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Xbox 360 crushing blacks in games but not DVD... - Page 3

post #61 of 211
11/24/08 at 1:43pm
Just curious about all these settings here, I myself want to try to get the best settings as well while using the 360 on my Samsung LN-T4042H.
I'm just a little confused, while I am using an HDMI cable for a hookup, and after reading everything about properly using the greyscale, am I to,

1. Adjust my settings so I can't see below 16?
2. Adjust my settings so I can see 0/8/16?
3. Mess around with my HDMI black level?
4. Expanded or standard for reference levels?

Sorry about the barrage of noobish questions, I'm still fairly new to this and I'd like to try to get the best picture i can get, Thanks
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post #62 of 211
11/24/08 at 2:35pm
The Xbox 360 isn't displaying 0-255 correctly, from what I understand by the tests that have gone on is that it is simply expanding 16-235 to 0-255.

I was advised to set my Xbox to Standard and Auto or Source, and to set my Samsung to HDMI Black Level: Low. I'm guessing this keeps it in the 16-235 range so that it doesn't stretch the colors to fit.

Unless Microsoft patches this then apparently the only way to get 0-255 correctly is by using a VGA cable.

Am I wrong?
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post #63 of 211
11/24/08 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArciliteI View Post

Just curious about all these settings here, I myself want to try to get the best settings as well while using the 360 on my Samsung LN-T4042H.
I'm just a little confused, while I am using an HDMI cable for a hookup, and after reading everything about properly using the greyscale, am I to,

1. Adjust my settings so I can't see below 16?
2. Adjust my settings so I can see 0/8/16?
3. Mess around with my HDMI black level?
4. Expanded or standard for reference levels?

Sorry about the barrage of noobish questions, I'm still fairly new to this and I'd like to try to get the best picture i can get, Thanks

I am using HDMI. I was advised this:

1. Adjust brightness so that everything below 16 is crushed
2. N/A
3. Switch the HDMI Black Level to Low on the television
4. Switch the Xbox reference levels to Standard and HDMI Color Space to Auto or Source

Adjust the brightness last of course. lol.
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post #64 of 211
11/24/08 at 3:22pm
This may be irrelevent(and if it is i'm sorry), but does anyone have any experience with the Samsung LN-T4042H for the 360? My question is,

1. Should DNIe be on or off to optimize colors for the 360?
2. Should the color space option on the tv be set to auto or wide for the 360?
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post #65 of 211
11/24/08 at 3:31pm
I have a Samsung LN-T2354H. I was told DNie off and color space to auto.

By the way, I just did a little test of my own using Dead Space and my HDMI and VGA cables.

Colors seem way more accurate with VGA. The Scorpion rig actually looks red now and so does the light from its visor. Orange now looks orange. This is with VGA, Xbox to 1360x768, Expanded. I think I might run with VGA for now.

I took pictures with my cell phone just to gauge the lighting. Without adjusting the in-game brightness it looks like the VGA is brighter. When I adjust them to around the same level in-game they look the same except VGA looks more color accurate and the colors look deeper. This is with my eyes though and not a meter.

As far as visual sharpness there doesn't appear to be a noticeable difference between the two.
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post #66 of 211
11/24/08 at 3:42pm
so i'm guessing vga is the way to go?
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post #67 of 211
11/24/08 at 3:50pm
I would go with what your eyes like. I like the color accuracy of the VGA. If you can, try them both out for yourself. If Microsoft would update so that HDMI will handle 0-255 properly then I'll switch back. There isn't a difference in sharpness that my eyes are picking up. Dead Space looks better now.

I wish I had quality comparison pictures to upload but alas I no longer have my god of a camera. 1.3 mp cell phone picks don't retain accuracy.

I'm interested to hear Parasite and Cybersoga's thoughts because I'm still n00bish at some of this stuff.
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post #68 of 211
11/24/08 at 4:08pm
I hate to keep repeating myself but all this varies by display , certainly there are common factors with the 360 but many displays handle signals differently (especially on different inputs) . I am OCD when it comes to viewing an accurate image but nobody here can tell YOU what will look best to YOU on YOUR display , all we can do is make suggestions .

