Samsung LNxxA630 AMP-Stuck-on bug found...

All a630 owners please read...

This is a copy-paste from my cnet samsung forum post that I made (I registered there just to post this) because apparantly some Samsung employees view and moderate that forum. I'm really hoping for a firmware update to resolve this issue, and if any other a630 owners could post here regarding their finds with this, all the better...

...I have linked my thread on the cnet forum at the bottom of this post, if you would like to add your comments and finds there, as well. It may help get the ball rolling.

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I hope the sammy guys that moderate this forum read this and get a firmware update rolling...I registered here just to post this because I saw that Samsung employees view and moderate this board.

I use my Samsung LN46A630 as a secondary computer monitor to my Acer 24" widescreen LCD. To my dismay, I have found a bug that I believe to be the same one associated with the 650 series (which has been fixed via firmware update). Upon turning the TV on, while viewing the desktop and moving the mouse around, I noticed that the mouse icon shows white pixels around it, as it does when AMP is set to ON. I have AMP set to OFF on all inputs. I tested this further by scrolling some text, moving around windows, etc. and it appears that AMP is stuck ON even when set to OFF, as moving text and objects are glitchy. The only workaround I have found to fix this issue is turning AMP on then off again, which clears up this motion issue. Of course, doing this for every input that I want to use every time I turn the set off then on again, is a big pain in the arse...but required to have a glitch-free viewing experience whilst using it as a monitor (I'm sure it's stuck on while playing xbox, ps3, etc. as well, but obviously I cannot test it like I can with the PC hooked up).

I believe this issue to be firmware-related just like the a650 issue was, and should be fixable. I have a sammy tech coming out to look at it after the thanksgiving holidays (dec. 02), but I am afraid he will not be able to cure the issue save completely disabling AMP through the service menu, if this is even possible.

I have been completely happy with this set except for the AMP stuck bug. Can the 630 owners get a firmware update to resolve this bug as well, please? It makes using the set as a monitor unacceptable until you enable/disable AMP after booting the TV. Once enabled and disabled again, the issue is gone and the motion is glitch-free...until you turn the set off and turn it back on again!

Please, PLEASE, Samsung...give us a630 owners a firmware update to un-stick AMP when its set to OFF!

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CNET Samsung forum thread link: ht tp://forums.cnet.com/5208-13973_102-0.html?forumID=146&threadID=317893&messageID=2915739
(copy/paste this without the space in the http part, I had to do this as this was my first post and the system would not allow me to post links yet).

After further testing, it seems this bug is only occuring when using the TV as a PC monitor. I tested it with my xbox 360 via HDMI - I booted a game (G.R.A.W.), loaded a level, and panned the camera. No glitching, AMP appears to be OFF and remain OFF. I tested this by turning the set off (keeping the game on), and turning the set back on, and panning again. No difference - AMP seems to remain off (correctly saved) after rebooting the TV while keeping the xbox on. Strange.

It's worth mentioning that my xbox 360 is connected via HDMI2/DVI (named 'GAME'). My computer is connected via HDMI1 (named 'PC'). Although, I did connect the PC to HDMI2/DVI, as well as HDMI3. The AMP-stuck-on issue is prevalent with the PC regardless of which HDMI port it is connected to on the TV...

Strange indeed. At least, I do not need to enable and disable AMP every time I play xbox, but I still am having to do it for the PC, regardless of which HDMI port is used.

Alright, here's the crappy part. I returned this TV some months back, so I can't really help you with anything regarding it anymore :| I know it's frustrating to have to change AMP modes every time you switch to PC, but in hindsight of me returning it...I wish I hadn't. It was the nicest LCD I owned (I had many) and I should have sucked it up and just dealt with the bug until (if ever) Samsung releases a firmware update. As far as letting Samsung know of the issue, I am not sure the best way to go about that. Unless there is enough people out there experiencing this particular issue (sadly, I doubt that many people use this TV as a monitor compared to just using it as a TV screen), Samsung will probably never do anything about it. I really wish they would put a little more time and effort into testing and quality control considering the price of these sets. This goes for most flat panel TV makers. Sony makes the most input-lag free set, but all their sets suffer from TERRIBLE backlight bleed. Great for PC gaming and XBOX etc., but the bleeding was so bad I couldn't stand it anymore.

