or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › The Official Magnepan Owners Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 86

post #2551 of 3520
If you turn the volume down and still hear distortion, it's the recording. If not, it is elsewhere in the signal chain. It is possible the amplifier is clipping, but if it really is "mylar" flapping then you are over-driving the 1.7's. I suspect that section must be awfully loud, but if they do not achieve the SPL you desire you will have to try out other speakers, either large Magnepans or other (most likely conventional) speakers.

Panel speakers in general offer lower sensitivity/efficiency and less max SPL than (some) conventional designs. This is partly offset by their line-source dispersion, which tends to fall off at ~3 dB for each doubling of distance compared to ~6 dB for conventional designs. This means a panel may actually be as loud or louder than a conventional design of higher rated sensitivity (dB @ 1 m) when you are further away.

None of which helps if you are simply over-driving the speakers.
post #2552 of 3520
With all due respect I googled "Outlaw Cronus integrated amp" and had no hits. My google search did turn up "Rogue Audio Cronus integrated amp". That is an amusing mistake rogue/outlaw. I have never listened to my 1.7's driven by a 55 watt tube integrated amp (Rogue Audio Cronus integrated amp) so I am not really qualified to answer your question but I am guessing you might have overdriven the electronics, perhaps there is someone out there who has heard that particular pairing and could comment. 55 Watts does not seem like an awful lot considering the Maggie's have a reputation for being high power lovers.

As long as I am writing this I will, with apologies, venture my opinion that you indeed had an unfortunate dealer/auditioning experience. Perhaps there is another dealer near you to audition the 1.7's. If not maybe you can make an appointment at you original dealer and suggest that he audition the 1.7's with a different amplifier, one with greater power and that can drive a 4 ohm speaker. The appointment will allow him time to swamp electronics and be ready for you. You should bring your "problematic" recordings with you.

Just as a point of reference I am using my 1.7's as the main L/R in a home theater/music setup driven by an Emotiva XPA-5 [(Power output (all channels driven): 300 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD), 200 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.1% THD]). I have never heard them stress in an way at all...ever.

I hope this helps, there are many, many helpful people on this particular forum, and I am sure you will get some great advice. Best of Luck.
Edited by stustan - 1/16/13 at 10:10am
post #2553 of 3520
Thread Starter 
I made my 3.7's flap playing Joanna Newsom's "The Book of Right On" from her 'Milk Eyed Mender' album. I was driving them with an amp with 300wpc that is supposed to double down to 600wpc. That song has driven every pair of speakers I've played it on to its knees except a pair of Philharmonic audio speakers. It has a prodigous amount of bass. If someone else could, I would appreciate it if you could download the song and try it out.
post #2554 of 3520
Thanks for the advice. And I *did* mix up Outlaw and Rogue! There wasn't any distortion at low volumes, so I guess I'll try another dealer with more serious electronics. But can amps be the problem with tweeter issues? I thought insufficient power could only be the problem on power-hungry bass material. It would reassure me if others can play 1.7s quite loud (but not ridiculously, unlistenably loud) on sustained high notes like soprano choir.
post #2555 of 3520
Can you assign a decibel number via SPL meter to your listening habits/volumes at home?
post #2556 of 3520
If it really was a 55 W/ch amp it is possible the amp was clipping, depending on the volume and how far away you were, and yes that will cause a nasty HF buzz you will hear in the tweeters even if it is bass notes clipping the output. There's a little info at http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?8484-Clipping-101 . Clipping increases the average power level and adds a little more power to the upper end. Amplifier clipping rarely causes speaker damage, at least IME, as the extra HF energy is usually not all that great, but I have seen cases (and created one or two) where clipping did take out a tweeter.

I have rarely heard anyone complain about Maggies not playing loudly enough, at least once they have actually heard them. You might ask the dealer to hook in a different (more powerful) amplifier. Or see if there are any owners in your area with whom you could arrange an audition (ask here and/or ask the dealer for local owners).

HTH - Don
post #2557 of 3520
Anyone using the MMGW for surrounds, or perhaps even wides?

I currently have Martin Logan ESLs for my front pair and would like to have on-wall ESLs for surrounds but the ones from ML cost an arm and a leg. Especially when you need 4 of them.

