unscathed, which would not be the case of it were handled by UPS or FedEx person.

So now I want to get the MG1.7 double boxed. They are larger speakers so I need the extra protection. But I have not asked the dealer as I dont want to impose something that they are not comfortable doing. If they can send the 2 MG1.7's in separate boxes, then I may not insist on double boxing. In all probability it may be easier for them to make a double box for a pair together than to make 2 smaller boxes that would exactly the fit a single MG1.7.
post #2506 of 3520
Thread Starter 
Magnepan boxes are pretty substantial (at least with the 1.6's, 3.6's and 3.7's i've had) and there are multiple layers of cardboard between the speakers and the outside world. I wouldn't worry about it. After all, it is their liability and if the speaker arrives damaged, they'll send you some new ones.
post #2507 of 3520
I am new to Magnepan....What does MMG stands for? Thank You.
post #2508 of 3520
I think MMG is a model number for their small speaker.
post #2509 of 3520
www.magnepan.com and click on MMG
post #2510 of 3520
So last Friday I picked up a pair of 1.6 with the ninja skiing crossover for $850. They sound absolutely stunning. A HK 3490 is doing a wonderful job of powering them with a NAD C 515BEE. I cant get over the image these throw, I have already spent $300 on new cd's since bringing these home.eek.gif On Monday a Rythmik F15HP should be here, in the meantime I have a SVS PBNSD12 for the low end. Here is a crappy Iphone pic.

I plan on getting a rug for the floor but besides that I think I am set as far as treatments. They are placed 2-4' from the back wall (bay window) and the left speaker is a good 8' from the side wall while the right speaker is only about 1.5' from the wall. I have some diffusion along the right wall and a whole bunch within the bay window. Any tips on my setup are welcome!
post #2511 of 3520
The TV appears to be too small for the speakers. biggrin.gif
post #2512 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

Comparing Magnepans to Bose? I have to say "what was he thinking?
http://www.tonepublications.com/review/we-review-the-bose-901/

Some Reminiscing -

The 901's were my first pair of quality speakers in July 1972.

Sprung for the stands and the extra walnut faces that used newly invented velcro for attachment

I had a sealed Procol Harem album waiting - first song i spun was Conquistador - seemed like heaven

My Sansui couldn't really push them so within a year i got a Phase Linear - really sweetened them up

Music got expensive fast


.
Edited by tanner144 - 10/19/12 at 8:07am
post #2513 of 3520
Thread Starter 
Don - For some reason I can't send a PM so I'll just post here. Apologies to everyone for the massive off topic...

I've just accepted a job in Colorado Springs and will potentially be there just before or after Thanksgiving. I was there a few weeks ago for the interview and drove around with a realtor but didn't get up to Monument (which I just realized this past weekend was so close to Colorado Springs). Anyway, I was looking at houses online and saw a few that were in Monument. I'm going to be working in North Colorado Springs somewhere and was wondering what traffic was like in the area. If I bought the house in Monument, I think I would be around 18 miles from the office but most of that is on 25 so it didn't look too bad. Also, we don't have kids yet but would be looking to start a family at some point soon so I wondered if you knew if the schools in Monument were any good or whether I'd be looking at private schooling.

I'm bringing my 3.7's down and one of the criteria for the new house is a room for the mags so when we get moved in, I'll invite you over to hear the 3.7's if you want.

Cheers,
Noah
post #2514 of 3520
Traffic can be a pain; depends on what you are used to and when you leave. Usually takes me 20 - 25 minutes to work (north end of town) very early (I leave the house before 6 AM) and typically 30 - 40 minutes in the afternoon (~4 pm). Snowstorms, all bets are off, depending upon how bad.

Some great houses, everything from small single-family to townhomes to big places on lots of land.

Schools are great, among the best in the state, lots of AP classes, tops in music and arts as well. District D38.

Other bets closer in are Mountain Shadows and Rockrimmon area, make sure you are in D20 -- again great schools and lots of nice houses.

Love to hear your 3.7's!
post #2515 of 3520
Does anyone have an opinion on using MMC2's for center channel duties?

I have a 12x5 screen, and am using 1.7's for Left and Right fronts. I was considering ordering the MMC2's to attach to the sides of the screen for a center channel.

