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The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 85

post #2521 of 3520
Thank you ss9001 very much for taking time written all the information's, very helpful, and you too DonH50.
Sorry I forget to mention which preamp/processor I'm using, its Krell audio video standard, there are two selections for each channel: full range and bass limited, unfortunately there is no crossover number how much bass is limited.

I will be happy to have CCR but Unfortunately I cannot afford it so I have to stick with CC5. From what I understand there is no way for one bass panel to take two channels inputs, I have to buy another sub speaker for LFE channel.

However, the MG-20 produce very deep and pleasing LFE that I'm sure no need for sub, so im wondering if DMW have same panel then I think should be enough for LFE, but does have same crossover of MG-20?

Also, Is it possible to connect MC1 to bass panel either CC speaker stand or DMW?
post #2522 of 3520
If you are happy with LFE from your 20's then stick with that. DO NOT try to make a DWM woofer panel handle LFE -- it cuts off too high for that. Magnepan is very careful to call it a woofer, not a subwoofer, and they mean it. The DWM panel is not the same size as the panel in your 20's (I think it is only about 1/4 - 1/3 the panel area of one MG-20). The DWM is spec'd to about 40 Hz compared to the 25 Hz spec of your MG-20's (IIRC).

If you tell the processor you have no sub (because you do not) it will send the LFE to the main L/R speakers so you will be fine. You do not need to buy another sub.

If you get a CC5 it will be set to small and will not receive LFE and that is the way it should be. If you add a DWM to the CC5 the processor may think it is large; change it to small and set the crossover in the 60 - 80 Hz range. Do not drive the DWM full-range.

You could use the crossover in the DWM and send the HF to an MC1, but I would not. Getting all those panels to align would be a nightmare. The MC1 is spec'd to 80 Hz and that is low enough for the surrounds. The really deep stuff is in the LFE channel that goes to your main L/R speakers (if no sub) or sub (if you get a sub; remember the DWM is NOT a sub!)

My advice, take it or leave it, and feel free to try different things! - Don
Edited by DonH50 - 11/17/12 at 7:06am
post #2523 of 3520
+1
I agree with Don's advice and comments.

Knight, you asked about the DWM not able to take more than 1 input - that's incorrect. It has 2 inputs & 2 outputs. The DWM is actually constructed in a somewhat similar fashion as the 20 series, with 2 planar panels sandwiched together. Therefore, it can act as 1 unit or as 2. Each sandwich has its own internal crossover, as you can tell if you physically see one at your dealer, because the crossover components create a little bulge in the panel near the bottom at the back side not facing the listener. With 2 inputs you can use it with 1 center, 2 MC-1's, 2 of the mini maggie desktop speakers, or other creative configurations. Bass is summed & rest of the passed thru frequencies are kept separate, otherwise it couldn't be used for the stereo mini-maggie desktop.

Since many dealers may not stock the DWM or possibly not have the application knowledge for different setups, if you have any questions on this speaker, I highly recommend calling Magnepan, ask for Wendall Diller. He is the marketing manager and main guru on the home theater setups & specialized speakers. From my experience, he is very willing to talk to end customers. He may have to call you back but both times I called, he called back within 30 min or so. Nice man & what he wants is for customers to get the best out of their system. In that regard, sometimes he may suggest something different or disagree with what you have in mind. For example, in my case, he is not a fan of trying to add height speakers. And he makes no bones about preferring their bass management wiring & setup scheme over using a DWM panel. He is a big fan of their tri-center center setup so he'll probably ask if you know about it and have the space for it, but he won't try to push it or any other product just so you go out & order it from your dealer wink.gif He seems to approach giving advice as just that, trying to find out what would be the best option for your needs smile.gif

Download & thoroughly read the DWM manual, the CC5 & even mini-Maggie manuals (they go into using DWM since its part of the mini-Maggie package). Also google "CCR review", "CC5 review", and "DWM review" and read thru reviews at places like AVGuide. Some of them go into quite a lot of setup info, with some of the nuances more so than Magnepan puts in their manuals. AVGuide's reviews have some nice info.

Here's the rear panel of the DWM, taken from a review I found wink.gif



one more thing, they give you resistors for bass attenuation, if there's too much bass output. I found that to be the case with my center so I used it. Lesson is - don't automatically assume you won't have any use for attenuation wink.gif Like I said, it took a little experimentation to integrate it with the center so they didn't sound like 2 separate sources. If your Krell has an EQ system, that will also help.
Edited by ss9001 - 11/17/12 at 3:57am
post #2524 of 3520
Oops, forgot to address the crossover/two-input question, thanks Steve! Also agree with both downloading the manuals from their website and with calling Magnepan (they do not "do" email but are great on the phone).

