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Premier Acoustic PA-120 - Page 4

post #91 of 2105
12/21/08 at 7:19pm
i have been curious to how good this sub has been for a long time and after reading this thread im very intrigued. But it seems this live.com cashback is over ? does it happen every few weeks or so.... if the price is up permanently is this sub still worth it in your opinion?
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post #92 of 2105
12/22/08 at 3:06pm
I'm also interested in this sub. In some of the reviews I saw on the H-100, the comments said that it was a bit "boomy" for music. How does the 120 do for music? I saw one mention in the thread that it was "reasonably musical", but most of the comments seem to be focused on how nice it is for home theater.

What do the owners think of it's musical performance?
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post #93 of 2105
12/22/08 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBTH View Post

I'm also interested in this sub. In some of the reviews I saw on the H-100, the comments said that it was a bit "boomy" for music. How does the 120 do for music? I saw one mention in the thread that it was "reasonably musical", but most of the comments seem to be focused on how nice it is for home theater.

What do the owners think of it's musical performance?

It's not the most musical sub I've ever auditioned (same for the H-100), but at it's price point I'm very pleased with it's musical performance. I listen to about 30% music, and although it can be "a bit boomy", that's largely recording dependent; I've found on CD's where the sub is mastered in at an appropriate volume the PA-120 integrates nicely (and this is about 95% of recordings). Even on the boomier recordings I never feel it sticks out badly, just that the bass is a bit much for the recording at certain points, and a simple small twist of the volume knob generally takes care of that in the rare instance I actually notice.
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post #94 of 2105
12/22/08 at 5:50pm
ive been following this thread a bit, and hoping cashback will come back to ebay. currently i have a velodyne vx10 as my sub, would the 120 be a night/day difference over the velodyne? i know the 120 is 200watts rms (650 peak) vs velodyne at (100 rms) (150peak). Also the 120 is a 12in woofer vs a 10 inch. i would be interested in upgrading if it was going to be a big difference in output.

system is 80/20 ht/music

thanks
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post #95 of 2105
12/22/08 at 6:10pm
at least one person I saw had been borrowing a vx-10 I think it was and felt the pa was a big step up. It does go quite a bit lower, but I thought the velodyne was supposed to be fairly "musical" so it may be better for music.
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post #96 of 2105
12/23/08 at 8:11am
Got mine last night, pristine condition in the fevered first glance I gave it (stupid CCFL's aren't very good for that either), hooked it up, watched War.

Very nice...very nice. The explosion at the car dealership towards the end was NICE and boomy, had that really good sort f mellow rumble during the first part of the explosion and when the explosion really rounded out it got NICE and low and powerful.

Very happy considering the price. And yeah I live in a townhome, thankfully on the end, because if I had anyone on the same side of me as my living room, theres no way I could use this thing.

Also, unless I'm completely retarded I gotta say that since I'm using this in conjunction with bookshelf speakers and not floorstanders for my fronts, having a sub with a little higher range than the edesign sub (can't remember the crap model number, but I bet you guys know which one I mean) is nice because it fills in more of the gaps where my mains fail to deliver.

All in all very pleased with the sub, VERY good value, and thankfully I had no problems with shipping. So... A+

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post #97 of 2105
12/23/08 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by goose4540 View Post

ive been following this thread a bit, and hoping cashback will come back to ebay. currently i have a velodyne vx10 as my sub, would the 120 be a night/day difference over the velodyne? i know the 120 is 200watts rms (650 peak) vs velodyne at (100 rms) (150peak). Also the 120 is a 12in woofer vs a 10 inch. i would be interested in upgrading if it was going to be a big difference in output.

system is 80/20 ht/music

thanks

I too have the VX-10 and been thinking of upgrading...

I like how Kanye West's song from his new album Love Lockdown sounds on the Velodyne but I fear that it's just not reaching as low as the recording it supposed to go (it was ripped cd at the 400(?) bit rate). Right now, the sub makes the man cave rattle but I also have it turned up to 85% on the volume to get that effect.