Thanks,

David
post #2516 of 3520
Should work fine. Check out the tri-center arrangement on the Magnepan website. There are a few posts in this thread about it.
post #2517 of 3520
Anyone know much about the "new" MMG's? I have read new .7 like crossover but I have not seen much on real sound improvements. I will be getting a pair and need to decide used unless the new ones are a decent upgrade.
post #2518 of 3520
Hello everyone,

I want to buy new Magnepan speaker so I hope someone can assist me.

I have MG-20 purchased in 1999 and now I want to buy center and surround speaker to have complete 5.1 surround channels, my target listening are movies (DVD & Blu ray) and music, so LFE channel may needed. I need same brand because for synergy as I'm going to use MG-20 as fronts, unless someone recommend other brand may match the MG-20.

May I ask can I go with CC5 center I mean should match MG-20?
And is it big different between MMC2 and MC1 if used as surrounds? I was thinking MC1 should do the job because surround channels usually have little information's either in movies or music, but I’ll be happy to hear opposite opinion.

And for LFE channel, do I need to buy woofer or bass panel? And what ever the choice can this speaker accept two channel signal from the amp, one for LFE and one for center? In this case no need to buy two speakers, just one speaker able to produce center and LFE channel.

And what other better recommendation for setting surrounds.

Anyone care to answer.
Many thanks to all.
post #2519 of 3520
^^
as a point of reference, I have 3.6's, CC3, MC1's for surrounds.

Wendell Diller @ Magnepan and most Maggie dealers will probably highly recommend the CCR over the CC5 but it is a huge jump in price. I have found the CC3 to integrate fairly well with the 3.6's & I have no doubt the CCR is a better choice but is it 3.5 times better? If you can find both at your dealer, audition & decide for yourself smile.gif I have listened to the CCR minus its bass panel speaker stand and it is a very nice speaker.

The CC5 & CCR are both severely bass limited speakers vs. the CC3 (discontinued) so you'll definitely want a good sub and hopefully your prepro/AVR has flexible independent crossovers per channel. Mine doesn't. Magnepan has a work around that has you turn off the sub in the processor, set the fronts as Large, sending all bass from center & surrounds & LFE to your L/R's, then connect the sub to the fronts in a way that the sub takes the bass and uses its own crossovers to cut the highs from being reproduced by the sub. They have decent explanations in the center instruction manuals & you can always call Wendell & he'd explain it if you are confused, which I was redface.gif I don't use this method.

If you elect to use the std THX crossover of 80 hz for the LFE & bass redirection, then the CC5 & CCR will have a freq hole between ~ 80 and 200 Hz. What u can do is get the DWM bass panel or speaker stand if using the CCR and use it to fill in the missing bass between 80 and 200. I got a DWM for my CC3 and placement and integration so center sound is seamless took a little work but it does do the job. Tthe DWM's own internal crossover is at 200 Hz but surprisingly its roll-off freq response extends well up into the upper bass / lower midrange where vocals can actually be heard from it. That's why you can't just put it anywhere - for a seamless center, you need to locate it below, in front of, or close to the CC5/CCR to have sound be "seamless". Magnepan's preference is to just use their connection bass mgmt scheme as the workaround but if you don't like that approach the DWM is a good alternative. In my case, with 1 crossover, I set it at 80, let the DWM handle 80 - 200 and CC3 handles rest, even tho theoretically it can reach 80 (but my results says 80 is not realistic)

Bottom line - if you use Magnepan's hookup scheme for bass mgmt, then a good sub will be all you need. But if you use the traditional & common approach of connecting the sub to sub output on your prepro/AVR, and you don't have the ability to use different crossovers for ea channel, then you should consider adding the DWM bass panel to help the center. Denon/Onkyo/Integra/ I think Marantz have independent crossovers. Pioneer & I think Yamaha only have 1 global crossover. Prepro's Anthem, Lexicon (is Lexicon a player anymore? wink.gif) Bryston, Classe, the Denon AVP, & other hi-end processors have independent crossovers. Anthem, Lexicon, Classe are among those that have the most flexible bass mgmt setups.