My question is, how would the MMGW match up with the Electromotion ESL from ML? I'm hoping for a similar voice and the same imaging / soundstage as my MLs just on the rear walls and side walls to fully complete that bubble of sound.

Also does anyone have pictures of the mounting bracket or the MMGW itself... I'm having trouble finding good clear pictures and I haven't gone to listen to them yet.

Thanks!
post #2558 of 3520
I am using MC-1's and they work fine; the MMGW should be similar and I think woiuld integrate with your ML speakers.

I think there's a picture of the mounting bracket in the manual you can download from Magnepan's website. It is pretty simple on the MC-1's, a couple of L-brackets with holes for pins top and bottom to mount the speakers (sort of a swivel mount). I actually used a costumer (floor stand) modified from an idea on the MUG website since I wasn't quite sure where I wanted to hang them, and then once I had the stands made I just left them on them for convenience and in case I wanted to tweak their position.
post #2559 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I am using MC-1's and they work fine; the MMGW should be similar and I think woiuld integrate with your ML speakers.

I think there's a picture of the mounting bracket in the manual you can download from Magnepan's website. It is pretty simple on the MC-1's, a couple of L-brackets with holes for pins top and bottom to mount the speakers (sort of a swivel mount). I actually used a costumer (floor stand) modified from an idea on the MUG website since I wasn't quite sure where I wanted to hang them, and then once I had the stands made I just left them on them for convenience and in case I wanted to tweak their position.

Appreciate the reply


Have you noticed any issues when you are sitting outside of the sweet spot? Also, how large of a sweet spot do these produce? Is the panel flat or curved?


Thanks, I would call them but they are closed right now... haha
post #2560 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by djm27 View Post

I'm a prospective 1.7 owner, and was hoping people could help me with an unfortunate dealer/auditioning experience. I listen to a lot of choral music, and the 1.7s I was auditioning (driven with an Outlaw Cronus integrated) audibly distorted at loud levels on very high material. I wasn't trying to blast them, but they were very loud boy's choir passages, the kind that are pretty piercing when heard live. The distortion wasn't graceful or subtle. My current Paradigm 60s don't like this material either but generally just turn ringy. With the 1.7s you could hear what sounded like mylar flapping around. On less challenging material (95% of music) they sounded just wonderful, so I'm torn. Can anyone tell me if this is likely a setup/dealer problem or integral to the speaker? The dealer blamed my recording, but this happened on three independent vocal recordings, always on loud soprano lines, including serious reference material (e.g., Psallat Ecclesia on 2L records, from HDTracks). Thanks for any help!

DJ

I'm not at all familiar with an "Outlaw cronus integrated " amp. I can't even find it by googling. What is it and what sort of power output does it have? (do you maybe mean the Rogue Audio Cronus though?)

The 1.7's do need some real power to drive them properly, especially when you are driving them to a high sound level. I use a Threshold S500e to drive mine, rated at 500 watts per channel at the 4 ohm load of the Maggies.

Edit...and reading forward..I see the Rogue was what you meant . That does sound quite a bit underpowered for the 1.7's. I have driven my 1.7's with an Emotiva mini X rated at 80 watts per channel at 4 ohms, and it sounded fine at normal levels. It wasn't capable of driving them properly at ear bleed levels though.
Edited by strindl - 1/16/13 at 9:45pm
post #2561 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB1111 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

I am using MC-1's and they work fine; the MMGW should be similar and I think woiuld integrate with your ML speakers.

I think there's a picture of the mounting bracket in the manual you can download from Magnepan's website. It is pretty simple on the MC-1's, a couple of L-brackets with holes for pins top and bottom to mount the speakers (sort of a swivel mount). I actually used a costumer (floor stand) modified from an idea on the MUG website since I wasn't quite sure where I wanted to hang them, and then once I had the stands made I just left them on them for convenience and in case I wanted to tweak their position.

Appreciate the reply


Have you noticed any issues when you are sitting outside of the sweet spot? Also, how large of a sweet spot do these produce? Is the panel flat or curved?