I have been insanely obsessing about my subwoofer upgraditis for a while now. Should I save up for the next tier in subs (Hsu, SVS, eD etc) or is the PA-120 going to stave off upgraditis in the mean time?
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post #98 of 2105
12/23/08 at 9:29am
i just got in on a Gateway Kas 303 deal for $199 shipped at ebay. it's hsu research speakers (same stuff as Ventriloquist VT-12) and sub (based on STF-2?)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=861774. I basically got it for the sub as I've got a pair of ELT525M's already. I was wondering if I'd made a good decision in jumping in on that deal just for the sub or if I should have shelled out the extra $30 for the PA-120. I've had my eye on the PA-120 for quiet some time now as both the h100 and vk12 are out of my price range (cash back probably won't be back for a while).
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post #99 of 2105
12/26/08 at 2:17pm
Thread Starter 
Well, got my PA-120 hooked up. First impressions were satisfactory, movie experience was good. Then I ran a frequency sweep through Avia with my PS3 and noticed the sub practically died once it hit the 40Hz mark. I'm pretty sure I turned the dynamic range control off on the PS3 (will have to double check later, as I'm at work right now), and it is off on my Yamaha 663 receiver. Has anyone else ran any frequency sweeps with this sub? How much extension did you get out of it?

As of right now, the sub is placed along my side wall (best position available in the room due to other objects), but I have moved it around the room, tried 2 separate corner positions that it could fit in, but still experienced the same thing. Since I'm 90% sure DRC is off on the PS3, what could the possible issues be? Is it the db level the calibration disc runs the sweeps at or does it appear to be something else? During movie watching it seems like it's dipping lower in frequency, but I still feel like I'm missing all the heavy 25-30Hz bass.

The sub is in a 10'x11'x8' room, so it doesn't have to move too much air. I've tried with the phase at normal and then reverse on the receiver, changed the actual phase knob from 0-180 on the sub and any combination inbetween, Running the sub gain at 6 (as recommended), with the Yamaha calibration putting it at -0.5db (changed it to +2.5db) and still no dice. Any help would be appreciated.
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post #100 of 2105
12/28/08 at 7:36am
Lemonade...

Can't answer the 40hz questions since I haven't run any frequency sweeps with my sub (if you tell me how I will).

I will say this, it appears the sub needs some sort of burn-in period. This is purely conjecture on my part but it sounds like mine has gotten better with time. Bass seems to come alive much more then when I first got it (2 weeks, 20 movies). Especially the super-lows.

PS - I am loving this sub!! I've only had a few chances to really crank it but when I can

Big thanks to those early in this thread with a positive experiences with seller and product that lead me to take the plunge :O)
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post #101 of 2105
12/28/08 at 8:59am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the response jj.pod. I was thinking of that earlier as well, since I've only used it for about 10-15 hours so far, maybe the driver hasn't had enough time to break in. I have noticed a lack of excursion on the sub at this time so that may be it, or it could be that there's no excursion because of lack of deep bass. I went back and checked the DRC setting on my PS3 and it is indeed off.

I watched Iron Man last night and definitely noticed some deeper bass than what is past the 40Hz mark in the calibration disc. The Jericho missile test was fantastic, strong low bass and you could feel the pressurization near the sub. I suppose I'll keep watching more movies and see if it responds better over time.
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post #102 of 2105
12/28/08 at 9:31am


Sorry everyone, I promised to post back sooner but it has been a busy Holiday.

I finally had a chance to hook up both of my Premier Acoustic PA-120 Subs. The wife really got a kick out of making me wait until Christmas morning but I gotta tell you, they were worth the wait!

These are replacing two Infinity Primus PS-8s and the difference is amazing. I have them connected to an Onkyo TX-SR705 from the "Sub Out" via a "Y" connector using a couple of Digital Coax cables from Monoprice.

I've only watched a couple of movies (Wanted and Casino Royale) both on Blu-Ray played on a Panasonic DMP-BD35K and the bass is incredible. I really didn't realize what I was missing. My old subs only went down to ~35Hz but still did a decent job for what I paid for them (got them really cheap at Circuit City when they were clearing out the Infinity Primus line). I can really feel the bass now. I went back and replayed a few scenes from Transformers (Ironside flip) and the Iron Man trailer and the bass actually "thumps" me. I'm not cranking up the volume anymore than where the wife and I normally watch movies and I haven't even gone back and re-calibrated yet using the Audyssey calibration. I did however set all of my speakers to "80Hz THX" instead of "Full Range" to take some of the load off of the mains, center and surround speakers (Infinity Primus 360 mains, PC350 center and 250 surrounds). Everything sounds so much better with more detailed separation. I listened to some music and although my listening is probably only about 5% music and the rest divided between Movies and TV (sports, sitcoms, news, etc.) these subs did a more than adequate job musically, deep tight bass but not boomy.

