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Netflix streaming quality - Page 108

post #3211 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

That's good to know.

The 2011 has a 'very' limited custom mode in addition to Vivid, Standard, Game, Cinema but doesn't make either calibrated or THX settings available . Do the 1012 and 2013 have full picture settings available in the custom mode with internal apps - or just some very limited high level adjustments?
It has the same options as Custom in any HDMI mode.
post #3212 of 5445
I do get 5.1 when available.

I have a Sharp TV. Apparently with my set the optical offers 5.1 on OTA channels and the built in apps.

The set also has ARC, but I have not had a need to use that.
post #3213 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post

...I read win 8 IE11 will support a Netflix HTML5 super HD stream and that final build of win 7 IE 11 will not and for now will continue with Silverlight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Where did you read that?



can't remember I will see if I can find it though .

here is the usual Netflix Win 8.1 stuff I still haven't found the reference to win 7 IE 11 final yet.
Quote:
With the release of Windows 8.1 Preview, Netflix now supports streaming over HTML5 instead of Microsoft’s proprietary Silverlight plug-in. The caveat is that only Internet Explorer 11, which is bundled with Windows 8.1, supports the necessary HTML5 extensions; if you’re a Firefox or Chrome user, you’ll continue to use the Silverlight plug-in. In our initial testing, the switch to HTML5 sees a massive reduction in CPU usage — about one third of Silverlight’s CPU usage

read more:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/159960-netflix-switches-from-silverlight-to-html5-in-windows-8-1-reduces-cpu-usage-dramatically

Edited by tubetwister - 10/21/13 at 5:02pm
post #3214 of 5445
A couple weeks back I saw an option on Netflix on my Windows 7 machine for Silverlight or HTML5. That was with the Firefox browser. With HTML5 they can use VP8 and not pay royalties. biggrin.gif
post #3215 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

A couple weeks back I saw an option on Netflix on my Windows 7 machine for Silverlight or HTML5. That was with the Firefox browser. With HTML5 they can use VP8 and not pay royalties. biggrin.gif

The option is there on any browser but the HTML5/Webkit extensions required by the Netflix HTML5 player is currently only available in IE 11 on Windows 8.1. Others browsers will get those extensions at some point; until then you'll still get the Silverlight player in Firefox and Chrome (and presumably Safari, etc).
post #3216 of 5445
Crummy IE 11 is required with Windows 8.1. Big deal. Windows 7 users are still stuck with the bloated Silverlight 720p only version.
post #3217 of 5445
Hulu+ plays on Linux. Why can't Netflix figure it out?
post #3218 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

Hulu+ plays on Linux. Why can't Netflix figure it out?

DRM .. ?? Hastings at one point commented they would never use anything without DRM ..

although I've never tried it with a Linux distro, take a look at :

http://www.compholio.com/netflix-desktop/
post #3219 of 5445
Actually I really don't care to run Netflix on Linux but occasionally I forget and click on a title which brings up the "it doesn't run on your platform" page when I meant to click on the Info link. Gotta remember that big companies run by semi-computer illiterate CEOS get dog and pony shows from all kinds of companies telling them they losing billions from piracy and hence need to buy their service or product. biggrin.gif
post #3220 of 5445
I was doing a comparison of HBO Go and Netflix Super HD streaming rates on my Apple TV and got the router stats of the first 10 minutes of Arrow (Final Episode of Season One) which I thought I would post here as well.

You can see the 10 minute average is 881 KBytes/sec (7048 Mbps). This is very consistent with other Netflix Super HD titles I have tried.

We watched this Episode on Blu-Ray last night (now we can start watch Season 2 from DirecTV DVR!) and I have to say I was impressed by the Netflix Super HD video quality looking at it today. No it is not Blu-Ray - but it is still very good and if I hadn't bought the Blu-Ray a few weeks ago to catch up I would have been very happy watching on Netflix.

Touch wood - but I still seem to get reliable connections to Super HD streams on my Comcast connection.

post #3221 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

You can see the 10 minute average is 881 KBytes/sec (7048 Mbps). This is very consistent with other Netflix Super HD titles I have tried.

Remember that at the end of those 10 minutes you've received the 10 minutes of video and sound plus however much unplayed video and sound is in the player's buffer. If we assume that the real average bit rate was Netflix's advertised 5800 Kbps + 192 Kbps for 5.1 sound = 5992 Kbps then there was approximately 1 minute 45 seconds of content in the buffer.
post #3222 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Remember that at the end of those 10 minutes you've received the 10 minutes of video and sound plus however much unplayed video and sound is in the player's buffer. If we assume that the real average bit rate was Netflix's advertised 5800 Kbps + 192 Kbps for 5.1 sound = 5992 Kbps then there was approximately 1 minute 45 seconds of content in the buffer.