Thanks, I would call them but they are closed right now... haha

I am not sure what you mean by "issues when listening outside the sweet spot". Maggies, like most panel speakers, are closer to line sources than conventional speakers and so radiate less to the sides and top/bottom than a cone driver. So, response falls off more when you get off-axis than with a conventional speaker. This is more noticeable in the vertical than horizontal dimension. This is helpful in many rooms since floor/ceiling and to some extent side wall reflections are less an issue (you still have the back wave to deal with).

Imaging and sound stage depend upon largely room treatment with Magnepan and other dipoles (planer dynamic or electrostatic, or even those few dipole designs using conventional cones without a conventional cabinet). Damping the back wave and main reflections provides a very stable image and broader sweet spot at the cost of the feeling of "ambiance" from the room (you get only what is on the recording). A larger room helps mitigate the impact of the back wave and other reflections/comb filter effects.

The panels in all models except the center speakers are flat. The Magnepan website has a good description of the panels and pictures of all the models.

HTH - Don
post #2562 of 3520
Jut an FYI, I was playing my 1.6QR's pretty loud the other day and all of a sudden the left panel totally cut out. At first, I assumed I'd licked off the amp's protection circuit but after a cool-down and reset, the left panel still had no sound so I pulled out the speaker and it came back on. After determining that movement of the cables caused it to cut in and out, I finally wound up unscrewing the back plate and found a bad solder joint between the (-) input jack and the jumper jack. Resoldering solved the problem.
post #2563 of 3520
I'm having a tough time trying to blend together my 3.7's with a new Martin Logan Dscent i sub. Anyone else with a similar setup can offer some advice on settings?
post #2564 of 3520
Where do you have the crossovers set? I put mine about 50 Hz with my old MG-IIIa's. If you can adjust the phase (my Rythmik allows that, don't know about ML) you could play a test tone at the crossover frequency and adjust the phase (or distance in your AVR) for maximum sound to match the phase at the crossover (where it really matters).

It's also possible the sub is exciting room modes and you may need to move it around for best sound.
post #2565 of 3520
post #2566 of 3520
I have a 26 year old pair of mgIIIa's and an old Velodyne servo sub (repaired with fabric glue) and they integrate extremely well together. I find placement of the sub is critical and of course room dependent. I set the levels using the stereophile test CDs and a radio shack SPL meter.

Interestingly, I prefer the Maggie's to run straight and not through the Velodyne crossover. That said, with proper positioning and a low setting on the sub amp, I can get the system pretty/kinda flat to 20 Hz.

I run the Maggie's using Emotiva mono blocks and a Sonic Frontiers preamp with Mullard tube.
post #2567 of 3520
Shoot, my MG-IIIa's are only 25 years old... smile.gif

The Velodyne crossover may not be the best for driving the HF amp; IIRC the HPF on the Velodyne I tried back then did not sound good and my preamp would clip it regularly. I used to use an ARC (tube) crossover, then rolled my own in several flavors (active and passive), and am currently using a dbx 223. I prefer to roll off the bottom end of the Maggies as they do not like very LF signals, especially at high levels, and I don't like wasting the amp headroom on stuff they can't reproduce. If you want to pay a little more, Marchand Electronics makes some really good units, and if you want to pay much more Bryston makes a nice crossover. For much less you could build a simple passive HPF.

Thanks for chiming in, glad to see another of us old Maggie owners (vs. old owners of Maggies)! smile.gif - Don
post #2568 of 3520
Well in my case, old owner (53) and speakers. Hard to even imagine that I have owned these panels half my life. The only repairs I have ever made are new tweeters and a few dozen fuses. With the Emotiva XPA100 s I don't even blow fuses any more.

Don, have you tried bi-amping the 3a's with your crossovers? I always wonder what mine would sound like with a better amp on the top end.

Another question, do you find the left and right imaging gets a little smeared on the Maggie's compared to a point source mini monitor type speaker? The imaging is perfect center stage, but seems to stretch for instruments outside of center stage. Maybe I still have mine too close to the back wall (3.5 feet)?
post #2569 of 3520
I have a pair of MG IIc speakers that I purchased new in 1987. Paid $1245, and they are still in great shape. Is there any market value for them? I looked on Audiogon and Ebay but couldn't find a listing from any other sellers. I live in the Phoenix area and I know shipping costs to other parts of the country would be quite expensive. Any thoughts?
post #2570 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post

Well in my case, old owner (53) and speakers. Hard to even imagine that I have owned these panels half my life. The only repairs I have ever made are new tweeters and a few dozen fuses. With the Emotiva XPA100 s I don't even blow fuses any more.

