Premier Acoustic PA-120 - Page 8

I received my cherry PA-120 the week during Christmas. The sub showed up cracked on the top right hand corner (probably UPS's fault). I emailed Mike and he said that he would either refund me 50 bucks or i could have it replaced. I choose to have it replaced. I emailed him back my pick-up address and didn't hear a response back (Last Friday). Then Wednesday UPS came to pick up the sub which I had not packaged back up yet. It would have been nice if Mike would have emailed me back and let me know to package up the sub and place it at my front door on Wednesday because UPS was going to come by. My impressions of this sub as well as impressions based on what everyone else has been saying from the start are:

1. The sub sounds just fantastic. It sounds good with everything from music to movies to regular television watching. It shakes the house.
2. For 230 bucks it is a great value for people who can't afford a $500 sub.
3. Communication is poor on the sellers end. (Ask MarcSparks)
4. UPS sucks.

On a side note, people were asking about the subs weight. I just weighed it on a digital scale and it weighed 56 lbs. It actually seems heavier then that. With all this being said, I would purchase this sub again.

LOL. No I'm not. I'm just looking for a sub and asking questions

Ah, sorry. If I said "sound direct", it was a mistake, of course. I meant http://www.sounddistributors.com/

They're the same people as the sellers on ebay, brothers, etc, etc along with a bunch of other companies that they run for "google reasons". I brought them up only because of that 15% coupon that is mentioned on the first page of this thread that makes H100 only $10 more expensive than PA-120 now.

This is good to hear, but sorry to hear about your situation. I just hope that my sub is in tact.

Chris

My wife and I agreed that whatever sub I picked out would have to be concealed inside our entertainment cabinet. When mine came in I left it outside of the entertainment cabinet to the right and left it turned off for two days (it was difficult to do that by the way). Two nights later when my wife and I were watching television she looks over at me and says "what the hell is that?" I say, "it is the sub I picked out, and its been sitting there for two days and you haven't even noticed it...see hun it kinda just blends in." Clearly the sub is is noticeable and doesn't really blend in, but it sits outside of the entertainment cabinet just like I wanted.

Are you a moderator? If not, you can take your directive for me to move on and shove it. If you are, let me see if the confusion can be clarified. First of all, does it not concern anyone that there *IS* confusion where these subs are concerned.

If Bic is not the same as Premier Acoustics, why do their subs look nearly identical?

The ebay guys call the PA-120 a Bic sub but clearly the "PA" designation would say it is a Premier Acoustics. So which is it? Or are the REALLY one and the same?

If this is a Premier Acoustics sub, does it matter if Bic got a cease and desist order on using copper colored drivers? It would only matter if the companies are one and the same. Or, perhaps, their common Chinese contract manufacturer is really the one that got the cease and desist order. And, by the way, I have some bad experiences with LCD TV companies where the supposed American company was really just a front for a Chinese company that was supposedly only the contract manufacturer.

Again, this sub doesn't show up on either of their websites but I have compiled the specs of relevant subs below. What is interesting is that the PA-120 shares the amp with the Premier Acoustics PA-12W but shares the enclosure design with the Bic H-100 and Bic VK-12. All of the PA models (which I assume are all supposedly from Premier Acoustics) have polygraphite drivers like the H-100 has but clearly the PA-120 differs in form from the rest.

It could be that this is a great sub but I would be a lot happier if there wasn't this identity confusion and the sub showed up on one of their websites and preferrably the Premier Acoustics website since that seems to be the most logical source.

Bic Acoustec H100
Price (MSRP): $499 / Each
Design: Heavy Duty Front-Firing 12" Powered Subwoofer, BASH designed amp.*
Frequency Response: 24Hz - 200Hz (+/- 3dB) variable (adjustable crossover)
Sensitivity: 90 dB
Drivers: Heavy Duty 12" Long-Throw Poly-graphite woofer with high power magnet.
Magnetic Shielding: NO
Gold-Plated Terminals:YES
Recommended Power: Built-in Amplifier Power - 150 Watt RMS, 500-Watt Dynamic Peak
Impedance: 8 ohms
Dimensions: 17" H x 15" W x 18 1/4" D
Weight: 42 lbs Each
Warranty: 2 Year Parts and Labor.