IMHO, and I don't know the MG20's per se, but if you have a ribbon tweeter, the CC5 should work well. But the CCR is the ideal match if you have the ballpark $3500-4000 for it. It was designed specifically with the 20.1/20.7/3.6/3.7 in mind. However, and there are others who will agree, I've found that other than the bass issue, the CC3 does integrate pretty well, it is thinner sounding no doubt about it, but adding the DWM helped with that. I have listened to the CCR (not the CC5) and just can't quite justify spending that much money for it vs CC3 or CC5 but that's me. If I had 20.1's, different story but the cherry finish CCR would cost more than I paid for my new 3.6's. Maybe your situation is different.

Be aware that Magnepan's bass panels - the DWM & its table variant & the CCR speaker stand are NOT subwoofers, they only extend to 40 Hz, not much different than your 20's wink.gif So they really should not be used for LFE channel for optimum results. You should plan on getting a true subwoofer for LFE duty for ~ 20 Hz & below. I use a Velodyne DD18 & find it integrates well plus has onboard parametric EQ'r but there are REL devotees, and fans of other brands to mate with Maggies - that's another discussion smile.gif

MC1 vs MMC2 - if you are not planning to add a DWM & don't care about the motorized feature, go with the MC1. It is supposed to be able to reach ~80 Hz, while the MC2 is even more bass limited at ~100 Hz. Plus, you're not paying for the expensive motorization - $800-900 vs $2K wink.gif

My own experience with the MC1's is that they integrate very well with the 3.6's as surrounds, better than the CC3 sounds with them. Playing multichannel music, depending on the recording, I can sit in the sweet spot and have certain sounds triangulate so they sound literally like they are at my head, as if I was wearing headphones. So, their quasi-ribbon is pretty darn near seamless with the 3.6's ribbons. If they didn't have similar sound characteristics, they couldn't pull off that effect. I originally bought them to go with 1.6's but upgraded to the 3.6's and never felt the need to swap them. But they will need a sub in your mix for < 80 Hz.

Hope this helps smile.gif

you're on the right track. And I wouldn't go different speaker brands, especially for center, if you can avoid that. I tried that once upon a time, using DefTechs with my original old MG-1's and never sounded right. You might get lucky getting some buying blind but unless you can audition them in your home or dealer along with Maggies or have a no fee return policy in case they don't work well, I personally wouldn't go that way. That said, recently I did add Martin Logan Motion bookshelves as Height speakers as an experiment but I bought them having listened to them in a Magnolia store with 30 days to return. And they do work pretty well but I would never use them as replacements for the main center or surrounds. They're only purpose is the subtle height effect which is not that noticeable most of the time, just adds a touch of added ambience so do not call attn to themselves. And I positioned them very carefully. Forum member purdyd uses little Mirage OM5 sats for the same purpose w his maggies.

Stay with maggies for your center & side surrounds.
Edited by ss9001 - 11/16/12 at 6:33am
post #2520 of 3520
I pretty much agree with ss9001. which is to say I do not not disagree, just haven't taken time to read his whole post in detail yet!

I would also use MC1's for surrounds; that is what I am doing as well.

I would get a subwoofer for the LFE channel, or go without and see how your 20's do since they reach pretty deep. I would prefer to offload the deepest (and loudest) bass to a good sub. I use a pair of Rythmik's and they match my MG-IIIa's quite well. There is a Rythmik thread in the Subwoofer forum. Ther are plenty of good subs, I just happened to latch onto Rythmik because they are a servo design (mate well with Maggies) and I like the owner/designer of the company.

The center call is tough. My CC3 is OK for me, but I was dissappointed when Magnepan upped the low end from 80 Hz (CC3) to 200 Hz (CC5, and it has always been 200 Hz for the CCR). The CCR adds a ribbon tweeter that would match you 20's better, but quite honestly I am not sure you would notice on movies, and it is a big price increase. I do agree that adding their woofer panel would be required for me using the CC5 or CCR. The woofer panel cannot handle LFE (low frequency effects) as ss9001 noted because it is not a subwoofer. Depending upon your room and listening position(s), you may be OK using the 20's without a center, and I would try that first (with the MC1's as surrounds).

So, I would get a pair of MC1's and a good sub (or two) and see how it sounds before investing in a center.

HTH, FWIWFM, IMO, usual disclaimers, blah, bah, blah - Don
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