Don, have you tried bi-amping the 3a's with your crossovers? I always wonder what mine would sound like with a better amp on the top end.

Another question, do you find the left and right imaging gets a little smeared on the Maggie's compared to a point source mini monitor type speaker? The imaging is perfect center stage, but seems to stretch for instruments outside of center stage. Maybe I still have mine too close to the back wall (3.5 feet)?

Don't think I ever blew a fuse, maybe once, and my tweeters are still good but they were in storage for several years. When I called them the nice folk at Magnepan were surprised I hadn't replaced the tweeters yet.

Mine were bi-amped most of their life, using a variety of amps and crossovers. Last was with a Counterpoint SA-220 on the bottom and ARC D-79 on top with a custom (DIY) crossover. Sounded great, although a big ML or Krell amp had better bass than the Counterpoint. I went with the amp that best matched my D-79 while improving the bass. Currently they are driven by an Emotiva XPA-2 after a Pioneer SC-27 AVR. One thing to be aware is that the impedance dips to about 2.5 - 3 ohms at HF due to the ribbon tweeter, something to keep in mind selecting amps. Not as bad as most ESLs, or the old Apogees, but does go low.

Not sure I would bi-amp again, can't afford all the toys and like the way they sound now. I also noticed they have taken away the bi-amp option from the new line, not sure why.

My room is very dead, which improves imaging at the cost of "spaciousness". I have some recording background so the dead-as-a-control-room sound does not bother me; the ambiance I get is whatever is on the recording without a bunch of room reflections. That said, Maggies and big panels (planar dynamic or ESL) have always put out a bit broader image than life, especially if you are close to them. Because of that rear sound wave, they are very sensitive to placement, so you can try tweaking them just a little in each direction and see what happens. I think 3.5' is enough, but depending on the room a few inches back, forth, or sideways and a minor change in toe-in can make a significant difference. If the image is too wide, I usually put the tweeters inside, although my present set-up is very nearly near-field (small room, alas) and I have the tweeters out. Just where they ended up after all the measuring and tweaking and I've been to lazy to flip the speakers yet AGAIN...
Edited by DonH50 - 3/1/13 at 4:37pm
post #2571 of 3520
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapper58 View Post

I have a pair of MG IIc speakers that I purchased new in 1987. Paid $1245, and they are still in great shape. Is there any market value for them? I looked on Audiogon and Ebay but couldn't find a listing from any other sellers. I live in the Phoenix area and I know shipping costs to other parts of the country would be quite expensive. Any thoughts?

Shipping would be ugly as they would probably have to go freight. I asked twice at FedEx and got two different answers, a yes and a no, but haven't seriously considered selling mine. I was checking into shipping them back to be rebuilt, but since they are still running haven't bothered. I will go through my dealer if and when.

My limited research has shown very low prices for old Maggies, like $100 - $300 for working pairs. Very disappointing. I think fears of blown tweeters, delamination, etc. hurts their resale value, and of course Magnepan does not encourage buying used. IME speakers in general do not hold their value the way electronics do. The market for Maggies is fairly small, so the used market even less. Compounded by the fact that most of us keep them "forever"; few people want to buy a 30 year old speaker no matter how great it is.

I bought my MG-IIIa's in 1988 for about $2k. When they play out, I will have to debate mightily between getting them rebuilt (~$1k last I checked a couple of years ago), getting a new pair of 3.x's or 20.x's, or maybe a pair of ESLs (Sanders have also appealed to me and I can go visit Roger and Angela -- only an hour or so away from my place).
post #2572 of 3520
At a thousand dollars for a rebuild it wouldn't make sense to not repair mine. I have a new pair of Goldenear Triton Twos and an old set of NHT 3.3s in my house, and the old Maggie's are the best and most refined of the bunch.

I bought mine in Phoenix in 1987. I moved them five times since, and still have the original boxes and tweeter guards.