Bic VK-12
Price (MSRP): $599/Each
Design: 12" 1000-watt peak, Heavy Duty Front Firing Kevlar*Subwoofer with BASH Amp.*Contemporary laquer top & bottom.
Frequency Response: 24HZ -200HZ (+/-3dB), Bypassable 24dB/oct. continuously variable 30-90 Hz low pass filter
Sensitivity: 92dB
Drivers: 12" Premium Grade Kevlar woofer.
Magnetic Shielding: NO
Gold-Plated Terminals:YES
Recommended Power: Built in BASH Amplifier: Power 250-watt RMS, 1000 watt peak
Impedance: 8 ohms
Dimensions: 17"H x 15" W x 18 1/4"D
Weight: 48 Pounds
Warranty: 7 Years Woofer, 2 Year Amplifier

Bic F-12
Price (MSRP): $449/Each
Design: Front-firing 12" 475-watt peak powered subwoofer
Frequency Response: 25Hz - 200Hz
Sensitivity: 90dB
Drivers: 12" Injection molded woofer with heavy duty surround
Magnetic Shielding: YES
Gold-Plated Terminals:YES
Recommended Power: Built-in Amplifier Power: 475 watts Dynamic Peak, 150 watts RMS continuous
Impedance: 8 ohms
Dimensions: 17"H x 14 3/4"W x 17 1/4"D
Weight: 42 Pounds Each
Warranty: 5 Years Parts & Labor

Premier Acoutics PA-10W
MSRP: $499
Design/Driver: Front-firing polygraphite 10" Active Subwoofer
Sensitivity: 85DB
Ohms: :8 Ohms*
Frequency Responses: 24HZ-20KHZ span (?!)
Wattage: 150- 500 Watts
Size: 18.35" x 13" x 15.75" (H X W X D )
Weight: 46 pounds each
Warranty: 5 year Warranty
Color: Cherry or Black

Premier Acoustics PA-12W
MSRP: $599
Design/Driver: Front-firing polygraphite 12" Active Subwoofer
Sensitivity: 85DB
Ohms: :8 Ohms*
Frequency Responses: 24HZ-20KHZ span (?!)
Wattage: 200- 650 Watts
Size: 19" x 14" x 19" (H X W X D )
Weight: 56 pounds each
Warranty: 5 year Warranty
Color: Cherry or Black

Premier Acoustics (??) PA-120
MSRP: $599/Each
Design/Driver: Front-firing 12˝*Premium Grade Polygraphite Titanium Color Subwoofer Cone
Wattage: 200 watts RMS, 650-watts peak
Weight: 60 pounds
Frequency Response: 24Hz - 200Hz (+/- 3dB)
Warranty: 5 Year Warranty Woofer, 2 Year Warranty Amp
Inputs: Speaker level and RCA inputs
Size: 17˝ H x 15˝ W x 18-1/4˝ D
Colors: Black or cherry with Black Lacquer Top and Bottom

Is this enough information for you...jerk?!?!

I've been in internet retailing before and it sounds to me like the seller was swamped with orders and was waiting on the shipment. Instead of letting everyone know it was going to take more time, they probably generated the UPS shipping labels so people would feel like "something is happening" which would also explain the fact that UPS states 41lbs as the shipping weight. Its too bad that situation turned this thread into a "shipping problems" thread versus one filled with reviews but I am sure that when this batch arrives that will change.

Remember you can have things quickly or cheaply but usually not both when it comes to shopping, especially online as most places are all about the price and service tends to take a bit of a hit as a result. Not how it should be but usually is.

I personally can't wait to get mine. I don't really care what brand it is as most stuff is made in china by the same people it seems . Besides, if it's screwed up or DOA they do come with a warranty and the sellers did have alot of positive reviews (99% or something) so that has to count for something!

Good luck to everyone that ordered, I'm hoping that this thread fills up with positive reviews in the next few days, mine gets here on Monday and I will, of course, be out of town until Tuesday (figures)

Found this on the PA website, anyone else notice they are located in Las Vegas NV? Isn't that where Acoustic Sound Design is?
Premier Acoustic
3859 Valley View Blvd #30
Las Vegas NV 89103

Store Hours are:
Monday through Friday
9:00AM to 5:00PM PST

Phone:
(702)688-0367

Email Address:

sales@premieracoustic.com

info@premieracoustic.com

Per your request...

The cracked corner is the reason its going back. Every time I walk down the hallway it seems my eyes are drawn to it. For the money I paid, I would rather it look as great as it sounds.

^^ Nice^^

Capt Jack, I ordered it from Acoustic Sound Design.

Seems like the PA-120 is a hybrid.

Seems that my suspicion about you only being here to troll is confirmed. Way to go- you win at the internet. You do fail at your attempt to get me riled up though. I fail to see anything in my posts that deserves childish namecalling in response.

Anyway, my point was that you had posted the same thing three times in what seemed to be an attempt to stir up folks who either owned or had ordered the sub. It seems that you are the only person with the "concerns" that you have noted.