Another option for the center is to use the CC Speaker Stand, essentially a DWM that includes a top mounting plate for your CC5. It is a little smaller than a DWM (only goes to 50 Hz spec) and costs more but simplifies installation. That is probably what I would do for the center if it is stand-alone as it provides a very clean package.

Finally, despite the 20's going to 25 Hz or so, at high volume and low frequency their distortion climbs, just as for any other speaker. A good sub crossed over at 40 - 50 Hz might actually give you a little cleaner sound.

All that said, I would still suggest starting with a pair of MC1's and CC5 to see how you like it.

All IMO - Don
post #2525 of 3520
Thank you all very, very much for simplifying everything I need to know, I have to no other inquires as your post makes me understand fully. Sure I will call Wendell Diller when I have a chance. I think I will go for CC5 and MC1 for now and leave the DMW or center stand later on because they are not big deal at the moment.

Again thank you very much for your kind help. smile.gif
post #2526 of 3520
Forgive me folks if i asked again, i was thinking what other speaker brand have center and surround can match magenpan MG-20?
And what you think if i use center and surround speakers from Martin logan or ProAc?
post #2527 of 3520
If you do not want to use the CC5 or CCR that has been discussed already, perhaps you should post in other threads where people may have more knowledge of other speakers. As this is the Magnepan thread, most if not all of us are using Magnepan centers. You can use whatever you want, but chances are unless somebody has the exact same setup they will not be able to say if you will like it or not (not even then, actually, since it is a personal preference).

I was using a nice Infinity center with better specs and performance than my CC3, but IMO it did not blend as well. I also had a Mirage center, briefly, and it did not blend nor have as good a sound IMO. I do not know anything about ProAc; the ML center may be a decent match but I prefer to keep the front line as similar as possible since a seamless transition from L to C to R is desirable.

You can probably use whatever you want for surrounds; IME it is not critical they match the mains. I do like my MC-1s as surrounds and backs, and their size provides a much more immersive movie experience than the smaller Mirage or other bookshelf speakers I have used. I would not go back to other brands at this point.

YMMV - Don
post #2528 of 3520
Sorry for the mistake, I understand, i will try another discussion forum. By the way the reason i ask because i was thinking its better i use full range speaker rather than limited bass and add bass panel, which need many setup and cost. However, if there is no good match then i use Magnepan for all channels.
post #2529 of 3520
You are welcome to try other speakers and see how it sounds. Let us know if you find a good match. The center carries mostly dialogue and many centers have little if any low end. I do not necessarily agree with that approach, but that is the way it is usually done. Note the bass panel goes to about 40-50 Hz and should probably be crossed over around 80 Hz or for optimum sound. The DWM is not a subwoofer. Another consideration is that if the center plays deep enough to interact with the room modes and bass from other speakers and sub(s) it may be harder to set up the system for flat response.
post #2530 of 3520
I'm thinking of upgrading/changing my box speakers to a set of Maggies, specifically either the MMG or MG-12 for the front L/R, and MMG-C / MMG-W for the center and surrounds. I've been running an Anthem MRX-500 AVR, I do not have a separate amp at this time. I think the receiver's amp is fairly good, but obviously does not compare to having a separate amp. Anyone have some experience using an MRX receiver with Maggies without a separate amp? I could add a separate amp down the road, but don't want to have to add the amp at the same time I get the Maggies. The loudest I ever listen to is approximately -10db to reference, but more typically I listen at volumes between -20db to -15db to reference. Appreciate any thoughts/opinions from Maggie owners, not just for using the AVR for the time being, but also with regards to speaker selection. Music is top priority, but we also enjoy HT. Thanks!
post #2531 of 3520
I don't want to step on anyone's toes but has anyone looked into this http://www.indiespinzone.com/magnestand.html. the xover sound like a great upgrade to me. Does anyone know where this guy is?

Steve
post #2532 of 3520
Not sure, someplace in Pennsylvania. John's been doing this a long time time, maybe 8 - 10 years, but I have never heard a pair. They seem to be highly regarded, and he is certainly passionate about the mods! They have been discussed here, and there are tons of reviews and discussion on the 'net (Google Magnestand).
post #2533 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdS View Post

I'm thinking of upgrading/changing my box speakers to a set of Maggies, specifically either the MMG or MG-12 for the front L/R, and MMG-C / MMG-W for the center and surrounds. I've been running an Anthem MRX-500 AVR, I do not have a separate amp at this time. I think the receiver's amp is fairly good, but obviously does not compare to having a separate amp. Anyone have some experience using an MRX receiver with Maggies without a separate amp? I could add a separate amp down the road, but don't want to have to add the amp at the same time I get the Maggies. The loudest I ever listen to is approximately -10db to reference, but more typically I listen at volumes between -20db to -15db to reference. Appreciate any thoughts/opinions from Maggie owners, not just for using the AVR for the time being, but also with regards to speaker selection. Music is top priority, but we also enjoy HT. Thanks!
I've run succesive sets of Maggies on AVRs and been mostly pretty happy. First was a pair of MG-1b on a Yamaha RX-V3300, rated at 120WRMS/channel at 8 ohms. I replaced the 1b's with MMGs and was not quite as happy, but they were OK. Now I'm powering a set of 1.6QR's with an NAD t785HD and couldn't be happier.