I am by no stretch of the imagination an audiophile or videophile and I know there are better subs out there but for what my wife paid for these (bought these from Mike at Acoustic Sound Design on ebay day after Thanksgiving using 30% Cashback from Live.com and Free shipping!) I don't think you can beat them for the money even without the discount.

Hope to hear from others and their impressions.

Happy New Year!
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post #103 of 2105
12/29/08 at 6:18pm
Has anyone done actual measurements on this sub? I'm currently deciding between this sub, the Dayton HSU10, and the vk12. Possibly look into the real HSU's also.

I noticed from looking in various threads that some people are referring this to the 2009 replacement for the H-100 (most likely because of the misleading Ebay auction title that everyone is getting this from). According to my little research, the PA120 is Premier Acoustics as many of you wrote, but Premier Acoustics is in no way affiliated with BIC America AFAIK. The Ebay auctions are a little shady the way it is titled, very misleading I think. The VK12, on the other hand, is the new replacement for the H-100.

It seems like a good sub at a good price nevertheless.
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post #104 of 2105
12/29/08 at 7:28pm
Thread Starter 
Just wanted to report back about my earlier issues with the PA-120, where I was getting serious drop-off around the 40Hz mark. It appears the issue was with the AVIA disc I was using.

I thought it may have been temporarily enabling the DRC on the PS3, so I played it in the 360 and noticed the same issue. After this, I downloaded new test tones and burned them onto a disc. With the new test tones, I found the PA-120 in my room was able to go down to 23Hz while maintaining more than decent SPL (IMO, as I do not have an SPL meter), and completely losing it at 21Hz. I figured it was doing it's job based on the movie experiences I had, but the AVIA disc worried me. Needless to say, I'm not worried anymore.
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post #105 of 2105
12/30/08 at 6:39am
Quote:


Has anyone done actual measurements on this sub? I'm currently deciding between this sub, the Dayton HSU10, and the vk12. Possibly look into the real HSU's also.

As posted earlier in this thread, your options are similar to what I was considering. I decided to pony up the extra cash for the VTF-1, and am very pleased. I decided to go this route based on 2 factors: 1) Customer service (see earlier post), and 2) my wife is just starting med school, so it will be at least 8 years before I can consider a replacement - I'm pretty sure the HSU will keep the upgrade bug from biting for at least that long since I can't really run it at anything over ~40% in extension mode without overpowering the other speakers/room.

It sounds like this PA-120 is a great value for the money, and I may have been able to save myself a couple hundred bucks, but I think I would have wondered what I might have been missing by not going a little higher-end. With the VTF-1, there is no second-guessing, no wondering what I'm missing, no further research; just happy listening and peace of mind that I made a good purchase.
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post #106 of 2105
12/30/08 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioLefty View Post



Sorry everyone, I promised to post back sooner but it has been a busy Holiday.

I finally had a chance to hook up both of my Premier Acoustic PA-120 Subs. The wife really got a kick out of making me wait until Christmas morning but I gotta tell you, they were worth the wait!

These are replacing two Infinity Primus PS-8s and the difference is amazing. I have them connected to an Onkyo TX-SR705 from the "Sub Out" via a "Y" connector using a couple of Digital Coax cables from Monoprice.

I've only watched a couple of movies (Wanted and Casino Royale) both on Blu-Ray played on a Panasonic DMP-BD35K and the bass is incredible. I really didn't realize what I was missing. My old subs only went down to ~35Hz but still did a decent job for what I paid for them (got them really cheap at Circuit City when they were clearing out the Infinity Primus line). I can really feel the bass now. I went back and replayed a few scenes from Transformers (Ironside flip) and the Iron Man trailer and the bass actually "thumps" me. I'm not cranking up the volume anymore than where the wife and I normally watch movies and I haven't even gone back and re-calibrated yet using the Audyssey calibration. I did however set all of my speakers to "80Hz THX" instead of "Full Range" to take some of the load off of the mains, center and surround speakers (Infinity Primus 360 mains, PC350 center and 250 surrounds). Everything sounds so much better with more detailed separation. I listened to some music and although my listening is probably only about 5% music and the rest divided between Movies and TV (sports, sitcoms, news, etc.) these subs did a more than adequate job musically, deep tight bass but not boomy.