However, you have a lot of good information in your post, so I'm not sure if you're just trolling or poor at maintaining your cool and have legitimate questions. If you have legitimate questions... what was the response from Premier Acoustics when you contacted them? If you haven't done that and you're truly concerned about the subwoofer's credentials, why haven't you?





*edit* Juicy, you're a better man than I. If I would've had that crack my head would've hit the ceiling! Get that thing returned buddy.

finally got updated and should be getting mine on monday per ups and i am able to compare it with mirage s10 that i have. might order another one if i like what it brings. and put the mirage s10 in my bedroom. plan on running dual subs in my home theater.

well, if anybody is interested, I unhooked my Outlaw LFM-1 EX to ship back to Outlaw as a big ol piece of finish flaked off the cabinet (they were great about it and are shipping me a replacement) and hooked my PA-120 back up for the couple of days until I get the new one specifically so I could try it out on the legendary skadoosh scene in Kung Fu Panda, since that seems to be a litmus test these days. I am happy to report that it handles that scene at loud enough levels to greatly upset my dog with no problems. FWIW, I take for granted that the PA-120 is basically a rebadged BIC in the same way that the Outlaw is a basically a rebadged Hsu. The PA-120 handles itself VERY well for a $230 sub, and if I had to go back to it after my Outlaw, which is between 2 and 3 times as expensive, I wouldn't be particularly upset or feel undergunned. Yes, the Outlaw will definitely go louder/hit harder than the PA, but the PA has no problem going louder than I am ever likely to listen to it, and I daresay that would be true for an awful lot of folks not trying to make their ears bleed or needing to fill a huge room (my livingroom is not really small--20x20x10 or so). I have come across VERY few scenes where the Outlaw's going down to 15-16hz is noticeable compared to the PA, and there are times when the PA almost seems more...I dunno, "musical" in a sense, as far as hearing the sound rather than feeling it, though I suspect that is a front vs downfiring difference to some degree, but also that more "feel" can somewhat overwhelm the "sound" part, if that makes sense.

Anyway, if someone reading this is wondering if they could REALLY possibly be satisfied with a PA-120 when clearly the sub forum people feel that a wall full of $1500 subs is the bare MINIMUM to suffice for any home theater......all I can say is that I am betting that 95% of the folks out there looking for a sub for home theater would be thrilled with the PA-120.

Well explained. Thank you

Has anyone compared this sub to the Bic100 if so how does this match up?
Im currently looking for a second sub and already have an H-100and was considering
another H-100,Pa120 or the VK12and was curios as to differences is SQ or output?

according to some of the post here pa-120 is slightly better than the h100 and the vk12 is rated higher than all three. between the h100 and pa-120 you might not hear the difference if you listen to them side by side if you do it might just be a slight difference.
My personal opinion if I already have the h100 I would match it with that.

Just got mine today from UPS. They had some shipping delays and I didn't read that well in the auction that is was a pre-order. I'll be hooking it up when I get home. I'll be glad to have bass back in my system, lol.

hey beer, where are you located and when did yours ship out?

Captain,
Love the pics. Ouch...Although that is small scratch compared to something bigger. Looks good!

Chris

Just outside LA, in Chino. So it almost shipped and arrived the same day.

juicyjbo, your chip in the finish is actuallu VERY similar to what happened with my Outlaw. My own feeling looking at mine was that there may have been an imperfection in the wood under the finish which perhaps weakened the finish or affected it's ability to adhere to that spot maybe (although yours looks like it could have just taken a ding in shipping). The cherry is handsome, though--that's what I had ordered when I ordered my PA but he sent the black *sigh*. Glad to hear he's taking care of you. Though it sounds like the usual job haha.

Well, if you fail to see how "If all you have to contribute is negativity and no information... maybe it's time to move on? " doesn't deserve a negative response then you need to work on your people skills. And what exactly confirms that I am a troll? That I point out the possibility that there might be an issue with this sub or the company that makes them? Or is it that I back that up with facts?


And no one has provided a meaningful response to that concern. Also, I don't care what concerns everyone else has. I am considering buying this sub and so I am looking for answers to my concerns. I have no control over what other people think.


Good point. I will do that.

So, what do you have to say about the information I posted? Do you have any answers to the questions I posed?

There's a difference between a negative response and namecalling. However, moving on-

Can I answer your questions? Nothing concrete, no. I'm not sure anyone is going to be able to answer your questions to your satisfaction outside of the manufacturer. I postulated (as did some others) that the sub looks to be the 10" enclosure with the 12" sub's amp and a different woofer. I also see two or three positive first-hand reviews posted since your last post. If those aren't acceptable, then at this point the only thing that will be for you is the manufacturer.