Point that I'm trying to make: These companies need to do more testing and have stricter quality control when they sell these TVs for the high prices they do. I won't even get into the issue with Samsung putting different panels (some way better than others) into the same model line TVs. I've only experienced that with the a530, but still - that's simply unacceptable.

Okay, I was doing some more research and I think you should try this. Plug the PC into the HDMI2/DVI port on tv, and rename this connection to "PC" in the tv. This is important. I can't seem to remember if I actually renamed the HDMI2/DVI port to "PC". By the way, this is also the way you get an almost completely input-lag free connection (you'll feel it in the responsiveness of your mouse, or controller if you have XBOX, etc. This is due to the TV no longer doing additional image processing.). You must use the HDMI2/DVI port, and you must rename the connection the "PC" otherwise this won't work.

Now see if AMP is stuck on, because supposedly if you do this AMP is forced off and cannot be changed. As a side note, you must also feed the tv only a 1920x1080 signal, otherwise the tv returns to it's "add image processing and lag" mode, even if named to "PC". This may or may not influence the way AMP behaves, though.

Please try these steps and report back to this thread...if this works I would heavily consider getting another a630...!

Big oops from my previous post, lol. I thought the side port was the HDMI2/DVI port. That was my mistake and I edited that out of my post. As far as your settings greying out, that's supposed to happen in this particular mode. Even those these settings appear to have a value for each and are un-configurable, rest assured the TV is no longer doing any image enhancement processing. Now what you see on your TV should be exactly what you see on your monitor. You are actually viewing the source as the director/computer/xbox/cable box (whatever you plugged in to HDMI2/DVI) intended, without any of the samsung hardware doing extraneous processing to the image to "make it look better." Unfortunately, you won't be able to change any more options than is available to you now. But rest assured what you are seeing now on your screen is the closest representation to the source you are viewing. There is no sharpness, edge enhancement, color altering, or other processing effects taking place to the picture in this mode. This is what you want for using the TV as a computer monitor, an HTPC screen, and I would definitely prefer this setting for any and all gaming as well (note: most PS3 games will not work on this mode due to lack of an internal 1080p scaler in the console - only games which can run natively in 1080p will pass along the compatibale signal. XBOX 360 has an internal 1080p scaler and can scale all games to the compatible 1920x1080x60hz signal, so no problems). But to do that, since there is only the one HDMI2/DVI port with PC mode, one would have to use an HDMI switcher connected to this port. Then all things connected to this switch could use PC mode if they fed the TV the 1920x1080x60hz signal. This is how I would connect my XBOX 360 and PC to the single PC-mode enabled port. That way no swapping cables. But I'm rambing...

As far as 24hz mode/other resolutions allowing you to change all the settings (and in that respect, anything outside of 1920x1080x60hz using the HDMI2/DVI + PC rename trick will), the TV will sense that you are no longer using the native resolution (or no longer using 60hz - either one will trigger) and will actually switch back out of PC mode. I guess Samsung believes all PC Mode users are going to/should feed the TV a 60hz signal, and they made it so any other resolution/frequency will disable PC mode. I believe you should see a quick "black screen" when it switches like this. Basically, to use the PC mode trick, you must always feed the TV a 1920x1080x60hz signal. Otherwise, it reverts back to it's "normal" state of doing image enhancement processing by default, which in turn allows you to configure these enhancements.

Here's some more detailed info about it, pulled from the Samsung LNxxA650 Gamer's (Input Lag) Thread. It is a great thread and a HIGHLY suggest you read through it, as it covers exactly what you ask about:

I'd also like to ask, how are you "switching" the TV to 24hz mode? Are you using a Blu-Ray player? You say the ghosting in "24hz mode" is gone, but PC mode is actually disabled when not sending a 60hz signal to the TV. So how would your 24hz mode be affected? I'm curious. There should have been no ghosting while viewing 24hz content (with AMP off) regardless, and this trick shouldn't have affected any 24hz content in any way since it only works on a 1920x1080x60hz signal. Also, you say IQ (I take it you meant PQ for picture quality?) increased in 24hz mode as well, but this contradicts the fact that PC mode doesn't work in anything outside 60hz even if its a 1080p signal.