- Jason
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post #69 of 211
11/24/08 at 4:11pm
The HDMI and component outputs of the Xbox also have accurate color, but many displays do a better job with VGA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillTheApex View Post

I would go with what your eyes like. I like the color accuracy of the VGA. If you can, try them both out for yourself. If Microsoft would update so that HDMI will handle 0-255 properly then I'll switch back. There isn't a difference in sharpness that my eyes are picking up. Dead Space looks better now.

I wish I had quality comparison pictures to upload but alas I no longer have my god of a camera. 1.3 mp cell phone picks don't retain accuracy.

I'm interested to hear Parasite and Cybersoga's thoughts because I'm still n00bish at some of this stuff.
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post #70 of 211
11/24/08 at 4:21pm
Exactly, with VGA the only adjustments I had to make were to brightness and I turned the white up a little under my color control.

With HDMI for some reason I just couldn't adjust to get the colors accurate. I also happen to be very amateur as well, so that was against me. lol.

I'll get to do it all over again when I upgrade to another TV and use my white Samsung as a computer monitor. YAY!
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post #71 of 211
11/24/08 at 5:39pm
I do not think the display is the issue here. It seems like the 360 is not doing 0-255 over hdmi like vga is doing it correctly. This could also be a major issue with people using a pc monitor and using hdmi-dvi cable. I thought all this time the 360 was doing 0-255 properly with hdmi. Apparently not. Can you test hdmi as well like you did with vga and report your findings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

I hate to keep repeating myself but all this varies by display , certainly there are common factors with the 360 but many displays handle signals differently (especially on different inputs) . I am OCD when it comes to viewing an accurate image but nobody here can tell YOU what will look best to YOU on YOUR display , all we can do is make suggestions .

- Jason
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post #72 of 211
11/24/08 at 10:21pm
I got a question and now that I changed things to the following:

720p
hdmi black level: Low
hdmi black level: Standard
hdmi color space: Auto

Why is it when watching a video. My tv seems to switch signals over or some thing? Because it makes a noise. Goes blank like it is adjusting some thing. And then shows the screen again. Tv is a Samsung LN-T3253H. I thought the signals would all be equal with either games or movies/videos. Also. What is really the difference in hdmi color space between auto and source? They both seem to do the exact same thing?
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post #73 of 211
11/25/08 at 8:27am
That's the Xbox switching the HDMI color space. I'm not certain what exactly it is doing though. Perhaps Parasite or Cybersoga could fill us in.
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post #74 of 211
11/25/08 at 11:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillTheApex View Post

That's the Xbox switching the HDMI color space. I'm not certain what exactly it is doing though. Perhaps Parasite or Cybersoga could fill us in.

With auto/source on my TV its switching between RGB with games/computer graphics and YCbCr with DVD/video.

I think the difference between Auto and Source depends on the TV - Auto probably limits itself to RGB on TV's that don't support YCbCr (Such as a DVI monitor with HDMI adapter).
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post #75 of 211
11/25/08 at 12:10pm
While your paying attention: Is there going to be any disadvantages visually to using VGA on my TV instead of HDMI? Since the XBox isn't doing 0-255 correctly over HDMI.
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post #76 of 211
11/25/08 at 1:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillTheApex View Post

While your paying attention: Is there going to be any disadvantages visually to using VGA on my TV instead of HDMI? Since the XBox isn't doing 0-255 correctly over HDMI.

I don't know, I havn't tried it - sorry!
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post #77 of 211
11/25/08 at 4:10pm
I found hdmi looks much better on my Sammy lcd then vga. Vga looks really soft. Hdmi is razor sharp. Plus vga is analog and hdmi is digital. The lcd is after all a digital display. I have used component, vga and now hdmi with the unit being a falcon. My previous 2 was non falcons. I would surely stick with hdmi if. I was you. But. That is just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillTheApex View Post

While your paying attention: Is there going to be any disadvantages visually to using VGA on my TV instead of HDMI? Since the XBox isn't doing 0-255 correctly over HDMI.
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post #78 of 211
11/25/08 at 4:11pm
Makes sense. Going to switch mine to source. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybersoga View Post

With auto/source on my TV its switching between RGB with games/computer graphics and YCbCr with DVD/video.