I'd honestly love to hear what they have to say, but it's not something I'm greatly concerned about. Having trouble finding it at the moment, but there was a package system with the PA-120 and matching speakers. I'll see if I can find it again.

People, chill... There is no need to insult each other. The reviews around PA-120 seem to be positive overall. Somebody in another thread said that PA-120 is slightly better than H100, the ebay headlines say (incorrectly though) that PA-120 is a replacement for H100... Though it looks like the excitement around PA-120 was first because of deep live.com discounts and comparison with H100, new users like it... Yeah, the "it's a new model, hence it's better" claims look strange, and there is really no solid information about PA-120 yet, but on the other hand people swear by it, so it must be worth smth.

So no one has done a nearfield sweep on it yet? I would like to see those plots. A guy near me is selling a Cadence CSW-15 but it is $70 more and it is HUGE. I know what the frequency response is though.

^
x2. Can someone with this sub download and run a frequency sweep to see what it really does.

Also, any idea on how thick the mdf panels are? Is it braced internally?

Thank you.

From the specs it looks like the enclosure is the same as the H-100. Is that braced internally and what grade of MDF panels does it have?

This is the most retarded thing ever.




Order the sub on January 1st

Ships January 5th (perfectly fine) - Expected Shipping date, the 9th

I notice the shipping weight is 41lbs, mike assures me its 60lbs

Come 12:01am on the 9th - shipping updates to expect it on the 13th, and departs Las Vegas

Come to now, where I go back and see this:

IT FREAKING TURNED AROUND AND WENT BACK TO HIS HOUSE.

This is what concerns me about this sub. Now I find on sounddistributors.com this information, which contradicts previous information:

Specifications:
12" Active Subwoofer
Sensitivity: 85DB 1 Watt 1 Meter
Ohms: :8 Ohms
Frequency Responses: 24HZ-20KHZ ( +/- 3DB)
Wattage: 200- 650 Watts
Product Size: 18.7" x 14.3" x 17.1" (H X W X D )
Shipping Size: 21.7" x 22.7: x 17.7" (H X W X D )
Weight: 56 pounds each
Warranty: 5 year Warranty
Color: Cherry or Black

Previous (from ebay listing):
Weight: 60 pounds
Frequency Response: 24Hz - 200Hz (+/- 3dB)
Warranty: 5 Year Warranty Woofer, 2 Year Warranty Amp
Size: 17˝ H x 15˝ W x 18-1/4˝ D

Somebody put it on a digital scale and posted that it weighed 56lbs, so that answers that "concern." I'm sure someone could get out the tape measure for you too. It's quite obvious through the shipping debacle that these sellers aren't sailing the smoothest ship, so the contradicting information is most likely a mistake on their part.

Also, there was this post back on page 4 before all the shipping talk started:


Don't know if that qualifies as a professional enough frequency sweep for you guys who wanted one. The bottom line is, this is a low budget sub with a questionable seller as far as communication, shipping, and now information/specs on the sub. All that said, it has very positive reviews so you have to take a bit of a flyer and order it not knowing it's true specs and that it could take 44 days to get to you (my new scheduled delivery ). I ordered it for the price and know that no matter what it will easily dominate my Polk psw10 I currently have.

Just measured for those who are curious about the actual dimensions.

18.75" H x 14.25" W x 17" D (rounded to the nearest .25")

As for the actual weight, I haven't put mine on a digital scale but I can tell you they definitely feel heavier than the claimed shipping weight (comparing these to 40lb. bags of salt that I routinely carry down the basement steps to my water softener).

I didn't measure any frequency sweeps because I don't have the equipment or the expertise but I did a check with DVE and mine definitely were putting out audible tones @ 18Hz and they both (I have two) give more than enough punch for my setup during movies.

And for the sake of being fair to Mike Embers, I had a couple of opportunities to talk with Mike on the phone and by email and he was cordial, informative and quickly solved a couple of minor issues. I'm not saying that others didn't have problems or saying that some are over reacting but we all have our days as I'm sure Mike has had trying to get thousands of these units shipped in every direction you can imagine.

We as a buyer, are dealing with a single seller on our single (sometimes mutiple in some cases, not all) issue where as Mike (a single seller, referring to just Acoustic Sound Design) is dealing with thousands of buyers with multiple issues (shipping and damages, usually out of his control) and trying to get all these orders filled during the busiest time of year.

I'm not making excuses for Mike, I'm just saying it's probably tougher than we think. After all, we are getting a decent sub for a really good price with FREE shipping. Can you imagine if you had to ship this yourself from Las Vegas to say Florida or Maine?