By the way, not being able to change those particular settings (the ones you mentioned were greyed out) isn't necessarily a bad thing. Really, all they do is add artifacts and artificial enhancement to the picture. If you want to see what the picture really looks like - how it was intended to look - then you need to use the PC Mode trick. This way, you are seeing the truest digital picture relative to the source that you can. The options that are greyed out are options that add artifacting and anomalies, something an actual monitor wouldn't need to provide. But to some people, these options "enhance" TV and movies to their eye, and thus LCD TV makers include these options in HDTVs. Monitors are most often used for word processing, art, design, and general work related activites - TV and movie watching (and arguably gaming) takes a backseat to these things in the eyes of LCD Monitor makers, thus LCD monitors more often then not, lack the options at all for these "tweaks." When you think of it this way, it will start becoming clear that you don't need these tweaks, because they only serve to alter the original image. So by the TV disallowing you to alter these image "enhancing" (I say that sarcastically) settings, you're TV is now behaving just like a monitor.

That said, some people don't like the mode because they are too used to the other modes which over-saturate colors, pump the brightness, gamma, and backlighting; while adding artificial sharpness and introducing artifacts. But using the HDMI2/DVI + PC Mode trick, really, is as good as it's going to get (digitally speaking), while staying true to the source.

No problem. I too have a HTPC but I don't really run any special software. I use media player classic with CoreAVC and ac3 filter. Sound goes to the reciever via spdif optical out from my sound cards external box (I have the Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro that has an external box with a ton of input/output types which I love). This gives me true Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS sound from Blu-Ray rips. I have an ATI Radeon HD 4870 outputting at 60hz through the included DVI-D to HDMI adapter.

I don't think the software actually CHANGES the refresh rate of the tv (most likely it changes the computers output signal to 24hz)...I am fairly sure that the TV is locked at 120hz, and when viewing 24hz material such as Blu-Ray, the TV performs 5:5 pulldown (this is how the 120hz TV's show 24hz/fps material without judder).

Here's another reason why I don't think the refresh rate of the TV would/is changing: I would think if that if (the TV) was only outputting 24hz, viewing would be a flicker fest, because the screen would only be refreshing 24 times per second. The TV instead takes the 24hz signal and performs 5:5 pulldown @ 120hz.

Here is what I think is really happening, more in-depth. The computer may indeed be sending the signal to the TV at 24hz (which the TV accepts just fine) using the software, however actual output is still displayed at 120hz on the TV. 24hz goes into 120hz 5 times, and thus the TV performs 5:5 pulldown. This is how all 120hz TV's show Blu-Ray material without judder (as opposed to 3:2 pulldown from a 60hz set which will show judder). Now, the TV may DISPLAY "24hz" in the info screen when you watch a Blu-Ray (just like it will show "60hz" in PC mode), but I'm pretty certain that means that the source signal is 24hz (and likewise will display "60hz" when using the computer normally). The TV will output at 120hz regardless of the source signals frequency. This also means that even though you are feeding the TV a 1920x1080x60hz signal while using it in PC mode, the TV itself it still outputting at 120hz.

Remember, when you feed the TV anything besides 1080p @ 60hz, your picture settings should return (PC mode disables), giving you the option to tweak the picture. I would assume that once you tweak the picture settings to your desire on this HDMI port, using anything besides a 1920x1080x60hz signal, then when you watch a Blu-Ray rip/movie, your tweaked settings should return. So basically, tune this HDMI to your liking for Blu-Ray movies, then when you actually run a Blu-Ray/rip, PC mode will disable and your settings are now active again. So when you fire up that Blu-Ray, your movie settings come back because they are unlocked again, and when you go back to the desktop, it's going to lock you out of the picture settings again. I would also think that it would save your settings once you set them, even when it switches back and forth to PC mode, but please let me know if this is not the case (or even if it is).

Ah, I thought as much Good to hear that it saves your settings when it pops out of PC mode. So at least movies and things will retain your custom settings. IMHO I don't think it would be worth the cost to get it calibrated in PC mode unless you are unhappy with the current picture while using it as a monitor (outside of movies, since it lets you tweak that due to 24hz) or for a game console using this port/trick, but that is definitely a personal choice. Myself, I would be satisfied knowing it looks as close to the source as possible, but you may very well want to "tweak" it a little to better suit your personal viewing style. Perhaps you should try adjusting the color options via your drivers? This will still reflect on your TV while in PC mode. However, I am unsure as to how this would affect movies (you may end up with driver side tweaks and tv tweaks - depends on if the movie player outputs the video with the driver tweaks or not). Try different combinations of driver side tweaks and TV tweaks for 24hz movies. You may find a balance. Perhaps you may even discover that if you do driver side tweaks, you no longer need the TV tweaks at all...then your desktop and movies will be calibrated via your drivers. On the flip side, if the video player outputs the video without the driver tweaks, then your TV settings should remain sufficient but your desktop will be calibrated to your liking. It appears to be win-win either way, but hey - I've been wrong before.