Yes I assumed there was some buffer - thanks for doing the calculation.

I also wonder what 5.1 Dolby Digital (not +) sound data rate is for the Apple TV which might change the calculation slightly.
post #3223 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

I also wonder what 5.1 Dolby Digital (not +) sound data rate is for the Apple TV which might change the calculation slightly.

It would, but probably only a little. I haven't heard that bit rate quoted anywhere; it could actually be higher, since DD+ is supposedly more than twice as efficient as basic DD.
post #3224 of 5445
Another thing to consider is what SuperHD content you are watching. I watched "Redemption" all the way through last night without one "fuzzy" screen. But "Redemption" is 2:35:1 so there is actually less data to encode than a 1:77:1 movie so probably takes less bitrate to show in SuperHD.
post #3225 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

Another thing to consider is what SuperHD content you are watching. I watched "Redemption" all the way through last night without one "fuzzy" screen. But "Redemption" is 2:35:1 so there is actually less data to encode than a 1:77:1 movie so probably takes less bitrate to show in SuperHD.

I understand that would make sense - but my experience is the 10 minute average seems to be content independent with most Super HD at around 7 Mbps over the first 10 minutes.

A few weeks ago I captured the router stats for the first 10 minutes of Thor (also 2.35 : 1) and the average was 878 KB/s (7024 Mbps)

post #3226 of 5445
Technically they only need to both with the actually frame and not the black bars surrounding unless there are legacy players that would have trouble with it. Last night watching an 1:77:1 movie it was changing a bitrates quite a bit from scene to scene. As usually if you pause or there is a rebuffering (I had one session of that) the first few seconds look like a 240p frame then go to a very grainy HD frame then finally to the pristine HD 1080p frame.
post #3227 of 5445
I'm just totally frustrated with Netflix ever since Super HD went live for me. During prime time, I almost never hold a stream in decent HD quality for any length of time. I'll run the example short and it starts off at 5800 and will quickly goes down well under 1000. Some times are better than others, but it's always annoying watching at night. I never used to have any problems before it went to Super HD for me. I don't know that there's actually a connection or just coincidence, but my connection is more than fast enough and my other streaming services work fine.
post #3228 of 5445
Maybe it's something with my Apple TV. I was just running the example short concurrently on my ATV third gen and second gen iPad. The ATV on was running at 750-1150 kbps while the iPad was running at 3000. That seems weird to me.
post #3229 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by met_fan View Post

Maybe it's something with my Apple TV. I was just running the example short concurrently on my ATV third gen and second gen iPad. The ATV on was running at 750-1150 kbps while the iPad was running at 3000. That seems weird to me.

I just tried my ATV3 on the 11 minute Netflix example and it buffered for a while before showing the screen at 5800 Kbps then immediately dropped back into a low resolution SD before slowly ramping back to 5800 Kbps after 1.5 minutes. Stayed at 5800 Kbps for the remainder of the video. My router graph showed the streaming speed with a peak of 13.3 Mbps with an average 6.6 Mbps for the 11 minute duration.

My iPad is the first generation model and the Netflix video maxed out at 1750 Kbps. The router showed a peak 9.8 Mbps with the average at 1.3 Mbps.

My ATV3 is ethernet wired not WIFI.
post #3230 of 5445
My Sony 1100 BD player starts at 5800 and stays there essentially forever.
post #3231 of 5445
As I have reported before - since Super HD was opened for all my Apple TV (3rd generation) typically starts at 5800 kbps drops back to either 3850/3000 kbps for around 20-30 seconds and then goes back to 5800 kbps and stays there. On my router I can see an initial burst at full speed (16 Mbps from Comcast in my case) as it adjusts the speed and presumably fills the buffer. My 10 minute average is 7560 kbps - as you can see it looks like the entire clip was pretty much downloaded with a couple of minutes to spare - so it is likely the 11 minute average would be lower as seen by Mr. G

This behavior is pretty consistent and independent of time of day for me.

Before Super HD on Comcast it would always start at 3850 kbps and stay there.

My Apple TV is hard wired,

post #3232 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

My Sony 1100 BD player starts at 5800 and stays there essentially forever.

+1. A really excellent Netflix streamer.

However, my WD TV Live for the last two nights at the same times as the Sony could not get beyond 720p. Previously the WD reached 5800 without problem. Hard to understand this inconsistent behavior.
post #3233 of 5445
Well my ATV Saturday started Eureka at that horrible 240 SD crap. I restarted the stream at it was fine. Then this afternoon towards the last 2 minutes of Transformers Original it dropped down to that utter worthless 240 SD crap again. I rolled the stream back about 30 seconds and it was fine. So was everything else I watched this evening.