Many of the higher-end AVRs will power Maggies quite well. I seriously doubt switching to separates would do much for the sound on my system.
post #2534 of 3520
Sorry for the multiple posts.
post #2535 of 3520
Steve,

I have a set of SMGa's. The stock crossover is an unusual or at least atypical design. The crossover frequency is 850 Hz, which is very low, and the design is a series circuit instead of the almost universal parallel. There are some advantages to the serial design I gather from some Googling, and the man at Magnestand likes this approach enough that he converts other model's parallel crossovers to serial type.
My SMGa's were dull sounding when I set them up (acquired used), clearly lacking in highs. The high frequency panels seemed to be OK on visual inspection.

Before even listening to them I had to replace the stock electrolytic caps, which I was planning to do anyway, b/c the lead of one broke off as I was trying to read the value. I put in a pair of Solen 51 uF polypropylene caps. I upgraded these $10 caps to $50 Mundorf aluminum in oil 47 uF's, with no change in the sound, which was disappointing and suggested to me that something other than the caps was limiting the highs. I then decided to try bi-wiring, which has improved every other speaker I have tried it on.

The result was dramatic. The highs came up nicely, the overall transparency was startingly better, cymbals were much clearer, the snap of transients nicely floating in the air. This is with add-on ribbon tweeters, but the tweeters were there before the biwiring, so the bi-wiring was what made the difference. The sound is really gorgeous, very natural sounding, beautiful imaging and spread of stage. BTW, for stereo music I am driving these Magnepan's with a McIntosh MC225, 25 watts per channel, which gives 90 dB SPL. Since I normally listen to jazz at 80 or 85 dB max, this is adequate power, which surprised me since I had expected to need much more. (For home theater use I drive them with a Yamaha RX-A720, which provides 160 Watt/channel into 4 ohms (at least for 2 channels), with a subwoofer handling everything below 80 Hz and this makes louder movies than my ears can take.)

Thus, in my experience, with this model Magnepan, a parallel crossover with bi-wiring is much superior to a series without bi-wiring.
http://members.shaw.ca/drrg/a-v.html
post #2536 of 3520
Time to drag this one back to life...

Anybody compared 20.7's to 3.7's, thoughts?
post #2537 of 3520
I currently own a pair of mg|| what r they worth I'm looking to sell them they are in great shape?
post #2538 of 3520
A quick look at eBay and Audiogon yields maybe $200 - $300 for a pair of MG-II's. Those are getting pretty old (as are my MG-IIIa's).
post #2539 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Time to drag this one back to life...

Anybody compared 20.7's to 3.7's, thoughts?

I had a chance to hear a pair of the 20.7's for the first time a couple months ago at my local dealer. I have previously listened to the 3.7's in the same listening room at that dealer. I can say, without a doubt, that the 20.7's are the very best reproduced music I have ever heard in my life. After 30 plus years in high end audio, I've heard quite a few top notch speakers too. I've always had an affinity for the sound of Magnepans...the first high end speakers I owned were a pair of the Tympani 1d's that I bought in 1978 from the same dealer and kept for years until I traded them in on a pair of MGIIIa's.

There was no subwoofer in use for my 20.7 demo and I didn't miss having one at all. Those maggies go deep all by themselves.
post #2540 of 3520
I have pair of magnapan's Mg||,s what should i set the crossover on my receiver? Also I want to upgrade my speakers is there a big difference in sq in the newer Maggie's since mine r almost 30 yrs old?
post #2541 of 3520
The original MG-II's, or if not what version?

1. I would set the crossover around 60 - 80 Hz for those (you can experiment a little).

2. By all accounts the new designs are a significant step up in SQ but I probably would not upgrade unless yours are blown and/or you have the money to step up to MG-3.7's. Even then Magnepan will refurbish pretty cheaply. Not to say the new ones would not sound better, but I would not kill myself to upgrade unless I had the money sitting around. My caveat is that the ribbon makes a big difference in treble SQ, at least to my ears. I own and still use MG-IIIa's; I have owned I's, II's, and heard all but the newest QR and small models (e.g. SMG).

Disclaimer: I have not heard the 3.7's, and 3.6's only briefly in a different system/room.
post #2542 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by strindl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Time to drag this one back to life...

Anybody compared 20.7's to 3.7's, thoughts?