I think the difference between Auto and Source depends on the TV - Auto probably limits itself to RGB on TV's that don't support YCbCr (Such as a DVI monitor with HDMI adapter).
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post #79 of 211
11/27/08 at 10:29pm
I just tested this. You are certainly right my friend. This is crazy. It displays 0-255 fine like this but if you use optimal resolution which is pc levels. With the same exact settings which would be correct for pc levels. Its a no go. What in the world could be going on?!? Normal, Expanded and finally Source is the way to go. You just need to stay away from running actual pc resolutions. You need to be running 720p, 1080i or 1080p for this to work properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin CZ View Post

Here's what I have found in regards to PROPERLY calibrating black levels on my 67" with this test pattern..


TV: (these settings work on BOTH the 360 and ps3)
Brightness at 44. This is THE sweet spot for brightness.
Black Adjust: Off (any other options will crush blacks)
HDMI Black Level: Normal (Low will crush blacks to hell)

360 via HDMI:

360 Reference Level: Expanded. It is the ONLY option that will display full 0-255 range. Intermediate and Standard makes blacks gray.

Ps3: RGB Range: Full and Super-White On.

Test it out. Put that test image up on the TV and put the TV in 4:3 mode (the black bars are the blackest blacks you can get, so match the 0 range to the black bars, no more no less.).

Changing the HDMI levels and Black adjust will compromise the optimal brightness, which is why you should have them off. This is pertaining to Samsung TV's.
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post #80 of 211
11/28/08 at 7:56pm
WTF?!

So, TV: Normal, Xbox 360: expanded and source will do 0-255 correctly?

On HDTV Resolutions, of course.
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post #81 of 211
11/28/08 at 9:38pm
Yes sir! Also try it with those patterns as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillTheApex View Post

WTF?!

So, TV: Normal, Xbox 360: expanded and source will do 0-255 correctly?

On HDTV Resolutions, of course.
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post #82 of 211
11/28/08 at 11:23pm
Confused, what would be the settings to use for a Samsung Plasma.

TV HDMI - low or normal?
Xbox - standard or expanded?
- auto, or source?

Also, any recommendations for a Panny Plasma?
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post #83 of 211
11/29/08 at 9:28am
I would assume it would be the same for plasma but I'm not certain.

TV: Normal
Xbox 360: Expanded and Source

Use the test pattern on the first page to confirm.
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post #84 of 211
12/1/08 at 12:30am
Wow reading this whole thread confuses me badly. For the reason that some of you are certain that 0-255 on hdmi is not really 0-255, when some of you say it is true 0-255.

So what's the end verdict, is full 0-255 over HDMI the same levels as VGA or not?
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post #85 of 211
12/1/08 at 8:52am
To get full 0-255 over HDMI you have to be using HDTV resolutions and not PC resolutions. The TV HDMI black level has to be on Normal and the Xbox set to Expanded and HDMI Color Space: Source. For some reason the Xbox doens't send the color correctly in PC resolutions.
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post #86 of 211
12/1/08 at 9:12am
Hmm I see, would I need to label my HDMI 1 port on my samsung LNT-4065f to PC to have it accept pc levels or is that not required?
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post #87 of 211
12/1/08 at 10:54am
Not required, leave it blank or change it to something other than PC.
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post #88 of 211
12/1/08 at 1:45pm
So would you guys care to comment on what the 360 video settings should be when using component cables connected to an LCD TV (native 1080p)?
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post #89 of 211
12/1/08 at 1:58pm
Sure I'll help you out.

I'm pretty sure component cables don't have the capability of displaying full range RGB, so on your 360 have your reference levels set to standard if the option even exists on your 360.
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post #90 of 211
12/1/08 at 2:02pm
I do know I have the option for expanded, intermediate and standard. Of course, I dont have an HDMI output, so I chose component over VGA (out of convenience).

So that's it. I'll go with standard.
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