I think the ATV buffer on both SD & HD content is only a minute according to my switch when the LEDs stop blinking. On the PS3 SD & regular HD the buffer is 4 minutes and on Super HD it is around 2 minutes.

That concerns me as the bigger the buffer the more reliable the stream is during congestion. If anyone can confirm the buffer for the ATV thanks. Also the ATV is hardwired.
post #3234 of 5445
Also how do you get that bandwidth interface in the router. The Netgear WNDR4300 UI sucks and tells you crap. Actually the LEDs don't even blink on the router so if it was not for the switch LEDs I would not even know it is even working at all. It is a real PITA to diagnostic WiFi as none of those LEDs blink either.
post #3235 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

Also how do you get that bandwidth interface in the router. The Netgear WNDR4300 UI sucks and tells you crap. Actually the LEDs don't even blink on the router so if it was not for the switch LEDs I would not even know it is even working at all. It is a real PITA to diagnostic WiFi as none of those LEDs blink either.

I have an Asus RT-N66U

Many of the Asus routers allow you to select Traffic Manager - Traffic Monitor - Real-Time/Last 24 hours/Daily/Monthly

Edit - if your routers stock firmware doesn't support this you can also try some of the open source firmware (Tomato, DDWRT etc). Before I got the Asus I used Tomato on a number Linksys routers and was able to monitor real-time bandwidth (as a side benefit Tomato was also more stable than the Linksys firmware).
Edited by undecided - 11/3/13 at 10:30pm
post #3236 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

Well my ATV Saturday started Eureka at that horrible 240 SD crap. I restarted the stream at it was fine. Then this afternoon towards the last 2 minutes of Transformers Original it dropped down to that utter worthless 240 SD crap again. I rolled the stream back about 30 seconds and it was fine. So was everything else I watched this evening.

I think the ATV buffer on both SD & HD content is only a minute according to my switch when the LEDs stop blinking. On the PS3 SD & regular HD the buffer is 4 minutes and on Super HD it is around 2 minutes.

That concerns me as the bigger the buffer the more reliable the stream is during congestion. If anyone can confirm the buffer for the ATV thanks. Also the ATV is hardwired.

michaeltscott calculated the buffer as approximately 1 minute 45 seconds from my graph of Arrow (Final Episode of Season One) on my Apple TV

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1089285/netflix-streaming-quality/3210#post_23878698

The Example Short Graph also seems to indicate the buffer is at least a couple of minutes - remember this is an 11 minute clip and the graph shows first 10 minutes.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1089285/netflix-streaming-quality/3210#post_23906682

All Super HD on an Apple TV
post #3237 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by undecided View Post

I have an Asus RT-N66U

Many of the Asus routers allow you to select Traffic Manager - Traffic Monitor - Real-Time/Last 24 hours/Daily/Monthly
Thanks. I do love my Netgear WNDR4300L as wifi and wired connections are reliable I just wished the LED's blinked and the router UI did not look so dated with no real features for seeing bandwidth. Also do the LED's blink on the Asus?
post #3238 of 5445
I just look at the LED's on my monoprice switch and the ATV stops blinking at exactly 1 minute left. My PS3 SD & regular HD it stops at 4 minutes and Super HD varies from around 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 minutes.

As I said I don't know if the LED's tell the entire story. I know I can pull the Ethernet cable but it is a pain as my switch is on my desk taped down where it is hard to pull the cable. The ATV is next to my TV in the back and my PS3 is in the closet way on the top.
post #3239 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

Also do the LED's blink on the Asus?

They do - but they are in a different room so I don't pay any attention to them.

See also my edit to this post http://www.avsforum.com/t/1089285/netflix-streaming-quality/3210#post_23908374

Edit - if your routers stock firmware doesn't support this you can also try some of the open source firmware (Tomato, DDWRT etc). Before I got the Asus I used Tomato on a number Linksys routers and was able to monitor real-time bandwidth (as a side benefit Tomato was also more stable than the Linksys firmware).
post #3240 of 5445
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddice View Post

I just look at the LED's on my monoprice switch and the ATV stops blinking at exactly 1 minute left. My PS3 SD & regular HD it stops at 4 minutes and Super HD varies from around 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 minutes.

As I said I don't know if the LED's tell the entire story. I know I can pull the Ethernet cable but it is a pain as my switch is on my desk taped down where it is hard to pull the cable. The ATV is next to my TV in the back and my PS3 is in the closet way on the top.

I am not sure if the LEDs will tell the entire story. Look at the Example Short Graph http://www.avsforum.com/t/1089285/netflix-streaming-quality/3210#post_23906682

There is still network activity for the last few minutes - but it is at a low level. I am pretty sure (but not certain!) nothing else on my network was active at this time
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