I am by no stretch of the imagination an audiophile or videophile and I know there are better subs out there but for what my wife paid for these (bought these from Mike at Acoustic Sound Design on ebay day after Thanksgiving using 30% Cashback from Live.com and Free shipping!) I don't think you can beat them for the money even without the discount.

Hope to hear from others and their impressions.

Happy New Year!

Ohio, looks great...I'm waiting for my second one to arrive in a couple of weeks also
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post #107 of 2105
1/2/09 at 12:38am
hey guys, so just ordered one of these, have the Harmon Kardon avr 347 receiver. Still looking for a good deal on some tower speakers.

quick question (i'm a total idiot when it comes to this stuff), this cable:

_http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=2680&seq=1&format=2

someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, that will be all i need? i noticed on the sub i see only a red/white in/out... so where would i connect that cable? or am I completely blind and there is another input on the sub I'm not seeing? Thanks
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post #108 of 2105
1/2/09 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahman10 View Post

hey guys, so just ordered one of these, have the Harmon Kardon avr 347 receiver. Still looking for a good deal on some tower speakers.

quick question (i'm a total idiot when it comes to this stuff), this cable:

_http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=2680&seq=1&format=2

someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, that will be all i need? i noticed on the sub i see only a red/white in/out... so where would i connect that cable? or am I completely blind and there is another input on the sub I'm not seeing? Thanks

That's the cable you need...same one I got. There is an input on the sub...hard to see from pics but it's there and the other end goes into your HK
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post #109 of 2105
1/2/09 at 6:51am
mahman10,

Connect one end of your cable to your receiver "Sub Out" and the other end to "White In" on the back of the PA-120.

That's the way I have mine connected using the exact same cable. Don't confuse the "Red" and "White" with the typical "Left" and "Right" analog stereo connections. The subwoofer signal is mono and only needs to be connected to the "White In" on this particular sub. The "Red Out" can be used to series another sub. In my case, I prefer to use a "Y" adapter from my "Sub Out" on my AVR and then use two single cables to each of my PA-120s "White In".

Prior to powering up your new PA-120, set the volume knob to "6", phase to "0" (if it is facing the same direction as your mains) and the crossover to the highest setting (if you are setting the crossovers via the receiver, if not set it to 80Hz). Depending on how you want to set your sub to power up, there is a switch to either leave it "On" all the time, "Auto" to come on when it receives a signal and shut off after a set period of time when no signal is present and "Off". This is just a starting point since I know nothing of your setup but the manual recommends basically the same settings.

One last tip which is also in the manual but you will miss if you don't read it first before unpacking. Open the top of the box, fold the flaps back and gently turn (I should say roll, this thing is heavy) the box upside down and lift the box off of the sub. Untape the plastic bag and push it down toward the floor. Turn the sub back over and set it back on it's bottom and lift the packing material off of the top of the sub.

I don't know what you have now as far as a sub but I think you are really going to like the PA-120. I admit that I'm no Audiophile but I'm pretty impressed with both of mine.

Good luck...
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post #110 of 2105
1/2/09 at 11:37am
thanks guys for the help

old sub is a hand me down from a kenwood HITB, so.. ya.. and the L/R speakers are also hand me down bose.. but just moved into new place so figured i'd splurge what i could on some good speakers.

have a polk audio center speaker i bought off recommendation from this site (though this was years ago), and now hoping fry's will have a sale on the infinity primus' again, or if i could find some polk floorstanding speakers for a good price (as i'm in total homeowner debt now) to match the center.

thanks again guys!
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post #111 of 2105
1/4/09 at 3:03pm
Just ordered one of these subs and waiting for the shipment. will post some results of what i find when it comes in. If its turns out to be a great sub I might get another one. I have a mirage s10 that im able to compare it.
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post #112 of 2105
1/4/09 at 8:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayzfelon View Post

Just ordered one of these subs and waiting for the shipment. will post some results of what i find when it comes in. If its turns out to be a great sub I might get another one. I have a mirage s10 that im able to compare it.