I'm not sure if anyone has gotten a calibration regarding this particular mode, but I suggest you stop off at this thread and ask. Same link I posted before. As you get closer to the end many people are using HDMI2/DVI + PC mode, and I think that would be a better place to find your answer regarding calibration.

Try the driver tweaking and TV tweaking combinations, and let me know what you find! I'd start by disabling all the TV tweaks and just going through the driver.

As a side note, I am going to try to pick up an LN40A630 today. So I will continuously check this thread and report my personal findings as well.

I'm glad you were able to find some settings that worked for you in PC Mode. Kinda sucks about the refresh rate change feature being glitchy, but it is good to at least be able to test the TV with it, and get a feel for how it will be when it's working fully.

So how did you come up with your new settings for PC Mode? Did you do driver side adjustments or TV adjustments, or both? Mind if I ask what settings you are using now, what you changed, etc.?

You will get 120hz on the TV whether you want it or not. The TVs refresh rate is locked at 120hz. The input source may output a different frequency to the TV (60hz from the PC, 24hz from Blu-Ray players, etc.), but the TV will do the appropriate pull-down method to display the source at 120hz.


This is interesting, if not a little disconcerting. However, are you sure you were still in PC mode when you noticed this? Remember if you are not outputting 1920x1080x60hz, it will boot you out of PC Mode (but the TV doesn't tell you and it will still say "PC"). I picked up a 40" a630 last week, and although I've been sick since then, I've watched lots of downloaded TV episodes through my PC and done some AMP tests - I haven't seen anything so far to lead me to believe AMP is on. Everything seems to be operating as it should under PC mode.

Hmm, I have been using my 40a630 for some weeks now without any sign of the AMP bug with PC mode...I don't understand how it could just come back like that on your set if it was working fine before, unless you somehow changed something...not that I'm accusing you of doing so, lol, it is a bug to begin with but PC mode has been a great workaround for me. I DO recall however, that I was fiddling with some settings (not in the service menu - never touched that), switched over to PC and found that AMP was on in PC mode (I may have been in PC mode to begin with when I was messing with stuff, I can't remember). I freaked out for a second, made sure PC mode was still active (it was, and AMP was still grayed out), and rebooted the TV. Since then, no sign of AMP (it's easy to see for me since the TV is right next to my HTPC and i set within about 4 feet of it when I'm at my desk). You may want to try reverting all your settings to default, i.e. out-of-the box settings, and see if perhaps something caused it to start glitching. Hell, may as well if you plan on sending it back anyways. I'm pretty certain that something I changed in the menu caused my glitch to happen. Let me know what you find...

edit: I was also fiddling with resolution and refresh rates via my HTPC and menu adjustments in the TV as well, which could have caused AMP to come back on, even though PC mode was active. I know I tried outputting 120hz from my video card to the TV via the ATI drivers (didn't really work - created black bars all around the desktop, and the TV still read 60hz as the input frequency).

edit2: changing resolution and refresh rates via my HTPC does indeed re-introduce the AMP bug in PC mode - sometimes. I'm not sure why it sometimes does and sometimes it doesn't. However, if I'm changing resolutions and refresh rates, and come back to 1920x1080x60hz...if AMP comes on, all I have to do is power down the set and power it back up. Then it's gone...and it doesn't come back until I mess with refresh rates and resolutions again. Even then, it doesn't always glitch. But seeing as how I leave it in 1080p at 60hz all the time anyways, I never have issues. I was only experimenting with other res's and frequencies when AMP came back, and a quick reboot of the TV solved that problem.

I haven't personally used any Samsung LCD TV over the a630 model, so I can't confirm any of these issues on these other sets. I know the the 650 has had numerous firmware updates, and the way AMP works is changed in these updates. The a630 has never received a firmware update, but using PC mode at the native resolution at 60hz results in no problems for me with AMP. It only seems to "mysteriously come back on" if I'm changing resolution and frequency via my HTPC, and even then it only sometimes does. If it does, I reboot the TV and it's gone for good (or until I start messing with res and frequency again). I have to reboot the TV because AMP is grayed out as off in PC mode, so there is no other solution than to cycle the TV on/off.