I kept blowing fuses with my old Adcom GFA 555 amp. In the mid 90s I shifted to all tubes, and that is when I set my Maggie's to the side. I couldn't drive them adequately with 80 watts. I assumed the speakers were worn out until I got the 350 W Emotiva mono blocks.

Have you heard the new 3.7? How do they compare to to 3a?
post #2573 of 3520
I have not heard the 3.7's. On my list, but finding time to visit a dealer is a major challenge and I just haven't been that motivated. Plus I am mortally afraid of coming home with them and I can't afford that right now...
post #2574 of 3520
Yeah, I know the fear.

I went ahead and moved the Maggies four feet out from the back wall and then experimented with various subwoofer settings and positions. The amazing thing is that my MG3a's were still up 3db at 32 Hz without the sub. I guess after 26 years the bass panels really loosen up!
post #2575 of 3520
There was a lot of debate about the claim of panel "break-in" in the past so ages ago I actually ran some simple controlled experiments to measure the LF response. I don't recall all the results, but there was significant shift in the first 10 - 20 hours of playing (pink noise) and none after about 50 - 100*. I cross over to my sub around 50 Hz. The Maggies will reach 30+ Hz as claimed, but distortion rises significantly. That and the requirement for large displacement (high volume), especially for HT or some orchestral music, means IME/IMO the very low end is better handled by a good sub. My old sub was a DIY servo unit before servo was popular or even well-known; currently I use a pair of Rythmiks and have been very happy.

I sooo want to listen to the new models, and meet Roger again and hear his ESLs, but am waiting for that lottery number to hit.... smile.gif - Don

* We ran the same tests with several other speakers. The conventional designs, I think B&W 801's and a few others, also had a break-in period but much shorter, like minutes to maybe an hour. I can't quite recall how often I sampled; I think it was something like 10, 30, 60 min then every hour during the day, about ten hours worth, then 10-hour intervals.
post #2576 of 3520
Thanks for sharing the break in experiences.

It sounds like those Rythmik subs are great. Honestly, I prefer the bass quality of the MG3a's to my 25 year old Velodyne. I have a Mirage subwoofer in my HT which is a little better than the Velodyne, but probably nowhere close to the performance of the Rythmiks.
post #2577 of 3520
Hmmm... I have a 10" (I think) Mirage sub I got with a system comprised on OM5's, their center, and Omnisats for surrounds and rears. I was not terribly happy with the sub, and the smaller speakers cut off too high for my tastes. I had a decent'ish Infinity sub and again was a bit disappointed. Unfortunately, the foam surround was gone on my old DIY sub's driver (from an Infinity IRS), and after doing some research Rythmiks percolated (fairly quickly) to the top of the pile. I did listen to a few other subs, mostly 2x - 5x the price, and have been very happy with the little Rythmiks.

I was very happy to get my old Maggies out of storage, up and running again!
post #2578 of 3520
Hi cardiff,

I was wondering how the Goldenear Tritons sound compare to Maggies. Have read some very positive reviews given the price. How do you like them compare to the 3a's? I would think they have more impact than the 3's.
post #2579 of 3520
Uh, maybe PM or post in a Triton thread?
post #2580 of 3520
I'm getting a new plasma display, and wanted to look at upgrading the audio side at the same time. My current setup is MC1's for left/rt channels, and a CC3 for the center. It is quite a cost hit to upgrade to MMC2's and the CC5 center, can anyone comment if the differences are worthwhile? Is switching to just the CC5 center a good "bang for the buck" upgrade, or vice-versa on the MMC2's? I've not heard these newer models, just not sure what to expect.

Currently using ADCOM 7605 amp and Pioneer Elite pre/pro with the ADCOM driving the MC1's and center, and a Supercube sub-woofer.

Can the MMC2's be bi-amped? Can the CC5 be bi-amped? The ADCOM is 175 watts into 4 ohms, the Pioneer 140 watts into 8 ohms, not sure of the 4 ohm rating on the Pioneer SC-67.

I've always owned and loved Magnepans, I think this setup could stand some improvement as I'm not overwhelmed with the sound quality- any advice would be much appreciated. I am committed to wall mounted configurations though.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › The Official Magnepan Owners Thread