Good luck. Hope you get yours, I ordered mine on Dec. 3rd and it still hasn't shipped. Several emails to Mike, limited responses. Unfortunately I only have so much time to file a dispute with Paypal before Im powerless, so I'll probably have to bail out if it doesn't ship in the next few days.

Not trying to be a whiner or threadcrap. Just an FYI to those thinking about ordering one of these, because this seller's customer service has been discussed as questionable throughout the thread. Sucks because I REALLY want to get this subwoofer, seems like a great bang for your buck deal.
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post #113 of 2105
1/4/09 at 9:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcSparks View Post

Good luck. Hope you get yours, I ordered mine on Dec. 3rd and it still hasn't shipped. Several emails to Mike, limited responses. Unfortunately I only have so much time to file a dispute with Paypal before Im powerless, so I'll probably have to bail out if it doesn't ship in the next few days.

Not trying to be a whiner or threadcrap. Just an FYI to those thinking about ordering one of these, because this seller's customer service has been discussed as questionable throughout the thread. Sucks because I REALLY want to get this subwoofer, seems like a great bang for your buck deal.

Thats strange. I did a preorder and will ship on jan 5th as stated on ebay.I emailed him if he provides tracking numbers and he said he does. I just got an email from him yesterday and he already provided the tracking number but mentioned that it wont ship til monday the 5th.
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post #114 of 2105
1/5/09 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayzfelon View Post

Thats strange. I did a preorder and will ship on jan 5th as stated on ebay.I emailed him if he provides tracking numbers and he said he does. I just got an email from him yesterday and he already provided the tracking number but mentioned that it wont ship til monday the 5th.

Oh yeah, I got a UPS tracking # on Dec. 5th and it has just been sitting in Billing Information Received status since then. Mine was a preorder as well, so I did know I was going to have to wait a little, but I was told Dec. 19th they would be back in stock.

I emailed him again last night before I posted and got a response this morning saying it would go out today or tomorrow, but I was told the same thing last week...
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post #115 of 2105
1/5/09 at 7:27am
does anyone have an SPL reading/graph for this subwoofer?

yes, I am well aware that it will behave/perform different for each room but since my sub will be in my dedicated theater room of 20x8x10 with 1 door that will always be closed (for the most part) I figure it would be somewhat similar to computer estimates etc.
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post #116 of 2105
1/5/09 at 8:21am
Are we all ordering this from the same people? There are two different sellers selling these on ebay, Sound Distributor, and Accoustic Sound Design. I recall Sound Distributor having the preorder shipping on the 5th, but I ordered mine from accoustic sound design and it said instock(I ordered the 1st). Which company are we having the shipping problems with?
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post #117 of 2105
1/5/09 at 8:28am
Well, hopefully nevermind. I just recieved my tracking email from UPS, and it has a delivery date of Friday the 8th. So I guess I'm waiting till Friday.
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post #118 of 2105
1/5/09 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by D1-2005 View Post

Are we all ordering this from the same people? There are two different sellers selling these on ebay, Sound Distributor, and Accoustic Sound Design. I recall Sound Distributor having the preorder shipping on the 5th, but I ordered mine from accoustic sound design and it said instock(I ordered the 1st). Which company are we having the shipping problems with?

I believe they are both the same person with 2 different store fronts correct if I'm wrong anyone.

Not really saying everyone is having shipping problems. I know earlier in the thread some people have said the guy is really short with you and difficult to work with. There also has been some mistakes where people have gotten the wrong color or even a completely different model. Also some have been slightly damaged.

I tend to believe in the system and figure odds are I/you will have a good experience. Bottom line is it sounds like an amazing sub for the price, so I took my chances on a subpar transaction to get a great deal. If this thing comes this week in one piece and works, I'll still be a happy camper.
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post #119 of 2105
1/5/09 at 8:51am
I ordered from sound distributor and just got another email stating that ups has received billing info and scheduled delivery is on the 7th.
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post #120 of 2105
1/5/09 at 1:55pm
Hey, I'm one of those guys who says he's short on the phone but he did deliver my PA120 to me in a week in mid-november. Barring UPS dropping the thing all over thier world...you'll be happy with it. He told me that he had blown out the PA120's and the BIC VK12's and was working hard to get more in from the factory (China) during December.

Still with that said, I'll buy another one from him next week in black and hope it's not backordered.

I think it's a steal for the price
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