However, the TV should be left in 1920x1080x60hz anyways via your display drivers for PC use, and using this res and frequency does not introduce any AMP effects for me (remember you must use HDMI2/DVI and rename the input to PC).

It should also be noted that I'm using my a630 as a secondary monitor for my HTPC and is set to "extended desktop."

As far as the AMP stuttering goes...are you using a PC hooked up to the TV when you experience it? A side-effect of AMP will be noticeable glitching on moving text, the mouse, moving windows, watching movies, and basically any motion at all. This is because AMP is trying to "guess" where your mouse is going, where that window is being moved to, where the text will end up, etc. This is simply a result of using AMP, and these kind of glitches aren't because AMP is faulty - it's just the side effect of it guessing what's about to happen, and it inserting interpolated frames in between the real frames. If you are experiencing something else, then perhaps there is actual problems with the implementation of AMP on your set. It's hard for me to know. These side-effects are also going to show in regular TV and movie watching as well, and will get worse the higher the AMP setting. "Triple Ball Effect" or "TBE" is a common term used to describe the effect of using AMP while watching football - when watching the football in motion through the air, AMP often renders a football in front and behind the real one. Panning around in a first person shooter (for example: Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter on XBOX 360) while using AMP will render 3 crosshairs on the screen - same as the TBE. Needless to say this is the primary reason I never use AMP at all. Having it on Low is somewhat acceptable for normal TV viewing, but I only wanted the 120hz refresh on this set for accurate pull down for blu-ray movies. 120hz and AMP are two seperate things. AMP is used to insert interpolated frames to show content at 120fps, because matching the frame rate with the display frequency is how you eliminate most motion blur caused by telecine judder. When using a Blu-Ray player @ 24hz, the TV performs 5:5 pulldown (24 goes into 120 an even 5 times), thereby eliminating the judder even with a lower frequency source. 60hz sets will do 3:2 pulldown because 24 doesn't go into 60 evenly, thus you will always see judder on TV and movie scenes that do a slow pan, etc.

And now for a little fun. Since I'm at home today being bored, I thought I'd share a couple pictures of what my setup looks like. I plan on mounting the TV to the entertainment center (it has a flat panel mounting spine), but only after my return policy has ended. My room has a huge window directly to the left of my bed, and I can't even say how much better matte screens are compared to when I had a Plasma. I have blackout curtains for serious TV and movie watching, but have found that I rarely need to close them now.

Lol, it's an empty bottle of Vodka actually. Imported from Holland by this company.

I updated my drivers today to the latest (9.2 + CCC suite) and I have a question for you, jacc. There is an option now called "Enable ITC processing." I am wondering if you have these new drivers, and if this is checked when experiencing the AMP bug? Supposedly, from what I gather (and I may be incorrect), this mode allows the display device (in our case, the TV), to handle the image processing instead of our video card. I may be oversimplifying. But in any case, I am wondering if having that option enabled has some effect on what the TV is doing and if it is processing the image more...

Excerpt from the ATI Help file regarding ITC:

ITC processing is a feature that enables display processors to use the appropriate pixel data processing algorithms based on specific content type to ensure video quality.

With ITC processing, the graphics driver enables the display to use its own video quality processing algorithms for movies played in full-screen mode on HDMI™ displays.

Note: This feature is available only for DTVs connected with HDMI cables and may not be available for all systems.
From the Graphics Settings tree, expand DTV.
Click Attributes.
Select or clear Enable ITC Processing as appropriate.
Select—Enables ITC processing for HDMI displays that are capable of the feature. When movies are played in full-screen mode, the display’s processors can be used to ensure video quality.
Clear—Disables ITC processing. Video quality is ensured by the graphics driver for all types of contents displayed.

Did you notice any amp-effects outside of movies/video content played from the PC? like messing around on the desktop? Sometimes I see what almost looks like amp on low but it's not - it's only on videos. I can see it usually on video with low motion, but I think that's an effect of the 120hz and how it converts up to 120hz from 60hz. You're already getting judder from 24fps @ 60hz, there may be more repeated frames introduced going from 60hz -> 120hz. I've only noticed it on low motion scenes (looks smoother IMO), but NEVER on the desktop or doing anything outside of watching movies etc.

I fear the 650 is going to be more of the same, but I can't be sure. The a630 is almost identical besides the screen coating and bezel. Well that and there's some firmware updates for the 650. Lol

Jacc, have you recieved the 650 yet? If so, what's the word?