I had a chance to hear a pair of the 20.7's for the first time a couple months ago at my local dealer. I have previously listened to the 3.7's in the same listening room at that dealer. I can say, without a doubt, that the 20.7's are the very best reproduced music I have ever heard in my life. After 30 plus years in high end audio, I've heard quite a few top notch speakers too. I've always had an affinity for the sound of Magnepans...the first high end speakers I owned were a pair of the Tympani 1d's that I bought in 1978 from the same dealer and kept for years until I traded them in on a pair of MGIIIa's.

There was no subwoofer in use for my 20.7 demo and I didn't miss having one at all. Those maggies go deep all by themselves.

Thanks very much! My dealer is not planning to carry them and a plane trip to MN is out right now... mad.gif

I remember when the 20's replaced the Tymp's, still miss the big walls of sound. - Don
post #2543 of 3520
I had the chance to listen to both at lyric HiFi in Manhattan. The 20.7's were the best speakers I have ever heard.
The 3.7's are nice. The 20.7's are mind blowing. I had the room to myself for about half an hour and it was an experience I will never forget. If I ever do a pure 2 channel set up, they would be my speakers.
post #2544 of 3520
Thanks bukiwhitey... Now just have to hit the lottery and I'll be set! smile.gif
post #2545 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by bukiwhitey View Post

I had the chance to listen to both at lyric HiFi in Manhattan. The 20.7's were the best speakers I have ever heard.
The 3.7's are nice. The 20.7's are mind blowing. I had the room to myself for about half an hour and it was an experience I will never forget. If I ever do a pure 2 channel set up, they would be my speakers.

Seems you and I had the exact same reaction to hearing those 20.7's. I'm very fortunate in that we have an exceptional Magnepan dealer in the Milwaukee Area. Audio Emporium has been going strong since 1977 and I've been a customer the entire time. I bought my Tympani 1d's from Dave in 1978 and he has listening rooms that are darn near perfect for evaluating audio gear.
post #2546 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Time to drag this one back to life...

Anybody compared 20.7's to 3.7's, thoughts?

I have both 20.7’s and 3.7’s in my theater. The 20.7’s are really in a league of their own. The better the recording quality and gear feeding the speakers, the more the 20.7’s potential will be revealed.

I got chills the first time I played the 20.7’s, replacing the 3.7’s. And the 20.7’s just get better with more time. I think the 3.7’s are great, but the 20.7’s are a different experience, especially given quality components. But, I will not give up the 3.7’s. I kept the original 3.7’s and bought a second pair of 3.7’s and use the two pairs plus a pair of 3.5’s all as surrounds in the theater.
post #2547 of 3520
Wow, must be a huge room! I have my old IIIa's and four MC-1's in my smallish media room, no way I could fit larger surrounds and rears. It'd be great to have a set-up like yours!

Well, I keep vacillating, but all the feedback and reviews I have read indicate the 20.7's are a big step up over the 3.7's. Interestingly, my dealer is one of the few saying they are not worth it. (Also say I need to upgrade my other components, natch.) My main concern (other than >2x cost) is my room is really too small for the 20.7's (13'3" across the front, 17' 7" deep, 8'6" high -- was to be larger but we added a bedroom and connecting hallway when we finished the basement). Have to keep thinking on it and see what if any bonus comes through this spring.

My old stereo system is in storage or being sold off (mostly older ARC gear) and now I have a Pioneer AVR (SC-27) and bank of Emotiva amps plus an Oppo player. Frankly, my experience and inclination is to plow the $$$ into the speakers; I really think the electronics are up to them. I find speakers and recording quality dominates the sound unless you are using really cheap stuff. I'd love to stick a Bryston or Krell into the mix, but given the choice and finances I'd get the 20.7's before that.

Thanks guys, though you may cost me some change! smile.gif
post #2548 of 3520
Thread Starter 
Don - I'm buying a house in Black Forest. Should be moving in around middle of Feb and will likely have my 3.7's set up shortly thereafter if you want to listen.
post #2549 of 3520
Cool, love to hear them! That is, assuming CO, not Germany... smile.gif
post #2550 of 3520
I'm a prospective 1.7 owner, and was hoping people could help me with an unfortunate dealer/auditioning experience. I listen to a lot of choral music, and the 1.7s I was auditioning (driven with an Outlaw Cronus integrated) audibly distorted at loud levels on very high material. I wasn't trying to blast them, but they were very loud boy's choir passages, the kind that are pretty piercing when heard live. The distortion wasn't graceful or subtle. My current Paradigm 60s don't like this material either but generally just turn ringy. With the 1.7s you could hear what sounded like mylar flapping around. On less challenging material (95% of music) they sounded just wonderful, so I'm torn. Can anyone tell me if this is likely a setup/dealer problem or integral to the speaker? The dealer blamed my recording, but this happened on three independent vocal recordings, always on loud soprano lines, including serious reference material (e.g., Psallat Ecclesia on 2L records, from HDTracks). Thanks for any help!

DJ
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